This looks like a great start to a likely powerful new deck in Vintage, congratulations!  

I've been out of Vintage for awhile but the new 0CC spells are broken, and it's awesome to see you put this together.  Snapmage + Noxious Revival synergy looks amazing for sure, as does your overall deck synergy.  Looks like you could have trouble early game unless you land a big Cabal Therapy.  You don't out-control, out-disrupt, or out-aggro decks that do it better.  You're relying on sort of a Fish like win strategy by skating by long enough with quick hitting low CC spells and keeping card advantage to pull out a Tinker win, which is fine.  You also have a storm win condition if you choose to include it.

This deck screams Tendrils, if anything a sideboard singleton at the minimum.

Would Thirst for Knowledge be viable?  You only have a handful of artifacts, but it fills up your yard for Snapmage and Noxious Revival use.  Although I suppose any card like Read the Runes could do that.  I haven't played it but it looks like you use your graveyard heavily.

What's your ideal typical draw?

- Masta

I have an oath build, but it's old school I'm sure.  Akroma & Rorix back when Forbidden Orchard was first printed.  I know Oath routinely cycles its kill conditions pretty much every other xpac as more and more OP creatures keep getting produced.   With the addition of Emrakul, gg.

Heh ya I remember stupid Dredge always top 8'ing just because they're Dredge.  Worst mechanic ever created imo.  For MUD decks...ever since I started playing MTG there's always been some sort of Workshop build considered t1.  Whether it's Stax, MUD, Shop Aggro, w/e, they're always there.

I'll probably pick up a copy of the Selkie deck.  I played a lot of Slaver and Fish during my time, but for whatever reason I was a really good Fish pilot.  Selkie seems pretty much a fish deck anyway so I'll probably give it a go.  I've also tried to follow TMWA over the years, call me crazy but I have more fun playing guys and disruption against my opponent rather than playing solo via control/combo.

- Masta

Thank you sir for the update.  Quick and efficient.

TFK restricted?!?  Wow.  Spell Pierce looks sickly OP, figures.  I'll have to check into these Selkie decks.

Thanks again!

- Masta

Hey guys,

So....I've been playing Magic for about a decade now, competitively for a couple years when Fish hit the scene up through right before Painter's release I suppose.

I'm asking for your help, I know I've missed a lot in the past couple years.  Firstly, it seems this Tezz character is basically the best card ever printed.  Time Vault/Voltaic Key is a combo now?  Srsly?  I also heard the other day that you could Stifle a Phyrexian Dreadnought into play now.  Srsly?

If anyone could make a quick bullet list or w/e about some big mover/shaker like event for the past year or two that would be great.

So far I'm seeing...

- Tezz = God
- Time Vault can be untapped w/o losing a turn now?
- Any new banned/restricted?  Unbanned/unrestricted?
- ...
- ?

Thanks a lot in advance guys.

- Masta

I don't want to start any arguments here, but let's get this straight.  TMWA is a meta deck that hates on people.  Usually, powered Blue decks.  Hate is not reactive nor proactive, it's both.  You just play your hateful cards and destroy your opponent.   

Haunted said that TMWA is a tempo-based meta deck.  My response to that is that about 95% of hate decks are just that.  Fish, TMWA, many Goblin builds, and others can all be considered hate decks because they all play cards that hose the best suped-up power decks in Vintage.  Don't tell me cards like Null Rod, Pillar, Kataki, Shaman, Wasteland, REB-effect cards, and Magus do not exist solely in these decks to hate out on the more powered decks.  In fact, in theory most non-top tier decks are hateful because they are home to cards that deal with the big boys.  Do you see TPS, Slaver, Ichorid, or Painter running cards specifically to hose other decks?  No.  So basically for mostly every other deck to compete in Vintage they have to have some form of hate included to deal with top tier decks, otherwise they will fail.

@ Mort-

I like Jaya, mostly because she's smoking hot.  Your Crucible is pretty contingent on getting your Jaya/Crusher engine going.  And your right, your mana curve is pretty steep.  Finally, that's a lot of Pyroblasts, not enough creatures for Vial, and MoM is just not good enough.  Add Wastelands, more Shamans because two isn't enough, and something that deals with combo (specifically Pillar or Null Rod).

V/R
Masta

@ Haunted:  And what's your point?  Are you trying to catch me up in that I'm classifying this list wrong as a hate deck? 

V/R
Masta

I just meant that he had to be cautious of which cards he was willing to bait and have countered in order to resolve his game-swinging bombs.  After all, this is a hate deck and you most definitely want to resolve your most hateriffic cards at any cost.

V/R
Masta

@ Troy:

Alright, I really hate to defend this list as I'm only a fan and not the innovator.  Thus why I wish Lou was around to comment.

Once Wheel is cast I'm sure the player will draw into one land and possibly artifact mana, and there's a decent chance they'll draw into a SSG and/or that game-ending Fireblast as well.  There's two mana right there that'll allow the player to squeeze out a Bolt or two, Shaman, Pillar, Price of Progress, or Spree and be able to absorb the cost of Fireblast.  Mind you, this is all assuming the player resolves a Wheel when they only have three mana up, which I'm sure isn't typical nor ideal.  I'd think the player would hold this card until all other cards in hand were played or as a desperate attempt to crawl back in the game. 

A quick point on Crusher not thinning your land draws.  Have you ever played with Crusher?  Your comments lead me to believe you haven't.  And this deck is far from light on lands.  Lou ran 19 lands (32% of his deck), which is literally a ton in Type 1.  Most top tier Vintage decks run closer to 15 lands (25% of your deck). 

Anyway, I think Lou must have done a lot of Jedi Mind Tricking with this deck, saving his best threat for last.  I don't think there were a bunch of tough plays because after all, it's just Mono Red.  This isn't some crazy TPS build or anything.  I really appreciate the old-schoolness of this list and I wish these types of decks were more prevalent in Vintage.  People might be surprised at how often Red damage just wins.  The amount of broken damage Red has at it's disposal in Vintage is fantastic.

Finally, full power is really bad in this deck.  There's nothing he can power out first turn with full power other than Magus and Wheel.  It seems like you keep wanting this deck to be broken like Storm or something.  It's not.  It's a very plain, solid, redundant, consistent Mono Red deck that happens to have bite against most Vintage decks.  Would you run full power in Mono White Weenie?  How about Fish?  Same thing applies here.

The player probably didn't play Null Rod to keep his speed up.  Maybe he felt that his match-ups against decks most susceptible to Null hate weren't that bad.  This deck can kill Painters, race TPS, and keep Welder off the table with super consistency.  Besides, he ran plenty of artifact hate including Shamans which are basically Null Rods for one Red that also turn sideways.

Concerning Browbeat and Burn Out, after you take five damage from Browbeat you usually have two or three turns max to win the game before taking lethal damage.  Many people play maindeck Blast effect spells, I don't see a problem with Burn Out at all.

Alright, I'm done trying to quickly dissect this guy's deck list.  Maybe somebody else should chime in here.  As for you Troy, maybe call this list up and play with it for awhile before criticizing its structure.

V/R
Masta

Wow, that list is awesome!  Talk about hate!  And big ups for Lightning Bolt!  Lightning Bolt is so money, I love it! 

I agree that the list looks kind of 'huh?' at first, but look at how many hate/utility cards are in there then think about all the cards that make the top tier decks work.  Also, a lot of his main consists of traditional hate cards that are typically brought in Game 2.  It just so happens that most of those cards all hate on the top tier decks right now, so it makes perfect sense that this deck performed well. 

I'm not the pilot, so I can't comment for him.  However, Crusher isn't just a guy that grows.  He slims your deck of dead land draws as well.  Considering this guy runs massive hate, I imagine Crusher performed pretty well in guaranteeing a mid-game draw that does something 90%+ of the time.  Playing artifact lands and an Atog in this list is a no-go, we shouldn't even have to discuss this.

Wheel of Fortune has definitely not been successful in Vintage for quite some time.  I'd imagine the player was very strategic with this and avoided casting it blindly into a Storm deck.  Against other decks I'm sure it sets up an easy street burn to victory.  Having said that, I can still see the advantage this gives TMWA by drawing into 4-5 hate cards regardless of what you give the Storm player.

I'd really like to hear what Lou has to say about this deck, does he have a TMD account?

V/R
Masta

I've always been a huge fan of UR Landstill, it's actually my first Type 1 deck so I naturally gravitate towards it as well as other fishy-tempo like decks.  I've also noticed that it has possibly been overlooked and is definitely a very resilient and viable Type 1 option in these crazy times.  Stifle is very, very, very powerful right now.  Storm combo is equally prevalent and robust, Slaver and Painter are everywhere, and mana denial is great, all things that Stifle can handle.  I'm going to test your list as I've never used Vendilion Clique in there even though it makes perfect sense. 

I am confused by the three main REBs.  That's 5% of your deck that is dependent on either your opponent playing Blue or your opponent playing Painter's Servant and choosing Blue.  It's strong sure, but you're making Game 1 very difficult against some Storm builds, Dark Confidant/Tarmogoyf Fish, and Mud/Stax.  I'd have something more like Merchant Scroll, Cunning Wish, Misdirection, and/or some other draw like FoF, Deep Anal, or Gifts in there.

Nice post.

V/R
Masta

Maybe I shouldn't have used 'Solid' since you've quoted me, instead let's say 'Heavy' Control decks.  DT has some issues with Heavy Control, period.  Drawing cards is pretty and fun, but a player with a hand full of counters doesn't really care until you play the expected Yawg Will.

I like your build, as I tend to like any variation of this deck.  However, you agree yourself that it's a bit less powerful compared to the lean UB build.  I definitely noticed it's fragility in mana consistency as well as cards that do things.  Mana denial hurts the UBG build, bad.  Also, as great and explosive as Fastbond, Regrowth, and another win condition are they inherently hurt the deck in consistency and card advantage.  Don't you agree?

I've had success with a UB build that runs Tinker/DSC, minus one Intuition.  DT's draw tends to put DSC in my hand a lot but having four ToK evens that out, and I've enjoyed Tinkering for Lotus then playing Will.  Do you really think Fastbond is that good here though?  I can see the potential explosion, but I can also see where the card is just a dead draw.

V/R
Masta 

Congratulations on finding success with Regrowth, Fastbond, and Mind Twist.  It's great to see both Regrowth and Twist getting dusted off for some action!

I've always felt that Mind Twist is an incredibly powered card that can the win the game just as easily as any other.  I realize that it's usually a terrible pull after the early game, but with DT it's just another bomb in the list that the opponent needs to deal with.  I've also noticed that the inclusion of these three cards greatly increases the power of Gifts Ungiven.

I've had less success with this build in testing compared to the older versions.  It could be because there's less draw, or it could be because I'm not proficient with this build.  Either way it's no secret that DT has a tough time with solid control decks, I think this list is even more fragile in that respect.  I'd like to see if this build keeps winning as we move forward.

V/R
Masta 

Well put TripleAgent, that's exactly the point I was trying to make.  I should have been better with my word choice and used something like 'almost always' instead of 'always'.  Excuse my poor penmanship!  When you're in top deck mode and you rip a Scrying, odds are it's getting cast for at least 4-5+.  I can't recall ever getting burned with a draw full of mana sources.  It's possible, sure.  It's just that it's more likely I'll have more bad Gifts piles than I will bad Scrying draws.

I can't really comment on boarding with this deck because I'm terrible at it.  As far as not bringing in DSC, I do this against Oath and other TPS and it seems to work out pretty well. 

V/R
Masta

@ hundred year

You're right, Gifts can be amazing in that situation.  I just prefer Scrying here because it's always good, whereas there's a small possibility that a top decked Gifts could be crap.  Keep in mind that Gifts does progressively worse as the game goes on with this build.  A Scrying for 3+ usually won't ever lead to a dead draw with this deck.  Odds are you'll hit at least one Drain, Force, AK, or Thirst.  I'm happy with that and a couple other cards when you're in top deck mode. 

They're both great of course, but I'd prefer Scrying in that scenario.

@ Ufactor

Why not?  They're both fantastic cards that mesh really well with the deck?

Firstly, congratulations and thanks on being the father of this beast!  Traditionally I'm not much of a fan of Combo decks, but this deck is an absolute blast to play!  I love it!

About the Gifts vs. Scrying:

I totally feel your frustration with this.  I love Scrying.  Always have, always will.  It's an insanely powered card that's way underplayed in my opinion.  The life loss can make it easier for an opposing Tendrils player to kill you, but it's seldom an issue against anything else.  On the other hand, a resolved Gifts does usually result in moving on to the next Game.  It's also worth noting that Gifts easily pitches to Force while the Scrying makes you have that Black source, possibly increasing your mana vulnerability.

It seems that the amazing draw power of this deck typically has us come in contact with one or more of the ideal Gifts pile cards being Tutor, Tutor, Tutor, and Lotus before we see a Gifts.  If we were talking about another build that runs more tutors and/or Recoup this would be a totally different argument.  Gifts and Recoup go together like Peanut Butter and Jelly, but with this build there really aren't that many options available that exploit Gifts to its full potential.  The truth is that an overwhelming majority of the time you play Gifts with this build, you're always going to have trouble on that 3rd and/or 4th card.  Not to mention that when you rip out your first automatic two or three cards, your opponent knows to surely let you keep that last 'meh' card that you spent some time thinking about.  On the off chance that I see a Gifts before any of that, the problem is that I'm usually not in a hurry to play it unless I'm desperate.  I'm more inclined to sit back and play Control until I'm forced to make a move.  It's also really tough to discuss Gifts piles without giving the scenario, but when my ideal targets are gone I tend to lean towards Tolarian, Ancestral, Force (opponents hate giving you Force), Walk, and FoF. 

 

(1) If you have an edge  - You're already winning!  Keep winning and play Control.  This deck doesn't try to combo out early!
     EDGE - SCRYING
(2) If you have the means, and you're a Gifts pro - Why not?
     EDGE - GIFTS
(3) If you're in topdeck mode - Scrying is fantastic here, /discussion!
     EDGE - SCRYING

The final problem I have with Gifts is that it only gets you +1CA.  Granted you've greatly improved your hand quality and put some bombs in the GY for future recursion, but before Will resolves you're only up one card.  The only time a Scrying leaves me with that same +1CA is if (1) I was in a desperate situation and that's all the mana I had or (2) I had three life.  It's so easy to Scrye for 3, 4, and even 5 cards with this deck that's it doesn't make sense not to include it!

I think it would be beneficial to continue playing with Gifts, and record all of your piles including what the opponent gave you.  Maybe give a number rating with the record as well.  Something like: 2 - Demonic, Ancestral, Lotus, Tolarian / Lotus, Tolarian
     (1) Crappy Gifts that really didn't tickle your fancy
     (2) Satisfactory Gifts that left you in a happy, winning state
     (3) Awesome Gifts shortly followed by a 'GG'
Once you get 20 or so piles, report it back here.  It'll then be easier for everyone to see if you're really getting your money's worth out of the card.  Until then...

My Vote for your build: Skeletal Scrying

V/R
Masta

heh, I dismiss like 99.9% of the decks on wizards.com as crap.  I wouldn't ever go there for anything other than using their card database, but that's just me.  If you want something to play around with, netdeck something on this site.  That Booby Trap deck you provided looks like it's a first class ticket to an ass whooping, casual or not.

Moreover, why even play casual?  Just play Type 4?!

V/R
Masta

Drain Tendrils has been hot lately ever since that post went up.  I don't really think of that deck as something that 'clicks' with fantastic synergies, but rather one that just plays better cards than most decks.  I think that deck was a product of where the format has been heading back since Mirrodin and Slaver came to light.  Card drawing has become so huge in vintage lately it's unreal.  I like how the deck takes this aspect of the game to the absolute extreme, tosses in the game's best counter back-up and some restricted brokenness and whalla!  You got yourself a winning deck.  It definitely has the sickest draw engine to date, and it only makes sense that the deck is successful because a lot of the time card advantage = win in vintage. 

Before I get to ahead of myself, Drain Tendrils is quite pricey to build.  You probably won't get by making it with $100-$150 unless you're allowed the purportedly common 15 card proxy limit.  This way you'll be left buying a handful of $5-$15 cards as well as some much cheaper uncommons like Accumulated Knowledge, TFK (Thirst for Knowledge), and the like.

Be careful about what cards you run and buy right now.  It's easy to get excited and buy a bunch of cards that seem sweet to own, but you may never even sleeve them up.  Slaver is a great card but it's really only used in one type of deck, Slaver.  FoF (Fact or Fiction) is a good card but like the other poster mentioned it is one of the least 'broken' of the restricted list and probably wouldn't hurt if it were unrestricted, but that's another thread.  If you can't wait to buy some cards and you have to scratch that itch, consider some of these, especially if you like combo:

4 Force of Willl
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven (the other, much better Fact or Fiction)
Some sac-lands (Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand, etc.)

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gush
1 Tinker
1 Echoing Truth/Chain of Vapor

These cards are very commonly found in vintage and even if you don't play them right off the bat, odds are you probably will sooner or later.  The top cards are affordable rares, while the bottom set are very affordable uncommons.  Plus a lot of these cards are in your ideal Drain Tendrils build, so rest assured you're not only building your deck but your collection as well.  Come to think of it, I remember someone on this site used to compile statistical data of cards represented at large tournaments, and on top of that how often they showed up in Top8 lists.  That would be a great place to look for great, commonly played vintage cards to start your collection.  Maybe someone can finish this thought for me and post a link?

Also, maybe your Bomberman friend could loan you a deck to play for that tournament?  Just a thought.

V/R
Masta

If you're bent on running a RG Aggro deck at this event but want to remain a threat, why not just netdeck the lastest TMWA list or run Goblin(e)s?  I would take either of them over your list here.  Just a thought.

V/R
Masta

I like this thread, because it supports my theory that it has become increasingly ridiculously difficult for new players to break into Vintage.  I'm interested to follow this player's adventure.

To the OP:


First things first, where are you trying to play Vintage?  At your local card store on Wednesday nights?  Or at regional tournaments that offer up Moxes and such for prizes?  Local shops usually don't offer unlimited proxies and so the power curve of the decks is a bit lower.  You can easily get by with a $100-$150 deck there, any fish build would be perfect.  The bigger tournies either offer full proxy counts or at least 8 or so, but here you're going to need some quality cards to do anything other than lose.

Yawgmoth's Will, what can't be said about Yawgmoth's Will.  It's arguably the most powerful card in Vintage.  Most of the best decks run it, and most of those decks plan on resolving it to win the game.  Most of the time, whenever it does resolve the opponent will just say "good game" because they know they just lost.  Try and pay attention to others when they play it, but don't try and dive right into a TPS deck and expect to know your ass from your elbow.  You know what I'm saying?

Playing is the best thing for you to do.  You can read all you want but it doesn't mean anything until you can apply it through playing.  Some people read -> play, I like to play -> read, but that's just me.  I suggest you look up a few decks on here, netdeck one of them, and play on MWS until your eyes bleed.  Then take a 15 minute break and play until your eyes puss, rinse & repeat.  It'll take awhile since there's a bevy of possibilities in T1, but you'll start to know your place pretty quick and get a grasp of what's good and what sucks.

Welcome to Vintage, Good Luck!

V/R
Masta

I haven't played this in a while as I've been enjoying Blue and Black cards lately.  But let me address your post before we get out of control.

Enchantress isn't a land-go type of deck if you know what I mean, which it would tend to lean towards by including some of the cards you mentioned above.  In fact, most of those cards you mentioned are SB cards if anything.  I can't think of any instance that would warrant a mainboard inclusion of Energy Flux, Choke, or Arcane Laboratory.  Leyline could possibly be included, but any other maindeck hate cards other than that are out of question.  When you include FoW, you not only drop your Enchantment count, but also force the pilot to hold Blue cards in their hand.  This doesn't work because as I mentioned above, Enchantress's goal is to draw and play cards as fast and furiously as possible.

Sterling Grove and Replenish are the best two cards in the archtype period, excluding the obvious Argothian Enchantress.  Sterling Grove is basically a four include Vampiric Tutor that gives all of your non-land permanents Shroud.  Replenish is sick card advantage, and doubles the amount of Seal of Cleansings/Sterling Groves in your deck.  I don't know what else to say.

V/R
Masta

I'm a very rogue-ish player that likes to play anything that isn't played by more than 5% of the crowd.  This deck seems pretty sweet for just throwing a first list up.  When creating decks, I always give it the good ol' Oath test.  This is mostly because I'm pretty good at rolling over to Oath unless I play one of the top tier decks. 

It looks like this deck would get raped hard by Oath, no?

It seems like the deck aims to power out Chalice @ 1, where I think Chalice @ 2 would be ideal.  Of course, it's a pain in the arse for any non-Workshop deck to power out a Chalice @ 2 on Turn 1.

Also, if you don't mind discussing it...why the emphasis of Chalice @ 1?  I'm not criticizing here, I'm just trying to get a gauge for what the deck is trying to do.  If the deck looks to lay it down for 2, which totally makes sense based on your mana curve....disregard.

V/R
Masta

Yea Zur is tough to fit into a deck.  I think people have always had it on the backburner but just never came up with a good spot for it.  To build a deck around it, you'd have to have something that both establishes a better board position than your opponent and either attacks their hand or has good counter back-up so they can't tutor their way out of it.

It could be a nice singleton side-in for any deck that runs blue maybe against slow, control-type decks?

V/R
Masta 

Hey what's up Fraggle, I saw that card a week or so ago.  I honestly never thought to include it in an Enchantress deck.  I think it fits nicely in an infinite mana deck, or even some super stall, prison-like deck.

The more I play with Enchantress the more I feel like it'll never be able to make a jump to the next level.  It'll always be a solid deck though, that obviously gets much better as the game drags on.

I think the only way Enchantress can remain or become more competitive is with black cards, pure and simple.  Cards like Thoughtseize, Duress, Leyline, Tutor, and Words of Waste, although minimal in numbers are absolutely critical to the deck's continued success.  When you throw blue in there, you have to include Ancestral as well a set of Forces, but then you're obligated to add at least another ten blue cards to compliment FoW.  Not to mention you make the deck a bit more reactive where I feel being proactive at attacking your opponent's hand is the way to go.  I don't want to dive to far into this, but ask yourself what's better to have in your hand?  FoW or a Thoughtseize?

V/R
Masta

Hey what's up?  Great choice selecting this archtype for a good budget deck.  RG Beatdown decks are loads of fun to play with, they're cheap, and the possibilities of card choices are almost endless!  That being said, they often get owned by the top decks because of their lack of power cards and brokenness.   Hopefully the people you play with don't like to go Turn 1 Tinker->Win or Turn 1->spell, spell, spell, etc....Tendrils->Win.  Ok!  With this deck you want to have an identity and yours seems that it's trying to do too many things at once but nothing great.  Typically one would pick a path to victory and build a deck around it, I have three common examples below.

-*-
One way is to go old school, straight out balls-to-wall damage with minimal disruption.  Personally, I still think it can steal quite a few games and is much more viable than others may say but that's just me.  The idea is to lay critters, clear their path, and pump them up for lethal damage.  Anyway, a build would look something like this:

4 Kird Ape
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Pouncing Jaguar
4 Tarmogoyf / Skyshroud Elite / Skyshroud Ridgeback
2 Vine Dryad

4 Rancor
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Stormbind

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Giant Growth
2 Bounty of the Hunt
2 Naturalize
2 Scrap

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
3 Forest
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald

-*-
Another way to go would be the more controlling and disrupting route.  I think this is best accomplished by going mono-green with the build.  You'd want to build a deck around key cards to include Null Rod, Root Maze, and the Hidden Gibbons/Guerillas enchantments, among others.  The plan here is to play either the Aggro/Tempo game depending on the match-up.  The deck doesn't really hate on anything particular, but it's decent against most T1 powered decks and aims to either steal a quick win via Hidden Whatever or slow the game down long enough to demand a win via Root Maze, Null Rod, and destroying all of your opponent's stuff.  There's threads all around about this but here's the first one I found: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=21527.0

-*-
And, my personal opinion and favorite choice would be to go and join MyriadGames and his TMWA cult.  TMWA (The Mountain Wins Again) is a new archtype that constantly adapts to the metagame and likes to play fun, simple cards that screw decks over like Gorilla Shaman, Magus of the Moon, Aven Mindscensor, Null Rod, and what have you.  There are no rules to TMWA decks, only that they play Mountains.  It's a great place to experiment with new cards, new colors, and well...you get the idea.  A current thread to get you up to speed can be found here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35901.0

I'm by no means a R/G pro, but the information that I gave above should do you just fine.  Whatever you decide to do, have fun!

V/R
Masta

Wow, please some Moderator close this topic and stop the pain!

The amount of brutal truth in this topic may thwart someone from continuing to play Magic.  I feel that all of the replies thus far have been just, and in a way provoked, but damn.  Please let it stop!

V/R
Masta

I'm more interested in keeping a Green/White/Black Enchantress build.  Some of the other posters may jump in here as they added their own blue ideas for the archtype earlier in the post.  I do agree though, Zur's Weirding is totally broken.  I'd love to see a deck that can abuse it.

Also, I think you meant 'Mind Over Matter' for that last enchantment and not 'Mind's Desire'.  Mind's Desire let's you draw and play the top card of your library for free, with Storm.

V/R
Masta

heh, yeah you could definitely include a Squirrel's Nest since you plan on maining those Earthcrafts.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be a hater but here's some big problems with this deck:

1)  You're pretty much going straight Aggro here, and there are other decks out there that do this much better than you do here.
2)  You're opponent really doesn't care what cards you play that aren't named Yavimaya Enchantress.  Maybe Seal of Primordium sometimes.  Why?  Because none of your cards effect your opponent.  So this leaves them with plenty of time to establish control of the game for themselves.  Since most T1 players will play more powerful, non-green cards they have a higher probability of succeeded in their plan versus you.  If you want to play a deck that doesn't really involve the opponent, just play combo and you'll have more success.
3)  You're going mono-green.  This is pretty risky.  It's very, very uncommon for people to go mono-green in T1.  Really mono-anything is uncommon since we have such great options for creating a solid mana base.  Just adding Windswept Heaths, Tropical Islands, and one Ancestral Recall would increase the power of your deck greatly.  Green's problem is that they have very little disruption, and this is a big problem with your deck.

I'm sure your deck is fast, and that it works well.  I think you'd have a lot more success if you added some disruption.  How about changing your mana base as follows:

- 11 Forest

+ 4 Windswept Heath
+ 5 Bayou
+ 1 Mox Emerald
+ 1 Black Lotus

And change the following cards:

- 4 Wild Growth
- 1 Earthcraft
- 1 Primal Rage

+ 4 Thoughseize
+ 1 Demonic Tutor
+ 1 Regrowth

Besides adding black to your deck, the mana base changes will help slim down your deck as the game goes on so that you draw more 'business' cards instead of basic Forests.  It will also make you more explosive with the artifact inclusions.

Your Wild Growths may be overkill along with Utopia Sprawls.  Adding four Thoughtseize will greatly improve your deck.  Trust me, Thoughtseize really is that good.  Same can be said about Demonic Tutor.  Three Earthcraft may be a bit too many, and I'm not a fan of Primal Rage.  With your draw, it seems like a win more card.  I feel Regrowth is a nice inclusion if one of your key creatures gets countered/destroyed, or if you need to regain a Seal of Primordium.

V/R
Masta

Wow Fraggle, wow.  I don't really know where to begin.  I briefly commented on two of your comparisons below but it's hardly all I have to say.  I don't have the time nor the energy to discuss each detail that I would like to express in response to your post.  I must ask, "How much have you played with your deck?  And against who?"  I consider my build to be fairly solid but it still have a hell of a time dealing with the majority of the tier 1 decks like Slaver, any Tendrils Combo, Workshop, Oath, and Painter.  This is to be expected as all of these decks are excellent at what they do.  I'm not sure but maybe your build would've done well on the Type 2 scene which is much more Aggro-based.  Type 1 isn't really all that Aggro at all really.  Really the only pure Aggro-ish cards that are even played today are DC, Tarmogoyf, Goblin Piledriver, Juggernaut, and maybe Jotun Grunt, among others.  And yes, you must pack some sort of disruption to be successful in Type 1, whether it's proactive or reactive.  Workshop decks will run up to nine mana disruption effects in order to clear a path for their fatties.  Goblin decks are packed full of utility creatures that can ping creatures, disrupt the opponent, and create card advantage.  Your deck would have amazing difficulty dealing with cards such as:

Oath of Druids
Dark Confidant
Goblin Welder
Smokestack
Counterbalance/Magus
Painter's Servant/Grindstone
Force of Will
Darksteel Colossus
Metalworker

Seriously, have you faced these cards?  What do you do?


Yes, the 'weakness' of my manabase is totally worth it.


Tutors are welcomed in every archtype, it's just that some either don't have good enough tutor options available to their color, or they just can't squeeze them in over more desired cards.  Many people believe that if you resolve a Demonic Tutor you should be able to if not flat out win, at least put yourself in a significantly better position than you were in before casting it.  For example, against your build I would tutor for a Moat, which would for the most part end the game.  Other decks may tutor for a Tinker, Tendrils, Yawgmoth's Will, Oath, their last combo piece, or counter back-up.  The point is that you can see how much one tutor can swing the tide of a game in one player's favor.  The fact is that Sterling Grove is arguably the best card in the deck.  A two mana, four of tutor that also offers shroud/protection for around two-thirds of the deck is really, really good.

--

I must ask, why don't you at least run some Windswept Heaths to smooth out your draw?  And where is your sideboard?

The only cards in your list that aren't reinforcing your Aggro plan are your Elephant Grass and Seal of Primordium.  Which are both excellent cards.  I would keep those, along with the four Argothians, and go back to the drawing board.  If you're that adamant about keeping your Aggro style you should maybe consider the old Auratog build.  With this deck you can keep a your Yavimayas and complement them with Ancestral Masks.  The meat of the deck was based on recurring card draw by having Auratog eat Rancors, or by recasting a Flickering Ward.  Something like:

4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
3 Flooded Strand
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Strip Mine
3 Forest
3 Plains
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Auratog
2 Yavimaya Enchantress
4 Birds of Paradise

1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Crop Rotation
3 Swords to Plowshares

4 Wild Growth
2 Seal of Cleansing/Primordium
2 Exploration
2 Slyvan Library
2 Elephant Grass
2 Rancor
2 Ancestral Mask
1 Flickering Ward

You get the point.  Something like this would still offer you some sort of disruption through Seals, Swords, and Grass.  However I feel the draw engine is a bit more robust.  There are also numerous cards to smooth out your game like Eladamri's Call, Enlightened Tutor, and Slyvan Library.  I also threw in a Crop Rotation to deal with a pesky land via your Strip, or to search for a mana explosion via Sanctum or Cradle.  Good luck!

V/R
Masta

Some of us were discussing Enchantress not to long ago on this thread currently on page 2.  I have been experimenting but haven't added to the post lately.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35831.0

I agree that Enchantress can be successful right now.  Enchantress is somewhat of a forgotten archtype that may in fact not be viable anymore.  However, I've had great success running this deck recently and believe that it can be viable.  Cards like Runed Halo and Wheel of Sun and Moon have pumped new life into the deck by offering it solid answers to decks that would normally eat its lunch like basically any combo deck or Ichorid.  These cards combined with disruption via Duress/Tormod's Crypt/StP/Seal of Cleansing is more than enough to allow it to hold its own with the big boys. 

I run a Green/White/Black version that seeks a soft lock while you attempt to go lethal.  Your build seems a bit to Aggro-ish and like the previous poster mentioned there isn't enough slots dedicated to disruption-control.

V/R Masta

Congrats on the nice tournament guys.  I'm an Akron native, but I've been on a four year military vacation and have just returned.  I would've attended, possibly even with my cousin, but I'm still getting settled into my new apartment at the moment. 

Meh, I wonder if my skills are even up to par to participate in such a tournament.  Being gone for so long, I already forget simple plays like when to interrupt dragon, bomberman, what's the proper gifts play, etc. 

Either way, if and when I do finally decide to show up...expect some crazy oldschool rogue deck because I refuse to go mainstream and play a ubiquitous top deck.

V/R
Masta