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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Archetype]Vial Goblins
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on: November 10, 2008, 07:52:18 pm
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I see the merits of Thoughtseize, but I disagree about cutting down Vial and Chalice to 3. Either you play 4 of those or none at all.
Vial goes well with the mana denial package of Waste/Strip, and dances around countermagic, and helps you reach the higher curve of Goblins (3CC and up). Because of this high curve, I think Chalice can be best utilized. Whenever I play it, I am not worried about plopping down a Chalice for 1 and/or 2, because I know that it would hurt them more than me.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Archetype]Vial Goblins
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on: November 09, 2008, 06:57:37 am
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I have also been testing Goblins in MWS. It's not really reliable, but it's a start to get to feel how the deck operates in Vintage. To add to the discussion, here are the things I knock myself over.
1. Aside from Turn 1 Lackey and Turn 2 Earwig, the deck really needs a powerful Turn 1-2 play to keep in step. What's the best one: Chalice, Null Rod, Thorn of Amethyst, or something else? 2. Vial goes with the mana denial aspect, since you'll be sacrificing those Wastes/Strip. However, sometimes sacrificing lands slow you down more, especially when Vial isn't in play. Is it worth it? 3. Oath has always been one of the biggest problems of Goblins. Is splashing green for SB Krosan Grips needed? Keep with RB and rely on Weirdings/Squads? Or just suck it up?
Mants, I'm iffy over the Mad Auntie and SGC as well. Aggro and aggro-control aren't really the decks which you should have problems with, so I would suggest dropping those in favor of the 4th Squad and, uh... A 2nd Piledriver?
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Goblins in the current metagame
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on: September 27, 2008, 07:33:54 am
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Not-So-Considered SB:
Chalice of the Void - Though we have Vials, investing mana for Chalice for 1 and up isn't that good, since we are blowing up some of their lands (Wastes, Strips). I rather cast a Lackey/Piledriver, than invest mana for Chalice @ 1.
The point of Chalice is for Chalice at 0, to compliment the Waste/Strip package in mana denial, coupled with Vial to keep tempo while using your own land drops to kill theirs.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Goblins in the current metagame
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on: September 26, 2008, 08:42:02 am
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Another point to discuss, I think.. Is Ringleader really worth it? Especially in builds packing Waste/Strip, It's really difficult to ramp up to 4 mana to cast this guy. Sure, it's sometimes a Recall with a 2/2 body attached, but there are times when it just sits there in your hand helpless. Upping Vial to 4 also cuts it off from non-Ringleader Goblins. I wonder if it could be replaced by the much easier to cast Goblin Recruiter, since most of the time, when casting Ringleader, I hope to draw some specific Goblin with it.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Goblins in the current metagame
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on: September 25, 2008, 06:50:38 am
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What's your gameplan against Oath? If they get it out early, it would be such an uphill climb, especially the Akroma + Hellkite versions. Relying on Earwig Squad isn't such a good plan.
Splash green for Krosan Grips out of the SB?
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Goblins in the current metagame
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on: September 23, 2008, 09:27:35 am
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Is Vial still a good card in Vintage Goblins? It seems too slow... Or has the format slowed down for Goblins to accommodate it again? I agree that if you're going to run Vial, running Waste/Strip maximizes it.
Leyline of the Void isn't MD material anymore, probably replaced by Chalice of the Void.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Fold into Aether
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on: August 22, 2008, 09:02:02 am
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That's so much work to put a creature into play. And besides, what creature do you have in mind? It should win you the game right away, since you'll be taking some time to set up to put it into play.
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Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Meadbert Manaless Ichorid Primer
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on: July 30, 2008, 10:03:51 pm
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But that's a pretty old thread. I'm still waiting for someone to start a Mana'd Ichorid thread - I probably can't because all I have as experience for the deck are MWS games. I can say that it's pretty consistent though, arguably moreso than Manaless Ichorid. Being more vulnerable to countermagic is a trade-off that I'm comfortable to make if I get consistency and less reliance on Bazaar in return.
I have as DR targets in the Mana'd build, FKZ (I just love that guy) and Eternal Witness. Getting back a Breakthrough is hot. I'm switching Witness for Angel of Despair every once in a while though, because of the randomness in MWS (e.g. Ensnaring Bridge, Solitary Confinement, etc.)
So, yeah. A Mana'd Ichorid thread would be cool.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: My take on Goblines
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on: July 18, 2008, 08:01:01 pm
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A few more comments:
1. It's always great to have Aether Vial, Leyline of the Void, and Thorn of Amethyst. But all in the MD? You only have 24 Goblins, which is, IMO, far too low of a number to keep the pressure on.
2. I don't like SGC in Vintage. You really don't have a reliable way to get it into play other than Lackey or Lotus. And once it hits, it's far less game-breaking than it is in Legacy. Why not Earwig Squads?
Here's where I left off on my list before I shifted to another deck. It's unpowered though, but you could just replace mana sources with Moxen/Lotus.
// Lands 4 Mountain 1 Swamp 4 Badlands 2 Taiga 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Wooded Foothills
// Creatures 4 Goblin Matron 4 Goblin Ringleader 4 Earwig Squad 1 Stingscourger 1 Goblin Sharpshooter 4 Goblin Lackey 4 Skirk Prospector 4 Goblin Warchief 4 Goblin Piledriver
// Spells 1 Lotus Petal 4 Leyline of the Void 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Crypt 4 Warren Weirding
// Sideboard SB: 4 Krosan Grip SB: 4 Chalice of the Void SB: 3 Shattering Spree SB: 4 Gempalm Incinerator
The 4 Weirdings in the MD are shifted every once in a while with the Incinerators in the SB. Depends on my mood.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: My take on Goblines
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on: July 17, 2008, 07:32:59 pm
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You can't really make sure that Stone would net you Goblins unless you play Recruiter beforehand. In that sense, post-Recruiter, I still don't see how Stone is better than Food Chain.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Is GAT dead?
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on: July 07, 2008, 02:43:47 am
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Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: GAT without Gush is... Well... Just AT. You could change it up a little and replace the engine with other draw spells and such, with a creature base of Goyf, Confidant, and Psychatog (as posted above me) but that's getting closer to a Fish core (ala Deeznoughts), which is way different and less bombastic than GAT was at its prime.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Goblin Sligh 2K8
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on: June 19, 2008, 06:54:32 am
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I think the bigger question here is to go for mana denial or not, because that plan delays Ringleader. It costs 4, and you'll be sacrificing Waste/Strip. Also, you probably won't be needing to reload your hand when your disruption is attached to bodies.
It's already mentioned that manabases are stronger now, but the mana denial plan also has a focus on blowing Moxen up. Can the opponent keep up with the clock that Goblins can put on the table, when the opponent has to fetch basics for fear of Wasteland, and with their Moxen becoming Lotus Petals when they get blown up by Hooligan after one use? I think that should be the focus.
Also, I think a thread title change is needed.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Goblin Sligh 2K8
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on: June 16, 2008, 02:12:28 am
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Nice list. That's pretty close to what I had in mind when I started the Mana Denial thread - mana disruption and a quick clock. I have just a few questions though.
Why a Mad Auntie in there? Any particular reasons? I just want to hear your opinions on it.
No Goblin Ringleaders? I see that you're keeping the mana curve low, but is the potential AR-on-a-2/2 body still not worth it?
Also, your thoughts on Warren Weirding and Krosan Grips from the SB.
I'm considering moving the Warren Weirdings from my SB to the MD, switching it up with the Gempalm Incinerators I have there because of the presence of big bodies more than ever (Goyf, Workshop beaters, etc). The Krosan Grips are solely for the Oath MU, which is just near impossible to beat when relying solely on Squads.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Mana Denial
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on: June 04, 2008, 07:16:41 am
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I was thinking of it in aggro decks too. Mana denial plus a fast clock could prove to be good, and I was thinking of a Goblins minus Leylines but with mana denial instead.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Mana Denial
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on: June 03, 2008, 05:42:48 pm
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With the restrictions of Gush, Brainstorm, and even Ponder, will mana denial play a much bigger role? To a greater extent, is mana denial now a strong enough option to be a focus of a deck, and not just a component?
Everyone's saying that Null Rod will be stronger post-restrictions. Could other mana denial cards have a big impact as well? LD such as Wasteland, Strip Mine won't be worried of Gush anymore, and Stifle could be used more aggressively to target fetchlands. Along with Null Rod, other anti-Mox cards such as Chalice of the Void, Gorilla Shaman, Goblin Vandal, etc. would make a bigger dent on the opponent's manabase. And once that hits, less Brainstorm/Ponder into more mana.
I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on this. Thanks.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Brainstorm, Flash, Gush, Scroll, and Ponder Restricted
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on: June 02, 2008, 09:08:58 am
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I like it. Deck construction is relevant again.  There has never been a time in Vintage when deck construction wasn't relevant. Decks won't start with 4 BS, 4 Ponder, 4 Merchant Scroll, 4 Gush, 4 FoW anymore (plus Moxen, Lotus, recall, lands, that's already half a deck).
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Goblin Sligh 2K8
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on: May 18, 2008, 08:26:23 pm
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I guess you'll have to ask yourself if MD Chalice would win you more games than MD Leyline. Playing Shusher because you have Chalice MD just smells "danger of cool things."
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Goblin Sligh 2K8
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on: May 01, 2008, 03:21:39 am
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I have this SB:
4 Shattering Spree - Stax 3 Stingscourger - Tinker 4 Warren Weirding - Fish/MUD 4 Greater Gargadon - Oath
I run 1 Stingscourger, 1 Sharpshooter, and 4 Gempalm Incinerators MD. I'm thinking of switching the Sprees for Chalices vs. combo though, since control-type Stax decks are getting rare, and I have Weirdings for MUD anyway.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Goblin Sligh 2K8
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on: April 30, 2008, 07:13:32 pm
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But... Nobody's saying anything about dropping Leyline to fit in Sharpshooter. By your point of "preventing" the loss, just running a single Sharpshooter (like I believe in the recent 2nd place Gob-Lines list) with the Leyline would "prevent" a game loss more - When they get to bounce the Leyline, then what? Having a Leyline in play would hopefully buy you enough time to Matron/Ringleader into an active Sharpshooter, giving you better control of the game than just Leylines. Of course, you could have already won by that time, but that's the "worst case scenario".
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Goblin Sligh 2K8
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on: April 30, 2008, 02:30:26 am
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I never said anything against Leyline of the Void and/or Goblin Sharpshooter, for that matter. I'm just saying that you're overanalyzing too much. This is GOBLINS for crying out loud.
Got Leyline? Cool. Drop Lackey. Countered? Drop another. Beatdown. Win? Nice. Next game. Oops, Flash. GG.
That's how it goes.
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