I would like to ... Lol ... reThink about this list...

Why Sage of epityr?
...Epityr is good to avoid mana screw mulligans , and is necessary in U+R/G lists of fish.
...Here we could fetch for the 2 type basic lands and we have stifle to support both of Mana/Grunt/Denial.
...I really think we could use 4of Cursecatcher instead of "sage" and Disrupt.

To don't change too much your Idea i think its good to have a 1x of "SAGE"(5°drop cc1 for ninja) and a 1xDisrupt(it goes to complete the set of DAZE/CURSECATCHER).

1x Hurkyl's recall is very good against Leviatan...but...is an 1x...
...Merchant?
...Mystical?
...They give us Ancestral/protections and the 1x bounc eof the deck ... a must-in if we choice the 1x Bounce in the deck !!!

---

Regards^^

p.s. Italian UR Fish Players Do It Better ! !!!

why taking sigil over deglaimer that resolves one of the best problems of the deck? Colossus ?

This deck hasn't got a good matchup with a fishUR of WUtang ... insteed of every tipical RGbeat

This could be done with the trasmute build ... here u could hardcast platz , so u have an out more.

another change , -1fetch +2°island from that list , using 4fetch 2island 3underground for a bicolor build.

Cutting red i loose ingot & rebs but i gain more stability ( i don't autoloose from wasteland/gorillashaman ) and I need to change the post side strategy post side ... with 1colossus ... and bounce like hurkyl that is a combo enabler too ( tap sensei ... hurkyl & gain 1card and mana).

I was thinking a thing like this...
1darksteel colossus
2pithing needle
2tormod's crypt
4duress
2extirpate
2hurkyll's
1engineered plagueù

@Platz-> in the tournament I loose 1game because of manacrypt under timevault/key ... so i think we need tinker+creature ... and i think that platz could give us the time we need to found the combo , increasing the combo match-up ( that is good already ) ... and i choose platz because he is very simple to hardcast in this deck.

http://www.deckcheck.net/stats.php?id=48500

creature [1]
1 Platinum Angel

instant [19]
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor

sorcery [8]
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Thoughtcast
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

artifact [15]
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Time Vault
2 Voltaic Key

land [15]
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
3 Polluted Delta
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea

planeswalker [2]
2 Tezzeret the Seeker

60 cards

---

Top8 this week with this deck , thanks to Cèsar for the initial build!

@CHaPuZaS <- Tomorrow i'll play your deck in the central italy metagame 50%fish/ichorid/artifact - 25%draindeck 25%combo ... do u think that -1reb +1pithing needle for the maindeck ... and +1 pithing needle for the sideboard could increase our matchup for fish/ichorid?

BYE!!! ... making U->draw2 is very strong ... and going under multiple spheres with thoughtcast is crazy fun 

From the first post!!!
---
Moxlotus@NullRods - Pillar - Misdirection - Calice ... are protections of the old style fish that i dislike ... now i'm trying to go in a new way of aggrocontrol where we don't need to make them asymmetrik , i wan't no dead draws and only spell that make play or protections.
I'm not saying its a bad card ... only that playing spellstutter as critters & counter instead of rod/calice we gain a good counter pool of cards.
Here in Italy many fishUR are playing like that with good results ... but if u like rods too much , u could found 2 slot for a 2x of it ... sure not more.
---

Grunt is a good problem , but with the sideboard ( relic and jitte) we could win the game easly.
Here we don't have many WUtang player , more FishUR mirrors , so F/ice is the key.

If i could give u a hint ... don't take out clouds of faeries from the deck , its too important to have a potential 8 faeries in the deck to counters cc3spells like yawghmot ... and loosing clouds you must ridefine the number of cc1 spells like stifle and critters@1 for ninja.

 

Stutter Fish

Maindeck (60):

2 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island

4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Mutavault
1 Library of Alexandria

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus

22
------ : ------
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours

3 Gorilla Shaman
1 Grim Lavamancer

2 Sage of Epityr

2 Cloud of Faeries
4 Folletta Balbettamagie

16
------ : ------
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Stifle
2 Spell Snare
1 Negate

12
------ : ------
3 Fire-Ice
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of vapor

5
------ : ------
1 Brainstorm
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

5

tot 60

---

This is the list that i take for the last tournament , and I made final with 41 persons.
The only change is -1stifle +1negate.
I choose to wait for a URG list that is not much tested and continue to play the classic UR.

I understand your Fear for Calice@1 on the first match , now i'm trying chain of vapor only because with a spellstutter in play I think about it as a counter/bounce slot , with 3 mana is a counter that targets cc@1 or plus ... in combat phase is not inusual to do chain to spellstutter , sac island chain to tarmogoyf and have a counter in hand (with a cloud/stutter/mutavault in play) , and things like this. .

At last i'm trying chain because we have a good sideboard VS artifact and we don't have many Ichorid/Empty the warrens in our metagame ... but Echoing is a Good choice  too ( And yes maybe better) .

The Relearn too is only an Experiment , it looks very strong in test ... but only when u see some accelerators , and we don't have many , i think i'll risk the fourth ninja ... or i'll meandeck a tarmogoyf to have another slot for ichorid in sideboard ( 2° tormod's crypt i think).

Thank u for Your interest @ the list , and we are happy u have done well in tournament  .
( place & number of partecipants?)

EDIT-OT: I talked to Francesco on Messenger and He Thanks u saying that he makes some changes on the deck.
-2cloud of faeries +2pyrostatic pillar
-1 grim lavamancer +1 fire/ice
-1mishra's factory +1mutavault
and for the sideboard -2 pillar( now maindeck) +1reb +freeslot ... and he say to think about some relic instead of tormod's crypt.
And He wins Lucca Comics 2008 , one of the most important tournament of the year here in italy ... and the prize was an Airline Ticket to USA for the 2009 World Tournament of Vintage ... so smennen ... watch out 

I'll respond u better this afternoon , electrolyzes are 2x Fire/ices , the database of deckchek doesn't have fire/ice for stats ^^'.
My mistake.
I know well Francesco and the list that u are playing  , we talked together about the list and he is one of the best player in ITALY ( The 2° for DCI Eternal rating)

---

EDIT: The Deck play very well in test ... so Better that I was thinking...I tried Relearn , a slow card 1UU and the green cards ... and I founded that it works well.

->The manabase is increased to 23 + 2stifle&1gush as protection ...Colored mana too , I cutted a wasteland for the 3° mox (now we have only 3waste+1strip+1library+2mutavault->7nocolor lands) ... and 1island+6dual+5fetch+1lotus+3moxes.

16 colored mana & 3 protections , not usual for a fish deck.

With this manabase i could reduce mulligans for mana screw and i have better probabilities to start land-mox-stutter.
So I don't really need a first turn sage & if i see him ... i'm happy because the deck is no redoundant and full of solutions 1-2x.
( I have only one in the deck but when I see him , he have a greater impact i think).

-> Deglaimer , I think its a better choice of Echoing Truth , its a good solution to colossus , artifacts & oaths maindeck.
It has the ability to shuffle the deck thats a bit strong against top deck tutors ... nad against T1 cards like sol ring / Pithing needle /Aether vial / Mishra's ^-^...

-> 5critter@cc1 to support 3xNinja ability ...I'm trying to found the less number of critters to increase the number of spells in the deck.
Before I had 6critter@1 + stutter/cloud ... now 5 + 1mox for 3ninja.
The results of my tests say that the stability of the deck is good , if we don't have the drop@1 we have land-mox on first turn  ... or we have tutors to cast Ancestral Recall ... or  we have an Hand full of counters , and we will Hard cast him in the right time ( 3° turn with a mox usually with a daze backup).

->curiosity , the only card that I dislike in the tests , we need a card for the draw engine in this slot , now i'm trying Relearn ... to retake ancestral/force/timewalk/gush from the graveyard. lol.

---

Hope u reThink at the list with the Fire/Ice , I'll be happy to answer to your questions.


---

creature [14]

2 Cloud of Faeries
3 Gorilla Shaman
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Sage of Epityr
4 Spellstutter Sprite

instant [19]
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Daze
1 Deglamer
2 Fire/Ice
4 Force of Will
1 Gush
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Spell Snare
2 Stifle

sorcery [4]
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Regrowth
1 Time Walk
1 Relearn

artifact [4]
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire

land [19]
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Mutavault
3 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD[15]
3 tarmogoyf
2 energy flux
2 ancient grudge
2 ingot chewer
1 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
2 relic of progenitus
1 tormod's crypt
1 meta slot ( 2°tormod's crypt/2° Spell snare/ 2° deglaimer...ecc...)

Today a little top4 for this deck ... we ha losed by Manawith Friggorid ( With spoilers and force of wills )

I was thinking to enjoy a bit of green splash to take Regrowth ( fix the draw engine) and switch echoing truth with deglamer ( fix a little the oath/artifact matchup and take care of colossus ).

Post side we could use the power of tarmogoyf to make easier the aggrocontrol mirror and the goblin matchup.

This is a check of the sperimental new list ... http://www.deckcheck.net/stats.php?id=45426 ... ( Electrolyze is Fire/ice , problems with the database )

Breed@ Thank u for testing my list , hope u comment your results and post your feeling with the deck after.

Bongo@I tried 2x Standstill in the place of Mystical tutor & Merchant Schroll to backup the draw engine ... and i don't like it very much ... we only have 2 man lands and few critters , If u need a draw cards u could replace a card in the list for 1xGush !!! It equilibrate the loss of the 2° grim lavamancer ... we gain manabase solidity in the mirror match ... with reb postside we could go for Nolook draw searching for counters with mana in pool...and its synergic with library/mystical tutor/sage of epityr...i like it.
With the Gush i think u could cut 1x wasteland to take a lotus petal or a manacrypt ( ninja , jitte , energy flux ... it works!!!) and make the deck more aggressive.

EDIT <- A first version of the list played 4standstill 4manlands(2muta2mishra) 2ninja , no tutors ... but it was before the last limitation of brainstorm & ponder , where a spellstutter was countering every spell in the field ^^'... now the manacost is rised and we must try to accelerate the beat down...without loosing the control.  Enjoy!!!

Some match-ups

Oath -> 45% preside - 47.5% postSide
We have snare and good counters to slow him , but our finishers are little creatures so the math would never be so positive ... but even not bat at all.

AKcontrol combo -> 65%preside - 60%postside
We have manadenial , hard counters like reb & spellsnare , and ninjas make the match problematic for him...merchant/mystical/chain/echoing/ice are good solutions to a tinker->bigOne.

Combo -> 55%preside - 47.5% postside
Stifles & spellstutter could make big problems for the 1st match.
Post side our surprise effect is vanished , if he have a good sideboard we must see the right cards to reach a good manadenial...if u can't ... go for fast ninja hoping your hopponent don't have too much forces to protect his bombs.

Artifact -> 40% preside - 65% postside
not good if he start in the 1st match , but postside we have many slots ... an easy match if u have done some tests with this arktype.
U need to know the hand to mulligan , counter & destroy only the right thing.

Manaless-> Hope to have a wasteland->preside / 60% postside
Hope for wasteland/daze/stifle preside...
Go for relic/ingot/wasteland in the second...

I think that UR landstill have the better matchups with the metagame u listed.

FishUR too if u use spellsnare maindeck ...

Hi breed!

Choose the right number of manlands was a little difficult ... but after many testing I learn that I was attaking very few times with mishra , more often I stayed mana open for spellstutter+stifle with a mishra and 2 island in the field...that makes mishra useless , and mutavault a good resource.
So I don't need that extra 1 in defence of mishra or the possibility to give a +1/+1 each other for the attak phase,with grim/fire/spellsnare/stifle i found the aggrocontrol matchup easy , and with jitte in sideboard we could manage a goblin...( with many problems but we could)

To reduce the possibility to draw multiple copies of mutavault I cut the number of manlands to 2 ... making the manabase more solid .( Without renunce to library)

---------------------------------

Another reason is becouse the cut of brainstorm/ponder-s after the restriction...increase the medium mana-cost of control/combo decks...so using only 2cloud of faeries to support spellstutters is not enough...drawing a mutavault makes much easier to protect the deck from yawgmoth's and tinkers ... that could be problematic. ( Thirst of knowledge/Twister as well )

---------------------------------

To my side I could say that I tryied many configurations ...
2mutavault 1mishra's factory
3mishra's factory
2mishra's factory 1mutavault
3mutavault
All with and without Library...but I think that 2Mutavault and 1Library is the best choice 

---------------------------------

Happy to have explained a good part of the deck  ! see ya!

Hi to everyone!

Omnistrife@ Hi!I saw your meta in morphling.de and i discuss with my friends that is full of oath °_° ... crazy!!!
 I have tested my oath matchup with a guy that have 1800+ DCI points ( so i guess is a valid tester ) and we found that the game is very 50/50 in the 1° game a bit more % for us post side... This because the protection pool of this deck is very valid:
4force
3daze
3stifle
2snare
(4 spellstutter)
+1snare 2reb postside that take the place of 2sage of epityr and 1grim lavamancer.
-----------
12+4 preside
15+4 postside
-----------
Those are quite landstill numbers of protections...but the very important thing is that we could reach a point to control the game...not only put some 1/1 and ninja ad have 1-2 force/misdi backup...here we have a good pool to remain mana open and try to control the game...i found that this is possible and i didn't need cards like calice & rod ... but for a fast storm meta i could pick 2 pillar in side , to get some advantage.( But the matchup is very close to 50/50 even without it)
Instead of usually fish , here we don't have dead draws , only active spells Protections/creatures/Boardcontrol ... and for have a storic comprehension of the deck ... before this list we played 1misdirection & 3° bounce spell ... now we switch the 2 with merchant scroll & mystical tutor to get closer to a more control list ...( virtually with 3f/ice 2bounce 2tutors if we have a ninja in play we don't be afraid of a fast colossus too , we could found a solution)

But if your meta is full of oath that's not a bad thing ... u could use Annul / goblin bombardment in your sideboard ... the potential of fish is that is very very versatile to every field.

------------

Tarmogoyf & Grunts are big guys , we have some problem with them if we don't reach to put in play our ninja ... if we have ninja we would have much problems with it ... we could tap it and go in advantage with ninja and put every turn a chump blocker , or go to bounce and backup counter...we could do a usually cloud of faeries/stutter@2 on second turn or spell snare(3x with the side)...or making mana denial to the green land with stifles & wastes ... for grunt is more complicated but with grim+fire we have a good matchup with fishUW so we could play around it.

And finally 1/1 with jitte is the best solutions for them  i think ... i think that we don't need others card in the sideboard to manage them , in some matchups ( control with tarmogoyf/ak/drain/yawghmot that is very popular here in italy) we put inside 2x relic too ... and goyf slow us a bit but we could play well around him.

--------------------

Prometheon@ 22 mana without brainstorm and the need to reach 3 mana in play for playing stutter+stifle/reb/snare ... after some wastes ... convince me that 2 sage of epityr are the minimum to play.
He reduces mulligans and as OmniStrife had say ... filter cards to draw ... and more ... we don't use nullrod , so a cursecatcher is usefull only on first turn ( and i don't have slots to take 3-4x of them) and if we do a good manadenial with gorilla & wastes &stifles ... but there i think a cursecatcher is only a more winner.

--------------------

Moxlotus@NullRods - Pillar - Misdirection - Calice ... are protections of the old style fish that i dislike ... now i'm trying to go in a new way of aggrocontrol where we don't need to make them asymmetrik , i wan't no dead draws and only spell that make play or protections.
I'm not saying its a bad card ... only that playing spellstutter as critters & counter instead of rod/calice we gain a good counter pool of cards.
Here in Italy many fishUR are playing like that with good results ... but if u like rods too much , u could found 2 slot for a 2x of it ... sure not more.

hi this is my list of a Fish UR version that is doing well in ITALY ...in very similar builds it's making many TOP8 ( Finals too ) in 50+ people tournaments.
Personally I won 2 P9 , a Library with FishUR and i think to be a good tester for this arktype.

Amadio Alessandro aka Garathiel - DCI 1204665721

Stutter Fish

Maindeck (60):

2 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island

4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Mutavault
1 Library of Alexandria

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus

22
------ : ------
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours

3 Gorilla Shaman
1 Grim Lavamancer

2 Sage of Epityr

2 Cloud of Faeries
4 SpellStutter sprite

16
------ : ------
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Stifle
2 Spell Snare

12
------ : ------
3 Fire-Ice
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of vapor

5
------ : ------
1 Brainstorm
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

5

tot 60


SideBoard
2 Relic of progenitus
1 tormod's crypt
2 energy flux
3 ingot chewer
1 smash to smithreens
1 hurkyl's recall
2 red elemental blast
1 spell snare

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here some good replyes:

1@Omnistrife@ Hi!I saw your meta in morphling.de and i discuss with my friends that is full of oath °_° ... crazy!!!
I have tested my oath matchup with a guy that have 1800+ DCI points (so i guess is a valid tester) and we found that the game is very 50/50 in the 1° game a bit more % for us post side... This because the protection pool of this deck is very valid:
4force
3daze
3stifle
2snare
(4 spellstutter)
+1snare 2reb postside that take the place of 2sage of epityr and 1grim lavamancer.
-----------
12+4 preside
15+4 postside
-----------
Those are quite landstill numbers of protections...but the very important thing is that we could reach a point to control the game...not only put some 1/1 and ninja ad have 1-2 force/misdi backup...here we have a good pool to remain mana open and try to control the game...i found that this is possible and i didn't need cards like calice & rod ... but for a fast storm meta i could pick 2 pillar in side , to get some advantage.( But the matchup is very close to 50/50 even without it)
Instead of usually fish , here we don't have dead draws , only active spells Protections/creatures/Boardcontrol ... and for have a storic comprehension of the deck ... before this list we played 1misdirection & 3° bounce spell ... now we switch the 2 with merchant scroll & mystical tutor to get closer to a more control list ...( virtually with 3f/ice 2bounce 2tutors if we have a ninja in play we don't be afraid of a fast colossus too , we could found a solution)

But if your meta is full of oath that's not a bad thing ... u could use Annul / goblin bombardment in your sideboard ... the potential of fish is that is very very versatile to every field.

------------

Tarmogoyf & Grunts are big guys , we have some problem with them if we don't reach to put in play our ninja ... if we have ninja we would have much problems with it ... we could tap it and go in advantage with ninja and put every turn a chump blocker , or go to bounce and backup counter...we could do a usually cloud of faeries/stutter@2 on second turn or spell snare(3x with the side)...or making mana denial to the green land with stifles & wastes ... for grunt is more complicated but with grim+fire we have a good matchup with fishUW so we could play around it.

And finally 1/1 with jitte is the best solutions for them  Very Happy i think ... i think that we don't need others card in the sideboard to manage them , in some matchups ( control with tarmogoyf/ak/drain/yawghmot that is very popular here in italy) we put inside 2x relic too ... and goyf slow us a bit but we could play well around him.

--------------------

Prometheon@ 22 mana without brainstorm and the need to reach 3 mana in play for playing stutter+stifle/reb/snare ... after some wastes ... convince me that 2 sage of epityr are the minimum to play.
He reduces mulligans and as OmniStrife had say ... filter cards to draw ... and more ... we don't use nullrod , so a cursecatcher is usefull only on first turn ( and i don't have slots to take 3-4x of them) and if we do a good manadenial with gorilla & wastes &stifles ... but there i think a cursecatcher is only a more winner.

--------------------

Moxlotus@NullRods - Pillar - Misdirection - Calice ... are protections of the old style fish that i dislike ... now i'm trying to go in a new way of aggrocontrol where we don't need to make them asymmetrik , i wan't no dead draws and only spell that make play or protections.
I'm not saying its a bad card ... only that playing spellstutter as critters & counter instead of rod/calice we gain a good counter pool of cards.
Here in Italy many fishUR are playing like that with good results ... but if u like rods too much , u could found 2 slot for a 2x of it ... sure not more.
2 umezawa's jitte



2@ Hi breed!

Choose the right number of manlands was a little difficult ... but after many testing I learn that I was attaking very few times with mishra , more often I stayed mana open for spellstutter+stifle with a mishra and 2 island in the field...that makes mishra useless , and mutavault a good resource.
So I don't need that extra 1 in defence of mishra or the possibility to give a +1/+1 each other for the attak phase,with grim/fire/spellsnare/stifle i found the aggrocontrol matchup easy , and with jitte in sideboard we could manage a goblin...( with many problems but we could)

To reduce the possibility to draw multiple copies of mutavault I cut the number of manlands to 2 ... making the manabase more solid .( Without renunce to library)

---------------------------------

Another reason is becouse the cut of brainstorm/ponder-s after the restriction...increase the medium mana-cost of control/combo decks...so using only 2cloud of faeries to support spellstutters is not enough...drawing a mutavault makes much easier to protect the deck from yawgmoth's and tinkers ... that could be problematic. ( Thirst of knowledge/Twister as well )

---------------------------------

To my side I could say that I tryied many configurations ...
2mutavault 1mishra's factory
3mishra's factory
2mishra's factory 1mutavault
3mutavault
All with and without Library...but I think that 2Mutavault and 1Library is the best choice  Very Happy

---------------------------------

Happy to have explained a good part of the deck  Wink ! see ya!

3@Oath -> 45% preside - 47.5% postSide
We have snare and good counters to slow him , but our finishers are little creatures so the math would never be so positive ... but even not bat at all.

AKcontrol combo -> 65%preside - 60%postside
We have manadenial , hard counters like reb & spellsnare , and ninjas make the match problematic for him...merchant/mystical/chain/echoing/ice are good solutions to a tinker->bigOne.

Combo -> 55%preside - 47.5% postside
Stifles & spellstutter could make big problems for the 1st match.
Post side our surprise effect is vanished , if he have a good sideboard we must see the right cards to reach a good manadenial...if u can't ... go for fast ninja hoping your hopponent don't have too much forces to protect his bombs.

Artifact -> 40% preside - 65% postside
not good if he start in the 1st match , but postside we have many slots ... an easy match if u have done some tests with this arktype.
U need to know the hand to mulligan , counter & destroy only the right thing.

Manaless-> Hope to have a wasteland->preside / 60% postside
Hope for wasteland/daze/stifle preside...
Go for relic/ingot/wasteland in the second...

4@Breed@ Thank u for testing my list , hope u comment your results and post your feeling with the deck after. Very Happy

Bongo@I tried 2x Standstill in the place of Mystical tutor & Merchant Schroll to backup the draw engine ... and i don't like it very much ... we only have 2 man lands and few critters , If u like u need a draw cards u could replace a card in the list for 1xGush !!! It equilibrate the loss of the 2° grim lavamancer ... we gain manabase solidity in the mirror match ... with reb postside we could go for Nolook draw searching for counters with mana in pool...and its synergic with library/mystical tutor/sage of epityr...i like it.
With the Gush i think u could cut 1x wasteland to take a lotus petal or a manacrypt ( ninja , jitte , energy flux ... it works!!!) and make the deck more aggressive.

EDIT <- A first version of the list played 4standstill 4manlands(2muta2mishra) 2ninja , no tutors ... but it was before the last litation of brainstorm & ponder , where a spellstutter was countering every spell in the field ^^'... now the manacost is rised and we must try to accelerate the beat down...without loosing the control.  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Enjoy!!!

I think that now the deck is much similar to Dark Tang , an italian vintage deck.

4confidant
2/3 of the new ninja cc3 ( don't remember the name)
without critter cc1 , and full of 3stp , brainstorm , ponder , mystical , sensei's , stifles
grunts + kataky + nullrod

I would suggest 1x merchant_scroll + 1x echoing truth

The salmon fish

mana base
4x wasteland
1x strip mine
3x mishra's factory
1x library of alexandria
4x polluted delta
4x volcanic island
3x island
1x mox ruby
1x mox sapphire


Fishes
4x spellstutter sprite
3x cloud of faeries
3x grim lavamancer
2x gorilla shaman
1x waterfront bouncer

Drawers
4x standstill
3x curiosity
1x ancestral
1x brainstorm

Tools
2x sigil of sleep
1x crucible of worlds
1x timewalk

Protections
4x Force of will
3x Daze
3x Stifle
2x Mana leak/miscalculation

Sideboard
4x propaganda
1x tormod's crypt
1x reb elemental blast
1x blu elemental blast
1x energy flux
2x ingot chewer
2x viashino eretic
2x kira

--------------------------------------------

Fashion news for us , we are in a follouted world but our waters are clean and life continue...!!!
Some technic advices:

mana base
4x wasteland
1x strip mine
3x mishra's factory
1x library of alexandria
4x polluted delta
4x volcanic island
3x island
1x mox ruby
1x mox sapphire

22 , -black lotus , -4° mishra , we need more spells and we don't need many mana , only 2 to go.

--------------------------------------

Fishes
4x spellstutter sprite
3x cloud of faeries
3x grim lavamancer
2x gorilla shaman
1x waterfront bouncer/Looter il kor

7x Faeries it's ok , evasive critters.
Only 5 red critter because of some scriew in the tests , now we are rock solid.
1x tech slot , looter is good to dig into the deck ... with curiosity is a draw two discard one ... much more than a free brainstorm every turn...But bouncer is more solid ...don't know wich is better.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Drawers
4x standstill
3x curiosity
1x ancestral
1x brainstorm

i prefer 1x brainstorm above 4° curiosity because we have already 5 enchant creatures , that is much.
no ponder/mystical/merchant scroll

----------------------------------------------------------

Tools
2x sigil of sleep
1x crucible of worlds
1x timewalk

sigil is our bounce resource , with an evasive critter or grim lavamancer we have a costant way to bounce ... repitetively the best opponent creatures.
Crucible because without gushes our 5x strips is very powerfull .
Strips & Manlands recursion is great vs every decks ... only vs gushbased deck and faster combo is useless.

-------------------------------------------------

Protections
4x Force of will
3x Daze
3x Stifle
2x Mana leak/miscalculation

I tried to take only the more usefull cards.
I cut Red Elemental Blasts , Misdirections , Negates ... i choose for 2x Leak and 3x Stifle , the best.

The salmon fish

mana base
4x wasteland
1x strip mine
3x mishra's factory
1x library of alexandria
4x polluted delta
4x volcanic island
3x island
1x mox ruby
1x mox sapphire


Fishes
4x spellstutter sprite
3x cloud of faeries
3x grim lavamancer
2x gorilla shaman
1x waterfront bouncer

Drawers
4x standstill
3x curiosity
1x ancestral
1x brainstorm

Tools
2x sigil of sleep
1x crucible of worlds
1x timewalk

Protections
4x Force of will
3x Daze
3x Stifle
2x Mana leak/miscalculation

Sideboard
4x propaganda
1x tormod's crypt
1x reb elemental blast
1x blu elemental blast
1x energy flux
2x ingot chewer
2x viashino eretic
2x kira

--------------------------------------------

Fashion news for us , we are in a follouted world but our waters are clean and life continue...!!!
Some technic advices:

mana base
4x wasteland
1x strip mine
3x mishra's factory
1x library of alexandria
4x polluted delta
4x volcanic island
3x island
1x mox ruby
1x mox sapphire

22 , -black lotus , -4° mishra , we need more spells and we don't need many mana , only 2 to go.

--------------------------------------

Fishes
4x spellstutter sprite
3x cloud of faeries
3x grim lavamancer
2x gorilla shaman
1x waterfront bouncer/Looter il kor

7x Faeries it's ok , evasive critters.
Only 5 red critter because of some scriew in the tests , now we are rock solid.
1x tech slot , looter is good to dig into the deck ... with curiosity is a draw two discard one ... much more than a free brainstorm every turn...But bouncer is more solid ...don't know wich is better.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Drawers
4x standstill
3x curiosity
1x ancestral
1x brainstorm

i prefer 1x brainstorm above 4° curiosity because we have already 5 enchant creatures , that is much.
no ponder/mystical/merchant scroll

----------------------------------------------------------

Tools
2x sigil of sleep
1x crucible of worlds
1x timewalk

sigil is our bounce resource , with an evasive critter or grim lavamancer we have a costant way to bounce ... repitetively the best opponent creatures.
Crucible because without gushes our 5x strips is very powerfull .
Strips & Manlands recursion is great vs every decks ... only vs gushbased deck and faster combo is useless.

-------------------------------------------------

Protections
4x Force of will
3x Daze
3x Stifle
2x Mana leak/miscalculation

I tried to take only the more usefull cards.
I cut Red Elemental Blasts , Misdirections , Negates ... i choose for 2x Leak and 3x Stifle , the best.

i think we could use with some success a great card ... ghost quarter ...

Bitterblossom give another structure to the deck , we would play more moxes ... and with more moxes we could play also tarmogoyfs ... and so ... trinket mage , or tinker ... and why not Pyraxian dreadnauth

I would remain in a UR deck , trying to upgrade the original UR landstill that we sometimes play.

Thanks!

Hi there , in the last 2 months i was playing a particular decklist that i made ... after I saw a nice card like - spellstutter sprite -

-
- card advantage
- beater

What a nice card!!!
I take a landstill list and i tried to broke her limits.
Duress was a great problem for landstill , and spellstutter could give us more chance to make  2 active counters(or more) in a turn.

Duress - Black Lotus - Ancestral - Reb - Brainstorm - Fastbond - Negation Pact ... ecc ...with some help like cloud of faeries & mutavault we could counter something of casting cost 2 , in late game we could counter cc3 too like yaghmoth & thinker.

Stutter_Still v1.0

lands:24

4x wasteland
1x strip mine

3x Mishra's Factory
3x Mutavault

4x Polluted Delta
4x Volcanic Island
3x Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Library of Alexandria


board_control:4
2x Fire/Ice
2x Echoing Truth

artifacts:2
2x Crucible of worlds

control:15
4x Force of Will
3x Stifle
3x daze
3x Spell Snare
2x misdirection

enchantment@4
4x Standstill

Creatures:11
3x gorilla shaman
2x ninja of the deep hours
2x Cloud of faeries
4x Spellstutter Sprite


SIDEBOARD

3x Ancient Grudge
3x Pyroclasm
4x Tormod
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Energy Flux
1x Seasinger

I made top16 and win the Unspo best price (ancestral recall) in a 145 persons tournament like Empoli's DDay 2008 here in italy.

After that i tried some changes and made a powered version that made 2 final in a few weeks ... ( 2time walks split in final = 1time walk wins)

And here it is...the powered version that i'm using now.


\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

STUTTER STILL V2.5

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manabase@23
colored:13
2x island
4x Volcanic Island
4x fetch
1x black lotus
1x mox sapphire
1x mox ruby
nocolored:10
5x slandi
3x mishra's factory
1x mutavault
1x library of alexandria

protections@14
4x Forse of will
3x spell snare
3x daze
3x stifle
1x negate

utilities@7
1x chain of vapor
1x echoing truth
2x fire/ice
1x time walk
1x crucible of worlds

drawers@7
4x standstill
1x ancestral recall
2x ninja of the deep hours

Creatures@10
4x spellstutter sprite
3x gorilla shaman
2x cloud of faeries


SIDEBOARD
2x threads of disloyalty
2x tormod's crypt
2x pyroblast
2x ingot chewer
2x eretico viashino
2x grim lavamancer
1x shattering spree
1x energy flux
1x misdirection

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Standstill is quite a good cards even now.

If the deck is consistent , like 1/3 of it are counters the only problem is to gain the board control.

In the first 2 turn our opponent would play not so many creature spell that increase his board control , if he made we would counter only the thing that we could manage ( like goyf/driad/atog/welder ) or bounce it EOT and casting standstill in our ... hoping to find a counter if our opponent would cast it again.

That's why i made quite 1/3 of the deck as counters.

Yes there are so many 1x , but don't forget the structure of the deck.

23manabase
4standstill 1ancestral 1timewalk
1/3 protections
utilities
3mox denials

mox denials are gorilla shaman in this case , a good choice because its an 1/1 beater , and spellstutter sprite is a counter spell , but a 1/1 beater too ... so the deck use the usual cards for a normal standstill , but the gain of clock and the reliability of those cards is a good step forward for the archetype ( gorilla eats so many things ... and is good vs chalice@2that broke the deck) .

manabase@23
colored:13
2x island
4x Volcanic Island
4x fetch
1x black lotus
1x mox sapphire
1x mox ruby
nocolored:10
5x slandi
3x mishra's factory
1x mutavault
1x library of alexandria

protections@14
4x Forse of will
3x spell snare
3x daze
3x stifle
1x negate

utilities@7
1x chain of vapor
1x echoing truth
1x fire/ice
1x magma jet
1x time walk
1x crucible of worlds

drawers@6
4x standstill
1x brainstorm
1x ancestral recall
1x Fact of Fiction
1x ninja of the deep hours

Creatures@10
4x spellstutter sprite
3x gorilla shaman
2x cloud of faeries


SIDEBOARD
2x threads of disloyalty
2x tormod's crypt
2x pyroblast
2x ingot chewer
2x eretico viashino
2x grim lavamancer
1x shattering spree
1x energy flux
1x misdirection

I'm trying a some new cards ...
fact or fiction
negate
brainstorm
magma jet

I need to see how they works , i moved misdirection to my sideboard 'cos artifact is too much diffused now to have dead cards in the main deck the 4 new cards are more reliable vs all the field.

I think i should prefer to reduce ninja's & don't touch the number of the faeries , using more direct counters ( like negate ) and brute istant drawing ( like fact ) and some tool to manipulate the deck ( brainstorm&magmajet ), if we topdeck a brain under standstill we will be happy to see when the time come ( knowing that in the deck there aren't anymore )

Hope you like the deck.

Full of Tools , a little randomic , but efficient and very very fun i think.

( I'm reading the posts thank you nevermore )

I know that the deck isn't optimal! That's sure.

The first tournament that i play with it is the DDay Empoli 2008 ... and i tested it only for few matches before that event ... before that event i made a top8 in Lucca2007 168 players with 7wins - 2 I.D ... and a loose in the top8 from one of the first artifact+Sword of fire ice ... and i was playing a UR sligh Unpowered , so i think to be a player that knows the rules and have some tricks  .

The deck "need" improvements because when I tried this idea in the real tournament , was the first time in my life that I play a standstill , so Errors in the deckbuilding is normal I think...hope to don't make others 

Anyway , some stategy:

- I have 2mana open , 1spellstuttersprite+another_protection and 1standstill in hand ... I usuallly say "go" and keep spellstutter open , so when i cast standstill i have a 1/1 beater ( plus 4manlands in the deck for the powered version) , so we have a 20 turn clock if we don't find the manlands , and usually a 6 turn clock with a manland in play ... i think that a normal standstill would have a 9 turn clock (Fire/ice , fetches , forces)

- Sometimes under standstill i have 2creatures and a manlands ... I usually beat with the 2 creatures ( 10 turns clock ) and stay open with the mana ... i prefer a  10 turn clock staying mana open for counter that beat with the manland too and give a (5 turn clock) but tapped out.
°many times , only when i think that my opponet wouldn't broke standstill next turn i beat with manlands too , or when i am in flood

So i accept some lack in the protections/removal with a gain in clock and mana open.

p.s. I like mystic remora ... but i think she improve a matchup that we don't need ... the control combo match , could you tell more of this choice please?

Thank you all!




 

there are few things that i would explain better.

The deck would do some mana denial to play with success DAZE , wastelands & strip + stifles ... in plus of it i take 3 slot for moxes denial.

a)moxes denial:

- An Earlier version of the deck uses Null rod , but i disliked to have only 4x Standstill ( +1 ancestral in the powered version) to make card advantage , we need another drawer. I found in ninja a good replacement of this lack.
- Ninja make some card advantage , beat without using our mana ... and recycle our spellstutter sprite ... but for use ninjas , i need more creatures , so null rod became gorilla shaman

Pro of Gorilla
° he destroy moxes , pithing needle , chalice of the void@2 , sphere of resistence( and he bypass thorn of ametist)
Lack
° he is quite useless vs solring & black lotus & lotus petal & artifacts with abilities ... triskelion , karn , ravager , jitte , sword of fire/ice
Exception
° we could sometime counter a sol ring or a black lotus with a spellstutter sprite , that is quite good and compense the lack above.

b)manipolation denial:
to make mana denial more complete , we need to counter the opponent spells that manipulate his deck like BRAINSTORM , SENSEI'S DIVING TOP , PONDER(sometimes too).
Spellstutter sprite make a good work with mana denial.

You are right sayng that this is a strange landstill , i think that its an hybrid , i must made some decisions ... take more creatures and became a fishlike , or trow out ninjas and cloud of faeries and became more landstill.

I need more tests & helps from the community.
And yes , i'm here to know what you think of it.
Thanks!

Hi there , in the last 2 months i was playing a particular decklist that i made ... after I saw a nice card like - spellstutter sprite -

-
- card advantage
- beater

What a nice card!!!
I take a landstill list and i tried to broke her limits.
Duress was a great problem for landstill , and spellstutter could give us more chance to make  2 active counters(or more) in a turn.

Duress - Black Lotus - Ancestral - Reb - Brainstorm - Fastbond - Negation Pact ... ecc ...with some help like cloud of faeries & mutavault we could counter something of casting cost 2 , in late game we could counter cc3 too like yaghmoth & thinker.

Stutter_Still v1.0

lands:24

4x wasteland
1x strip mine

3x Mishra's Factory
3x Mutavault

4x Polluted Delta
4x Volcanic Island
3x Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Library of Alexandria


board_control:4
2x Fire/Ice
2x Echoing Truth

artifacts:2
2x Crucible of worlds

control:15
4x Force of Will
3x Stifle
3x daze
3x Spell Snare
2x misdirection

enchantment@4
4x Standstill

Creatures:11
3x gorilla shaman
2x ninja of the deep hours
2x Cloud of faeries
4x Spellstutter Sprite


SIDEBOARD

3x Ancient Grudge
3x Pyroclasm
4x Tormod
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Energy Flux
1x Seasinger

I made top16 and win the Unspo best price (ancestral recall) in a 145 persons tournament like Empoli's DDay 2008 here in italy.

After that i tried some changes and made a powered version that made 2 final in a few weeks ... ( 2time walks split in final = 1time walk wins)

And here it is...the powered version that i'm using now.





Stutter Still Powered V2.0

manabase@23

colored:13
2x island
4x Volcanic Island
4x polluted delta
1x black lotus
1x mox sapphire
1x mox ruby

nocolored:10
4x wasteland
1x strip mine
3x mishra's factory
1x mutavault
1x library of alexandria

protections@14
4x Forse of will
4x spellstutter sprite
3x spell snare
3x daze

utilities@11
3x stifle
1x mystical tutor
1x chain of vapor
1x echoing truth
2x fire/ice
1x misdirection
1x time walk
1x crucible of worlds

drawers@7
4x standstill
2x ninja of the deep hours
1x ancestral recall


others@5
3x gorilla shaman
2x cloud of faeries


SIDEBOARD
2x threads of disloyalty
3x tormod's crypt
2x pyroblast
3x ingot chewer
2x viashino heretic
3x grim lavamancer

Sorry for my english.
Hope to have some nice feedbacks from you all , that's my first post.

Alexander.