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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] The Grim Long Primer - C-c-combo uncorked!!!
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on: July 02, 2008, 11:56:27 am
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You are focussing on the chance of drawing a certain card or not, but you miss many other factors that are important as well. When considering the benefits of a certain choice over the opposite, you should be aware of every single detail in the game, not only pure math. Frankly, I cannot disagree with math (nobody can), but here I disagree with the original question that math answered to. You are asking math: "Do I have a greater chance of drawing a non-land card if..." but it is not the same as "Do I have a greater chance of winning if...". It's not simply a fact of land/non-land, so once we discovered that the % difference is so tiny we should realize that in real life there is not a right answer because the influence of other particular factors is greater...by far.
You could have an exact answer only if you know exactly what cards you have in your hand, in your graveyard, and in your deck and in play, and the same for your opponent as well. Obviously, the answer will take you sooooo long, since the math behind will be HUGE. And again, this answer perfect on paper could be wrong in real life because your opponet can react differently from what you expect him to behave (force that card or not).
So I competely miss the relevance of a 0.1%, expecially when it grows from wrong assumptions.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] The Grim Long Primer - C-c-combo uncorked!!!
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on: June 28, 2008, 05:47:02 am
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Concerning the decklist proposed in the article, I have been testing it intensely from a couple of days. I came up with the following conclusions: - merchant scroll, here, is a really bad tutor. It finds ancestral and sometimes brainstorm, in desperate situations even chain of vapor. A total of three cards, but tutorable at sorcery speed with a 1U requirement: I mean, too bad for a deck like this. When you scroll for ancestral, most of the time you'll cast it the next turn, giving your opponent a free turn, and if in your meta you find yourself looking for chain too often, then a hurkyl's recall maindeck (or a second chain) would have been better. So I moved merchant out and another land, a basic swamp, in. - imperail seal can be game-winning, but without a full set of brainstorms it's weaker, terribly weaker than previous grim long variants (obv.!). A smart opponent can guess pretty often what you searched for, and he'll try to nullify your play. I tried infernal tutor in its place. It's really strong, since it is a good topdeck card with immediate effects, it can grab multiple rituals or duresses when needed, and it is COMBO with lion's eye diamond. Now that I tried it, I would never walk back.
My two cents! -Shaman-
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Future Sight spoiled: Street Wraith - 4 of in every deck?
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on: April 28, 2007, 05:34:17 am
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The fact is that draw7s sometimes let you win the game out of nowhere. Here is where they shine so much. I doubt that a one-card cycling card will do the same when you are far away from a dominant position and you desperately want to draw the bomb you need.
I'll explain better my thoughts: in certain situations, your hopes are only certain cards: will, tutors, draw7. If you cut draw7s for wratihs, of course your power level will increase (that's math, as you pointed out); but in the situations above the same math will tell you that the odds of drawing those damned cards that will let you win the game are...well, they just decrease.
So the question is: can a storm combo deck renounce to the power to change the game out of nowhere like a draw7s does?
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Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: [27/09/06 - Italy] - MySexyGiftsForYou 1st Place
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on: September 02, 2006, 05:23:52 pm
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Hi maxx, THIS is a huge report! Congrats for your finish and your report as well. It has been a pleasure for us seeing you coming up and playing at our tournament, and I am really pleased by your win that I think is really deserved.
I hope we'll face against each other at the next tournament: this time I missed a great chance to reach the final, since I lost in the quaterfinals due to an unperfect play from my part that cost me that match.
I appreciate your work as deckbuilder and your "therotical" attitude towards the Game: an attitude that has proved to be somewhat "practical" and efficient as well, now that you took home the whole thing.
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Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Tournament data from Trento 29/01/2006 (Italy)
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on: February 08, 2006, 10:09:19 am
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Hi all, this infos refer to the first tournament of the 2006 season held by the Italian league called "Lega VIP" (Vintage Italian Project  ). On the website of our league ( www.legavip.it) you can get infos about our previous seasons 2005 and 2004 as well. Where: Trento (Italy) When: Sunday, 29th January 2006 5 matches of Swiss followed by Top8 Metagame breakdown:Players: 30 Powered: 18 Unpowered: 12 TPS UB: 3 dark TPS: 2 (TPS with Dark Confidant and Cabal Therapy in the place of Force of Will) Fish UR: 2 Oath UBG: 2 RB Control: 2 (Red and Black control/hate deck) T1C: 2 (Togless Tog) WU Tang: 2 2Land Belcher:1 Ch(i)avika: 1 ("similar" to WU fish) Control Slavery URb: 1 Drago BG: 1 Dryad Smash: 1 Madness UGR: 1 Mask BG: 1 Meandeck Gifts:1 Nat Stacker: 1 Pentastax: 1 Sligh: 1 WWb :1 (WhiteWeenie with Black splash) WWu :1 (see above, with Blue splash) Zambo: 1 (Zombie Infestation deck) Zoo: 1 Top8 decklists:1st place, Alessandro Ferrarelli, Oath UBG4 Flooded Strand 4 Forbidden Orchard 4 Wasteland 2 Island 2 Underground Sea 1 Strip Mine 1 Tropical Island 1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath 1 Razia, Boros Archangel 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 3 Null Rod 1 Crucible of Worlds 4 Brainstorm 4 Force of Will 4 Mana Drain 3 Thirst for Knowledge 2 Mana Leak 2 Misdirection 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Time Walk 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 4 Oath of Druids 1 Gaea s Blessing 1 Regrowth 1 Pernicious Deed SB: 1 Blazing Archon SB: 3 Duress SB: 2 Coffin Purge SB: 1 Cranial Extraction SB: 1 Darkblast SB: 2 Kodama of the North Tree SB: 2 Oxidize SB: 2 Woodripper SB: 1 Pernicious Deed 2nd place, Filippo Chemin, WU TANG4 Flooded Strand 4 Mishra s Factory 4 Tundra 4 Wasteland 3 Island 1 Plains 1 Strip Mine 4 Icatian Javelineers 4 Ninja of the Deep Hours 4 Stormscape Apprentice 4 Meddling Mage 3 Null Rod 4 Swords to Plowshares 4 Force of Will 4 Standstill 3 Brainstorm 3 Daze 2 Misdirection SB: 3 Umezawa s Jitte SB: 2 Kataki, War s Wage SB: 3 Seal of Cleansing SB: 3 Blue Elemental Blast SB: 2 Disrupt SB: 2 Energy Flux 3rd place, Scoz Cristiano, Control Slaver URb4 Island 4 Volcanic Island 2 Flooded Strand 2 Polluted Delta 2 Underground Sea 1 Library of Alexandria 1 Tolarian Academy 1 Pentavus 1 Sundering Titan 1 Triskelion 4 Goblin Welder 1 Black Lotus 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mana Vault 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring 1 Mindslaver 1 Tormod s Crypt 4 Brainstorm 4 Force of Will 4 Mana Drain 4 Thirst for Knowledge 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Echoing Truth 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Time Walk 1 Tinker 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Yawgmoth s Will 1 Rack and Ruin 1 Fire/Ice SB: 2 Pithing Needle SB: 2 Tormod s Crypt SB: 1 Darksteel Colossus SB: 1 Duplicant SB: 1 Engineered Explosives SB: 1 Platinum Angel SB: 1 Blue Elemental Blast SB: 1 Chain of Vapor SB: 1 Stifle SB: 1 Gorilla Shaman SB: 1 Pyroblast SB: 1 Rack and Ruin 4th place, Andrea Zanotto, T1C4 Polluted Delta 4 Underground Sea 3 [UG] Island 3 Volcanic Island 1 Flooded Strand 1 Tolarian Academy 1 Darksteel Colossus 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring 4 Accumulated Knowledge 4 Brainstorm 4 Cunning Wish 4 Force of Will 4 Mana Drain 3 Intuition 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Merchant Scroll 1 Misdirection 1 Time Walk 1 Tinker 3 Duress 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Yawgmoth s Will 1 Burning Wish 1 Recoup SB: 1 Sundering Titan SB: 1 Chain of Vapor SB: 1 Gush SB: 1 Hurkyl s Recall SB: 1 Misdirection SB: 1 Rebuild SB: 1 Darkblast SB: 1 Massacre SB: 1 Skeletal Scrying SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony SB: 1 Rack and Ruin SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast SB: 1 Shattering Pulse SB: 1 Fire/Ice 5th place, Alessandro Bonato, dark TPS4 Polluted Delta 3 Underground Sea 2 Flooded Strand 2 Island 2 Swamp 1 Library of Alexandria 1 Tolarian Academy 4 Dark Confidant 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mana Vault 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring 1 Sensei s Divining Top 4 Brainstorm 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Hurkyl s Recall 1 Mind s Desire 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Rebuild 1 Rushing River 1 Timetwister 1 Time Walk 4 Dark Ritual 4 Duress 3 Tendrils of Agony 2 Cabal Therapy 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Necropotence 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Yawgmoth s Bargain 1 Yawgmoth s Will SB: 3 Tormod s Crypt SB: 2 Pithing Needle SB: 1 Brain Freeze SB: 1 Chain of Vapor SB: 1 Echoing Truth SB: 1 Rebuild SB: 2 Darkblast SB: 2 Massacre SB: 2 Skeletal Scrying 6th place, Davide Slongo, Pentastax4 City of Brass 4 Gemstone Mine 4 Mishra s Workshop 4 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine 1 Tolarian Academy 1 Karn, Silver Golem 1 Sundering Titan 1 Triskelion 4 Goblin Welder 1 Black Lotus 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mana Vault 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring 4 Chalice of the Void 4 Smokestack 4 Tangle Wire 3 Crucible of Worlds 3 Sphere of Resistance 1 Memory Jar 1 Trinisphere 2 Seal of Cleansing 1 Balance 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Tinker 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor SB: 2 Jester s Cap SB: 2 Orb of Dreams SB: 1 Triskelion SB: 2 Seal of Cleansing SB: 2 In the Eye of Chaos SB: 2 Gorilla Shaman SB: 2 Viashino Heretic SB: 2 Choke 7th place, Paolo Zanatta, WWb6 Plains 4 Scrubland 3 Flooded Strand 3 Wasteland 2 Windswept Heath 1 Strip Mine 4 Icatian Javelineers 4 Silver Knight 4 True Believer 3 Savannah Lions 3 Weathered Wayfarer 2 Kataki, War s Wage 4 Mesmeric Fiend 1 Lotus Petal 4 AEther Vial 3 Skullclamp 4 Swords to Plowshares 2 Abolish 4 Duress SB: 3 Umezawa s Jitte SB: 4 Kami of Ancient Law SB: 3 Serenity SB: 3 Whipcorder SB: 2 Seal of Cleansing 8th place, Francesco Zanon, RB control4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Mishra s Factory 4 Swamp 4 Wasteland 3 Badlands 1 Mountain 1 Strip Mine 4 Dark Confidant 3 Mesmeric Fiend 3 Withered Wretch 3 Gorilla Shaman 3 Null Rod 1 Crucible of Worlds 4 Cabal Therapy 4 Dark Ritual 4 Duress 3 Diabolic Edict 2 Darkblast 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 2 Red Elemental Blast 1 Pyroblast SB: 2 Massacre SB: 1 Darkblast SB: 1 Diabolic Edict SB: 4 Goblin Vandal SB: 3 Rack and Ruin SB: 2 Pyroblast SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Single Card Discussion: Swiftness
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on: January 04, 2006, 12:46:24 pm
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I can't remember TPS being a deck that fights lots of counter wars during the turn of it's opponent.
That's true, but you gain the chance to steal 10 life from a crappy hand of 3 cards: fow, tendrils and swiftness/quicken. That's only a junky example, there are many situations in which a Mini Counter War of only 2 forces/drains can get you over the storm count you were waiting for. The only ability to play at instant speed your next sorcery spell is good, but not enough: the cantrip bonus will get this played, I assume, at least here in Italy where TPS is still quite common (and the mirror too).
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Single Card Discussion: Swiftness
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on: December 31, 2005, 12:47:39 pm
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It seems to be an interesting card for TPS UB, that's still played here in Italy with success. This cards seems to suite the storm mechanic very well: being a cantrip, I assume it will be used in such a combo.dec running blue.
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Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Italian Doomsday Tournament
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on: November 29, 2005, 06:43:26 pm
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So my STP is Italian.. Actually on the card it says: "Da Spade a Spighe!". One of the reasons I play with it..
Incidentally, if you translate "Da Spade, a Spighe!" back to English again you get "Swords to Ears". MaxxMatt by the way is doing a great job trying to track back these missing decklists. Just give him some time.
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Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Perche Italia
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on: October 11, 2005, 05:20:07 pm
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I am Italian and I am interested in reading a possibile answer from a Wizards employee too. I suppose it depends on some analysis of our market...anyway I assure you that Italian cards from the earlier expansions are full with mistakes  and I have always thought that they were translated by somebody who did not know the game and its rules. Anyway I can confirm Italian people are bad in English, and in the early 90s young Italian people used Enligh only at school (internet and cable tv weren't so common). I do not understand also why Portuguese cards exist, while Dutch don't, like BigMac wrote above. Or Russian (9th edition is the first edition in Russian). P.S: my English must sound rude but...hey...I am Italian  please pardon me.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: The Return of TPS: A short Waterbury Report (*2nd*)
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on: May 06, 2005, 04:38:08 am
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Great report and great result. Congratulations. I read the Time Spiral/Frantich Search thing, and I am convinced, even if I do not run them in my TPS, that these two cards are pretty strong, for all the reasons you wrote. Including them both or not is a personal choice and I don't want to discuss this choice since your explanation is good and you have proved to achieve great results with this decklist. Anyway, I'd like to tell you my personal point of view about the famous Library. You say the Library is not very useful because you can use it only when you have a 7-cards hand, and when you have a 7-cards hand you are going to win your game anyway: that's true. But you forget one thing: when you start your game you have 7 cards in your hand, and a first turn Library can decide games you are not supposed to win (this happens against wasteland-less decks). Last Sunday I won a tournament with TPS winning something like 6 games thanks to a first turn LoA (ok, I was lucky  ), that against decks like T1T (greenless atog, pretty common here) is a winning card, maybe more powerful than any other broken card in the decklist.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Article] Top Vintage decklists and info Version 1.1
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on: March 10, 2005, 05:49:12 am
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First of all, great work!
If you want to add a new control list to your comprehensive collection, here you are a Landstill deck (UWR) that is doing really well in Italy in the actual metagame. The deck is piloted by Danilo "Benga" Benvenuti.
1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Ruby 3 Island 3 Tundra 3 Volcanic Island 2 Flooded Strand 4 Polluted Delta 1 Library of Alexandria 1 Strip Mine 4 Wasteland 4 Standstill 1 Time Walk 1 Ancestral Recall 4 Brainstorm 4 Mana Drain 3 Mana Leak 2 Misdirection 4 Force of Will 2 Chain of Vapor 2 Fire/Ice 2 Engineered Explosives 2 Crucible of Worlds 3 Decree of Justice
SIDEBOARD
3 Arcane Laboratory 2 Swords to Plowshares 1 Engineered Explosives 3 Rack and Ruin 1 Pyroblast 3 Chalice of the Void 2 Red Elemental Blast
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Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / [VIDEOS] Waterbury Feature Match thread
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on: February 07, 2005, 10:58:48 am
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I saw the two videos. But expecially in the first, it seems that the guy in front of the camera is playing a little slower than allowed. Am I wrong? It's too early to call a judge since it is the first round, but I usually get annoyed in seeing my opponents looking one hundred times the same 4 cards in their hands without doing ANYTHING for 4 long minutes, maybe more.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Optimizing TPS
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on: December 31, 2004, 06:37:34 am
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Incipit: Nobody here is claiming he owns the Truth, at least I suppose. Magic is a game and I consider for this reason that there are not so many obvious choices when building a deck since a lot depends on your style of play. Like Xman wrote a couple of posts above, we are not supposed to agree on every card choice, but the discussion can force people to doubt about their previous convinctions and try the new ideas on the field...then judge them worth of consideration or not. I, like many, have found Windfall extremely poor. I considered the idea to cut it long ago, replacing it with the fact or fiction I used to side it in its place almost in every match. Even the Tinker + Jar option, largely discuss on this thread, is winning me the same amount of games I lose because I can't use it properly (tinker+jar in the same hand, and no brainstorms...I ensure it happens really often). The release of this new toy called Gifts Ungiven was God-send, for this deck we play, since it brings more skill in and thins the luck factor. Why do you draw 7 random card if you can get 2 broken cards out of 4? A random hand of 7 new cards can have, on average, 2 broken cards, but the draw7 spell is sorcery speed. Right now I am testing this configurations of one-side and both-side drawer: timetwister timespiral fact or fiction gifts ungiven 2x cunning wish 2x rebuild I tried to cut the jar+tinker, playing in their places the Spiral (a draw7 more one-sided then others, since it untaps your lands and eat the graveyards) and the second Cunning Wish, that I found really useful and can get another 2 drawers in the side (Skeletal Scrying and Plagiarize --- that's techy enough to work, expecially in the mirror). The inclusion of Spiral, in my opinion, can fill the blank space left by the departure of the Jar, with no harm since it can be also pitch to Force of Will in the early game. Moreover, the fact I do not play tinker maindeck anymore, leaves another slot open, so I can assume to play one more "treath" (cunning wish in my case). About the undergound sea matter, I agree with rozetta completely. When I read about cutting one/two seas I was a bit surprised, then i tried this land mana base: 2 seas 3 islands 2 swamps 6 fecth (4 delta + 2 flooded) 1 tolarian academy In my initial testing this has proved good over any expectations. Just consider, when playing against any opponent but the mirror and T1T, you always sfetch for a basics in the early game, and a hand with a sea and a mox only can be a risk if you have your opponent packing a full set of wastelands and you have only 14 lands. My tests proved me I was rather satisfied and the game is more relaxed: you do not have to worry about choices you previously had to take, at the cost of a minimum color screw* largely compensated by unwasteble targets. *= i refer to thug's considerations about the second swamp, for example. I agree with him completely, but if you run only 2 seas the second swamp is less optional then before. I hope to have been of any help 
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Optimizing TPS
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on: December 29, 2004, 01:48:06 pm
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At first, I was one among the players that did not like the wishes (cunning wish, I mean). Then, some of my friends convinced me to try it, at least in our playtesting. The result is that I can't play the deck WITHOUT it now, since I learned how many things you can do about it. I nearly never use the wish to get that damned thing called brain freeze: but it still wins game for me, getting me that skeletal I was desperately looking for, or that beb I was hoping to have to sack that painful pyrostatic pillar before going off, or that misdirection I was willing to play to force my bargain through, or....well, you catched my point.
---
About phele's post, I do really like the "burning wish idea": as phele pointed put, that card has actually a strong interaction with the gifts ungiven new style of the deck....burning + tendrils + 2 bombs (yawgmoth's will and duress, for example) = I am going to win anyway, no matter what your choice is. However, it sadly requires a third color. The mana base phele proposed is quite strong since you still have 4 basics but...I fear the lonely red mana source is not enough. I am convinced of this since I have played TPS UBr for a couple of months and the one red mana producer (except lotus, ruby and petal) was not enough, really, to cast even only one red spell (as wheel is) reliably.
I fear TWO "red mana lands" are required....at the cost of one swamp, maybe, looking at phele's list.
This said, good work people! This thread is really good.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Optimizing TPS
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on: December 27, 2004, 05:20:24 pm
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Your opponents can make mistakes since they don't know what you are holding within your hands while resolving a Gifts. They will make the PERFECT choice considering only what they are aware of: permanents, spells on the stack, but not the cards in your hand. For this simple reason, sometimes, this PERFECT choice is very far from the BEST choice! In this, IMHO, consists the real power of the card.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Optimizing TPS
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on: December 27, 2004, 03:24:40 pm
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Taking advantages from opponents' mistakes is the key to win every match: Gifts Ungiven (like Fact or Fiction) gives your opponents the chance to do these mistakes.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Optimizing TPS
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on: December 26, 2004, 08:19:05 am
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The main reason to play walk in almost any combo deck is that it's just like playing with a 59 card deck instead off a 60 card deck, although sometimes it will make mulling harder (ie. you don't know the card your going to get from walk) but playing with a 59 card deck instead off 60 is just good times in combo...
I do completely agree. That's really why Rebuild > Hurkyl's, no matter how many chalices/spheres you are going. I understand the sphere of resistance issues, but Rebuild cycles itself when you do not need it providing you an extra card: in these cases it means you play a 59 cards deck (58 if you have walk). About the second tendrils, I assume 2 is the best number for the following reasons: - easier mirror match (see above what Rasmus Nielsen wrote) - better chance to get your jar working good (I agrre with virtual) - BETTER DRAWING ENGINE: your deck wins most of the matches with Yawgmoth's Will, Necropotence, Yawgmoth's Bargain: considering only the last two, tendrils of agony gives you the chance to resolve your game in two turns instead of one (two minor tendrils instead of a big one), and that is pretty common if you have not a lot of mana open and you don't want to take big risks in winning a game you HAVE to win. - better chance to play Necropotence without big risks: you can set aside any number of cards without warring about "drawing" your single tendrils and then seeing it discarded out of the game by a resolved duress... P.S: pardon my bad English too... 
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Results] - Padova (Italy) 12/12 - 65 players
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on: December 20, 2004, 12:11:13 pm
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@Shaman: Did the Deep Analysis and the Fact in the winner list work out? Has Padova been such a control heavy meta that there is more need for so many one-side-, semi-perfect-draw-options.
Hi Phele, I can't say anything useful about that Deep Analysis, since I did not have a chance to see Andrea playing or to talk with him about this card. The meta was largely dominated by control: a lot of unpowered fish (most of them Ur, a few of them Uw) and control decks (Oath/Hulk/T1T and some 4CC), with some appearance at the higher tables of combo decks (TPS and other tendrils-build, since dragon-decks were mostly unpowered) and welder MUD. I did run a deck very similar to the winner's deck (only one card different maindeck, deep analysis, since I had chrome mox in its place) and I did realize how STRONG fof and gifts ungiven are maindeck...they are really awesome! I won a couple of games thanks to gifts ungiven, that gave me the necessary protection when I needed it or the necessary bombs to close the game. I strongly suggest this inclusion to any TPS player, and at the moment a lot of combo players here in Italy adopt this card that has proved to be rather good, even more than expected. Discussing the Deep Analysis, I still have scepticism about it, because of its sorcery-speed: probably it fits the deck perfectly for a control metagame, but it isn't the perfect choice in general...I can't say more since I nver tested it seriously.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Results] - Padova (Italy) 12/12 - 65 players
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on: December 19, 2004, 06:36:04 pm
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I assume WW is in the top8 due to some easy pairirngs, but I am not sure about that and I do not know the player who achieved this results so I can't say you more on that. I only know he faced in the swiss a friend of mine with UB mask, and his SToPs completely smashed my friend's noughts both games.
Sarcatog is one of the two 'togs of the deck we Italians call T1T (Type 1 Tog). It was first piloted by Lorenzo Fedeli, one of the best Italian player, and, believe me or not, that has proved to be SO good (at least in our metagame) that it is now a consolidated presence in the deck.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Results] - Padova (Italy) 12/12 - 65 players
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on: December 19, 2004, 08:28:45 am
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I post in this section of the forum since I do not have access to the tournament forum.
Last Sunday 12th of December we had a tournament here in Italy in Padova with 65 players.
Here you are the decklists!
Decklists of each top8 player (sideboard in italics):
Andrea Giorgini, first place: 1 black lotus 1 mox emerald 1 mox jet 1 mox sapphire 1 mox pearl 1 mox ruby 1 mana crypt 1 mana vault 1 sol ring 1 lotus petal 4 dark ritual 4 polluted delta 1 flooded strand 4 underground sea 2 island 2 swamp 1 tolarian academy 2 tendrils of agony 1 mind's desire 1 gifts ungiven 1 cunning wish 4 brainstorm 4 force of will 1 ancestral recall 1 time walk 1 rebuild 1 echoig truth 1 timetwister 1 deep analysis 1 fact or fiction 1 tinker 1 memory jar 1 demonic tutor 1 mystical tutor 1 vampiric tutor 1 yawgmoth's will 1 yawgmoth's bargain 1 necropotence 4 duress 2 misdirection 1 daze 1 skeletal scrying 1 chain of vapor 1 hurkyl's recall 1 rebuild 1 rushing river 1 tormod's crypt 1 engineered explosives 1 darksteel colossus 1 cranial extraction 1 gilded drake 1 hydroblast 1 ebony charm
Mario Larcher, second place: 1 akroma, angel of wrath 2 island 1 engineered explosives 1 gaea's blessing 1 strip mine 1 time walk 1 tinker 1 swamp 1 demonic tutor 1 yawgmoth's will 1 ancestral recall 1 black lotus 1 mox jet 1 mox sapphire 1 mox ruby 1 sol ring 1 mana crypt 1 darksteel colossus 1 lotus petal 1 vampiric tutor 4 force of will 4 mana drain 4 duress 4 brainstorm 4 polluted delta 2 wasteland 4 accumulated knowledge 2 underground sea 4 forbidden orchard 2 tropical island 4 oath of druids 2 intuition 2 spawning pit 1 woodripper 3 stifle 1 phantom nishoba 2 morphling 3 tormod's crypt 2 misdirection 1 rushing river
Alessandro Oppo, third place: 4 polluted delta 1 flooded strand 4 underground sea 3 volcanic island 3 island 1 swamp 1 black lotus 1 mox emerald 1 mox jet 1 mox sapphire 1 mox pearl 1 mox ruby 1 sol ring 4 force of will 4 mana drain 4 duress 4 acumulated knowledge 2 deep analysis 4 brainstorm 4 cunning wish 1 demonic tutor 1 mystical tutor 1 ancestral recall 1 time walk 1 yawgmoth's will 3 intuition 1 engineered explosives 1 sarcatog 1 psychatog 1 fact or fiction 1 red elemental blast 1 pyroblast 2 engineered explosives 2 annul 1 flying 1 snuff out 1 firestorm 1 rushing river 1 coffin purge 2 rack and ruin 1 hurkyl's recall
Marco Leoni, fourth place: 4 mishra's workshop 3 wasteland 1 strip mine 1 tolarian academy 2 polluted delta 1 flooded strand 3 volcanic island 4 island 1 black lotus 1 mox emerald 1 mox jet 1 mox sapphire 1 mox ruby 1 mana crypt 1 mana vault 1 sol ring 4 trinisphere 4 smokestack 3 chalice of the void 1 duplicant 4 goblin welder 2 karn, silver golem 2 sundering titan 1 darksteel colossus 1 memory jar 1 wheel of fortune 2 triskelion 2 crucible of the worlds 2 thirst for knowledge 1 ancestral recall 1 tinker 1 time walk 2 rack and ruin 1 viashino heretic 1 hurkyl's recall 2 blue elemental blast 1 duplicant 3 red elemental blast 1 sword of fire and ice 1 razormane masticore 2 spawning pit 1 jester's cap
Paolo Zanatto, fifth place: 4 savannah lions 4 icatian javeliners 14 plains 1 strip mine 4 wasteland 4 swords to plowshares 4 aether vial 4 skullclamp 4 soltari priest 4 weathered wayfarer 3 abolish 4 silver knight 4 samurai of the pale curtain 1 lotus petal 1 chrome mox 3 serenity 3 aura of silence 2 maze of ith 2 sword of fire and ice 3 rule of law 2 chalice of the void
Nicholas Baxter, sixth place: 1 mind twist 1 sarcatog 1 psychatog 4 force of will 4 mana drain 3 intuition 4 cunning wish 4 brainstorm 1 ancestral recall 1 time walk 1 engineered explosives 4 accumultaed knowledge 2 deep analysis 1 demonic tutor 1 mystical tutor 3 duress 1 yawgmoth's will 1 black lotus 1 mox sapphire 1 mox emerald 1 mox ruby 1 mox jet 1 mox pearl 1 sol ring 2 polluted delta 3 flooded strand 4 underground sea 3 volcanic island 1 tropical island 3 island 1 shallow grave 1 gush 1 red elemental blast 1 shattering pulse 1 rack and ruin 1 hurkyl's recall 2 annul 1 fire/ice 1 firestorm 1 fact or fiction 1 snuff out 1 berserk 1 rushing river 1 engineered explosives
Luca Lo Bianco, seventh place: 1 black lotus 1 mox emerald 1 mox jet 1 mox sapphire 1 mox pearl 1 mox ruby 1 mana crypt 1 library of alexandria 1 sol ring 1 lotus petal 4 dark ritual 4 polluted delta 1 flooded strand 4 underground sea 3 island 1 swamp 1 tolarian academy 2 tendrils of agony 1 mind's desire 1 gifts ungiven 1 cunning wish 4 brainstorm 4 force of will 1 ancestral recall 1 time walk 2 rebuild 1 echoig truth 1 timetwister 1 skeletal scrying 1 tinker 1 memory jar 1 demonic tutor 1 mystical tutor 1 vampiric tutor 1 yawgmoth's will 1 yawgmoth's bargain 1 necropotence 4 duress 3 misdirection 2 hurkyl's recall 1 fact or fiction 2 tormod's crypt 1 engineered explosives 1 darksteel colossus 1 blue elemental blast 1 hydroblast 2 echoing decay 1 ebony charm
Michele Frasson, eighth place: 3 worldgorger dragon 1 verdant force 1 ambassador laquatus 1 scriveneer 4 bazaar of baghdad 3 animate dead 2 necromancy 4 squee, goblin nabob 4 force of will 3 stifle 1 intuition 1 lim-dul's vault 2 cunning wish 4 deep analysis 1 time walk 1 ancestral recall 1 entomb 1 vampiric tutor 1 mystical tutor 1 demonic tutor 1 crucible of the worlds 1 mox sapphire 1 sol ring 1 mox jet 1 black lotus 1 mox emerald 1 strip mine 1 mox ruby 4 underground sea 2 tropical island 1 swamp 1 island 4 polluted delta 1 crop rotation 1 intuition 1 stroke of genius 1 blue elemental blast 1 naturalise 1 chain of vapor 1 hurkyl's recall 2 tormod's crypt 1 engineered explosives 2 chalice of the void 1 caller of the claw 2 verdant force
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25
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Eternal Formats / Creative / TPS the evolution
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on: November 15, 2004, 06:15:50 am
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1 Echoing Truth (as you've said, can get rid of many thing in one shot, and it's not even targeted, bye bye pristine angel)
If I am not wrong this is the text of Echoing Truth: "Return target nonland permanent and all other permanents with the same name as that permanent to their owners’ hands."So it does target, or so it seems. I can't catch the point about Pristine Angel. Anyway, thanks all for this precoius discussion about the deck I do play. In the last tournament I played it I went undefeated through the swiss and placed 6° due to a nightmare match against turbo-Oath. I do believe the red splash does its job properly, and my tests confirm the mana base that has been suiggested works really well.
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26
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Eternal Formats / Creative / TPS the evolution
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on: November 10, 2004, 06:29:04 am
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Time Walk is God-send with Necro in play since you do not have to bother about duress. It is also a random card drawer and a nice way to untap your mana before going off. I would not cut it.
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27
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Brainstorming] Perfecting Tendrils combo builds.
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on: October 24, 2004, 05:22:03 am
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@ruken: a friend of mine tested Gush in TPS U/B, but he told me he was not satisified by this card at all. I have not have tested it yet, so I cannot say anything about it. About the Skeletal matter, I still consider it a GREAT sideboard card against Control and the mirror, since it is: - a great topdeck card when you have plenty of mana; - an instant drawer you can play EOT; - a drawer that is immune to Misdirection; - you can always find cards in your graveyard you can put out of the game (fecthlands, etc.). I am loving Skeletal against 4CControl a lot. Your porpouse in this game is to cast with success a key spell, that often is Necro/Bargain. Skeletal, somewhat, as I told before, can be considered an instant Bargain you can do EOT without drawbacks. Obviously X-spell aren't generally good in a combo deck, but as I told before I consider it a huge weapon only against Control and a few other archetypes.
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28
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Eternal Formats / Creative / UBr tog
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on: October 21, 2004, 02:20:16 pm
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The reason why you play 3 intuitions is that with 3 of them in the deck you can see earlier the one you need (the first): resolve intuition and then go nuts. That seems fair enough.
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29
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Brainstorming] Perfecting Tendrils combo builds.
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on: October 21, 2004, 07:58:32 am
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In a TPS-like build, with 4x FoW and 4x Duress and some random bouncer (plus Cunning Wish), I would strongly suggest the inclusion of Skeletal Scrying (one or two, even if I saw Thug's list with 3 of them) in the sideboard. They are really strong against control and you can define them as an "instant-bargain". Removing some random card like lands from the graveyard is not a problem (you even get a better effect after Twister/Spiral), and you can refill your hand. Maybe 3 Skeletal are too many, but 2 seems to be the right number, IMHO.
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30
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Brainstorming] Perfecting Tendrils combo builds.
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on: October 13, 2004, 10:56:11 am
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Good work, I am really interested in this topic and I'll keep my eyes upon it. I really appreciate your brief analisys and I agrre with your conclusions. The only point I have to stress out in this brainstorming is that combo-builds of tendrils-based-decks are probably much more metagame-dependant than any other T1 deck. I will explain my statement.
I used to play 4 (even 5, the mana base was the same) color TPS, and my list was something like the following (obvious things omitted):
mana: 4 gemstone, 4 cob, 2 delta, 3 sea, 5 mox, 1 petal, 1 otus, 1 vault, 1 crypt, 4 rituals
protection: 4 duress, 4 fow, 1 rebuild, 1 chain (1 echoing truth)
draw7: wheel, twister, windfall
So I did not run consultation, crop rotation, LED, chrome mox (some of the other broken things you listed above). I considered anyway my list to be rather good, and with that list I and many other people here in Italy achieved good results, since it was really strong against a huge part of the field.
One day, sadly, people here in Italy started playing mono brown or however artifact based decks: this means at least 4 trinisphere, very often 4 sphere of resistance, 4 tangle wire, 4 smokestack, 2 or 3 crucible...nowadays, when you go to a big tournament, you would surely face one of this deck (or a deck very similar to this, based on an heavy and fast lock) twice or thrice in a 7 round swiss, expecially if you play in the high tables.
In this metagame, running the deck I used to run before is quite dangerous...I would say VERY dangerous. As a matter of fact, you cannot compete against turn one trinisphere or a turn one crucible WITHOUT force of will, so they are a must in the Italian metagame, I would say. So they are a natural and necessary inclusion. Sadly, a colorful but fragile mana base is another weak point: from this statement many players started playing basics, and so here you are the TPS ( UB mana base )deck.
Obviously TPS UB is much more a control deck if compared to draw7 or even the 4 color TPS, but it is a combo deck that is reliable enough to compete in our current metagame: the others are not.
If we talk about goldfishing, yeah, many other decks are stronger. But we are talking about the BEST build of the deck, not the FASTER.
I would be very cautios in considering one deck as the best over one other, as it is only a metagame call.
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