Lou - I took Brett down in the 3rd round Sunday, in a great match finished by the topdeck of the day.  I might type up a little tournament report if general results get posted.  He got his revenge in the Top 8, but I think my performance deserves a man-junk proxy!

Hello friend,

Looks a lot better than the first list.  I'd let go of the orb/bond/crucible thing.  It's just not a good enough combo to warrant 3 spots.

Broader stuff:  it looks like you're leaning towards an oath deck, which is great, but youre gonna need the full 4 oath and 4 orchard to do it right.

If this were in my meta I'd run a single Forest for wasteland/magus protection, but that's up to you.

Good luck!

At my local tournaments printout slips are allowed only if the entire deck uses them(or has slips behind the card to equalize thickness).  But even this, I feel, leaves open avenues for cheating.  I don't think it is a sign of "paranoia" to be concerned over the potential for cheating lent by paper slip proxies.  And if you think that the actual probability of a vintage player doing this is rather low, I am inclined to agree, nonetheless the principle of the thing must have some consideration as well.  In a format where we allow people to play decks which have the potential for foul play, it only takes one greedy little bastard in a room full of gentlemen to spoil the whole thing.  Why take the chance?


What about a piece of printer paper is there to take pride in?  I think that artistically hand draw proxies are far more enviable, ones where the maker removes the original paint and interprets the original art, with or without text depending on the card being proxied.  By comparison little paper slips look rushed and trashy.  Sorry this is off topic, and a matter of opinion as well, but I think it's worth saying.

I think you should trade in the Isamarus and Lions for creatures which provide more disruption.  If you want to stick to one mana for the slots, how about Cursecatcher..or you could just add more Canonists/Grunts?

How about Pithing Needles SB to deal with Painter and Tezz?

At my last tournament I played 4 Negates, no drains, and not once did I regret the decision.  An argument could be made that in some matchups, Negate is just better than Mana Drain.  I won't make it here, but at least consider the possibility.

I'm not sure I agree with the conjurer's bauble.  You're choosing it because it is a combo piece like spellbomb, except that it cantrips for 1 less mana--but it seems to me that  more cantrip cost is a fair price to pay for added DSC protection.  So I would advocate a 2nd spellbomb there.  In my build, I have a second intuition in that slot, which you have already made a point for as a one-of.



I see a significant difference between the shells of Tezz and Bomberman--Tezz doesn't have the aggro option like Bman often does.  A standard complement of 3-4 Trinket mages are in each, but then Bomber has 2-3 Salvagers, plus a few Mindcensors, Ethersworn Canonists, or other little beaters.  Bomberman is more closely related to fish and Tezz is closer to Slaver.  It seems like a pretty significant difference,  either of the two could be the better option given the meta.

It's worth noting that Aekhold's list is a direct contradiction of my argument, but it seems geared more towards a quick combo win than most. 

Hello, my name is Jon, I live and play in Boulder CO.  I have played casual vintage on and off since about 96, but only in the last few months have I decided to take a swing at Tournament vintage.  I've been to three local tournaments at the local comic store "Time Warp", playing Slaver at the first and Bomberman in the two more recent ones.  I made Top 8 for the first time just this month.  My wife, Kate, also plays a bit, but she appreciates the casual formats more than the tournament ones.

I have a B.S. in physics from Fort Lewis College, and I work in sales at a precision optics manufacturer in Denver.  Anybody in the area send me a message, I'd love to find new people to playtest with.

Mana Vault and Crypt would serve as better accelerants than the SSG with storming out in mind.  Although perhaps this is a moot point now that the whole Lotus Bloom thing has been addressed.

I don't think the Chrome Mox has any place in a deck like this, you don't have any major draw engine that would allow you to throw away card advantage for imprints.  In any case it makes little sense as a one-of.

Can you really rely on the opponent having useful/playable cards to steal off Trance/Will.  It seems like a shaky premise to me.  Not to mention the  to start it up is a lot to ask for in a reasonably short time frame. 

Don't sweat DSC.  With TFK having it in hand is pretty much a non-issue.  Could you explain how the Isochron typically plays into your strategy? 

There are so many superior options to Counterspell, I think you should consider before resorting to it.  Negate, Spell Snare are common ones, but for a little more mana Cryptic Command is powerful in mono-blue.

Could probably stand 1 or 2 more land.

Generic board control instead of EE/Keg?  Hmm lemme get back to you on that one.

If you're going to run 4 Trinket Mage, it might be nice to expand his toolbox.  Pithing Needles and Tormod's Crypt might be helpful, but if you take on a lot of aggro then maybe Aether Spellbomb or Pyrite Spellbomb could be better.  In the case of those last two, you can always just give your mage a cantrip for 2 mana.  I find this is occasionally helpful in situations when there is no particular silver bullet I need.

Another thought--Guile is fair but you might be better served by Tezzeret.  Maybe you don't want to go that direction, but if you can force him down then I imagine he would be a more effective win condition than guile.  Also gotta second mans' opinion--Tinker/DSC seems a pretty clear improvement.  Tolarian Academy as well.

Good call on switching out Powder Keg for Engineered Explosives, although you might get more mileage out of it if you could find a place for more non blue mana sources besides the moxen.  It might even be worth having a sprinkle of another color and some duals to get with the Flooded Strand.  Besides whatever advantage you might garner from the new colored cards themselves, the synergy boost with EE will be noticeable.  I would question effectiveness of EE in a monocolored deck, with only moxen to explode the larger threats.

Vedalken Shackles seem an odd fit to me.

Okay, well I'm no expert but that's my input.  Good luck with your build.

Well, I have gotten some good input, both from here and from further playtesting since I posted.  Here is the second version, complete with sideboard:

Anti-Storm Bomberman Rev A:

Maindeck:

Lands

1 Tolarian Academy
1 Tolaria West
1 Plains
4 Island
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand

Artifacts

1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Mana Vault
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Mana Crypt

Creatures

4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Trinket Mage
3 Auriok Salvagers
1 Darksteel Colossus

Instants/Sorceries/Enchantments

2 Intuition
1 Brainstorm
4 Negate
1 Tinker
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Force of Will
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Mystic Remora
2 Trickbind
1 Time Walk


Sideboard:

3 Tormod's Crypt   (vs Ichorid, Worldgorger, or additional help against TPS/Yawg Will)
2 Pithing Needle    (Ichorid mainly, other troublesome activated abilities)
2 Engineered Explosives  (vs Ichorid, clean up zombies, or as a general removal spell)
2 Meddling Mage   (Switch out for Canonist in non-storm matches)
2 Augury Adept    (Same as Mage)
1 Echoing Truth    (Ichorid help, DSC, general bounce needs)
1 Merchant Scroll   (To get Ehoing truth, or something)
1 Meekstone         (Shuts down DSC, Negator, Goyf.  Helps post SB vs storm)
1 Library of Alexandria    (Help against mirror, slaver, etc)


Tournament is this weekend, so any further critiques are greatly appreciated.  The matchup vs TPS is now over 60% favorable, so I feel like I've done what I set out to do.  Now watch me get paired with MUD for 3 rounds...

Last tournament I tried 2 Tezz, 1 Time Vault, 1 Voltaic Key.  It sounded good in principle, but I hated it by the end of the day.  Tezz is just so expensive that he fails me in a deck not set up to play him ASAP, and the Voltaic/Vault thing is inconsistent at best, a straight drag on your resources most of the time.  Each is worse than useless on its own.

You and Nine are really pushing the MD Tinker/DSC, so I will bow to those with more experience and give it a try.  I'm thinking -1 Merchant Scroll and -1 Ponder to put them in.

I think Mindcensor is a crock in general, never liked to play with it in Bomberman or anything else really.  It is standard and solid, but not particularly impressive most of the time.  The Canonist is a better answer to storm, IMO, and cheaper too.

Adding black would stretch the manabase too thin, I think.  I am happy with 8 counters as disruption, if I really need much more than that I probably shouldn't be playing Bomberman.  Furthermore I would have to wreak havoc on the rest of the deck to find a place for Duress's.

Are you saying use Crucible to re-transmute Tolaria?  Can you do that?

Have you had a chance to test the Meekstone out yet?  How is it?  Im thinking I might want one SB.

What about the possibility of running fewer TFK?  You have a ton of draw, which I'm sure helps to accelerate the combo out at times.  But in the other thread you mentioned that running so many draw cards leaves you lean on disruption.  Would it be worth switching out, say, 2(or more, potentially) TFK to find a place for more control stuff?  The slight anti-synergy between TFK and Thoughtcast is another reason this might be a good idea.

Another thought:  your main justification for SB Spell Snare is Null Rod.  Now obviously it is handy against another Drain deck, but if it's primary purpose is Rod defense, wouldn't you be better served by Disenchant/Seal?  On a similar note, is there a lot of Fish/Rod in your area?  Or is Null Rod just popular in general?

Thanks for your input.

You are probably right about the Spellbomb.  I hate not having it once I hit the arbitrary mana loop, but I suppose Intuition could pull it out for me just as easily.  I do worry about the decreased defense against DSC, but I guess I'm just gonna have to live with that.

Mystic Remora is such a sleeper against Storm, but the key is to be able to draw into Stifle/Trickbind/Orim's Chant before they can finish you off.  I think Remora makes more sense when there are more anti-storm cards available to find once the massive drawing begins.  I witnessed a Bomberman build that ran 4 Remoras INSTEAD of TFK and managed to take 2nd in a 30ish man tourney, so it obviously has potential, at least in my storm heavy meta.

I like the Tolaria West idea, but it makes more sense in your build where you can seek out either the Lotus OR the Lodestone Bauble.  I am still testing it though, as I like the ability to fetch that single Chalice in a pinch.

Do you think that the Spellbomb itself is not a sufficient bounce spell to defend against DSC?  Or were you thinking more like Null Rod/artifact defense?  I am hesitant to put in something like Echoing Truth MD, especially in that I feel that the Merchant Scroll is itself on the chopping block.

You are right about the speed of the combo.  I have a tendency to push for a combo win, which is dumb in general and suicidal against storm.  Bman's biggest asset is its ability to choose to be an aggro, combo, or control deck given different opponents.  I suppose the key is knowing what role to play, and pushing to be combo all the time is not the way to get it done.

Concerning Tinker/DSC, I had planned on leaving it in SB, and waiting to use it in a Null Rod matchup.  I know it's the easiest way to win in vintage, but it's so common that I don't like to lean on it maindeck only to see a Chain of Vapor end my party.  Do you think it is crucial MD or can it remain in SB?

Mana Vault would be slightly less punishing(than Mana Crypt), if still a little scary using standstills.  I love Ethersworn Canonist as an answer to storm, additionally with the inclusion of white mana you could switch out Ophidian for Augury Adept(I suppose you could do this even without the white)  I've found that the Adept is helpful against storm also, since often a TPS/Nauseam player has to work hard to squeeze out just enough damage, and the life gain from Adept can give you an extra turn or two to hold off their onslaught.

Do you end up using Clique to cantrip yourself most of the time or is it more of a duress effect?

Forgot about Tezz, he's no ham sandwich.  And you're right, just DSC is still plenty with infinite turns, so long as you don't go to time.

How about Etherium Sculptor over Helm of Awakening?

Hello everyone.  I'm new to Mana Drain as a poster but have been reading for some time.  I have become attached to the Bomberman archetype, but in my meta Storm, specifically TPS and Nauseam, dominate the field.  I have been working on a version of Bomberman which plays to its Fish roots, and puts a bit more focus on storm disruption.

I have found that it has a reasonably favorable matchup against a typical TPS build, but unfortunately my opponent is often myself, and I am a far-from-proficient TPS pilot.  I'd like to get some input and criticism if possible, especially from capable storm players who know what they should fear most 

So here it is, Anti-Storm Bomberman:

Lands

1 Tolarian Academy
2 Plains
4 Island
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand

Artifacts

3 Aether Spellbomb
1 Mana Vault
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Mana Crypt

Creatures

4 Athersworn Canonist
4 Trinket Mage
3 Auriok Salvagers

Instants/Sorceries/Enchantments

1 Brainstorm
2 Negate
1 Merchant Scroll
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Force of Will
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Mystic Remora
2 Mana Drain
1 Stifle
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder

Rough Sideboard:
Pithing Needles, Stifle/Orim's Chant, Tormod's Crypt, Meddling Mage, maybe another Chalice, other meta stuff.


I will try to give an explanation for what I see as non-obvious choices below:

The land balance - Wasteland scares me.  2 duals are plenty, 4 Fetch are required.

Lotus Petal - an extra bit of acceleration.  Could be an Island...?
Engineered Explosives - terrible against storm, I know, but my next biggest concern is Ichorid, whose zombies are nicely dispatched by EE.  Also great against spheres.
Chalice - comes out consistently with 4 Trinket Mage.
Athersworn Canonist - this is more of a fish card, but it is a wonderful lock on storm. As long as she is carefully defended from bouncing, she can swing for the win with the help of any trinket mages/salvagers.
Negate/Mana Drain - this split is just me riding the fence in a decision as to whether or not Mana Drain is really worth it, given how much more effective Negate and Mana Leak are against Storm.  The more I play it, the more I prefer Negate, but Mana Drain has such potential that it's hard to let go of.
Mystic Remora - I saw another, more experienced Bomberman pilot rock this suckerfish against Storm, and I have been pleased with it as well.  It would get SB'd out for most non-storm matchups.  Maybe it belongs in the SB itself, I don't know for sure.
Stifle - maybe Orim's chant would be a better fit?  Either way, more copies will exist in the sideboard, once I get a little input here and put a solid one together.

Any criticisms are greatly appreciated, please let me know what you think.

If your local tournies allow proxies, wouldn't it make more sense to go ahead and get proxy-powered up, so you can get used to it as effectively as possible? 

A friend of mine tried to make Time Vault work as a central win condition and had a lot of success with Transmute Artifact.  It would probably pull out combo pieces better than Intuition.  I assume that Regrowth and Yawg's Will are there primarily to compliment Time Vault and Voltaic Key in a gifts package, but I don't think they are really worth it. 

Running Thoughtcast over Thirst for Knowledge is an interesting choice.  I count 16 artifacts, including lands, which seems a bit low to make Thoughtcast the better option.  I would start with TFK, then later consider upping the artifact count to see if Thoughtcast is viable.

So DSC is your only win condition once you establish turn-lock?

Here are a few SB choices I might consider:
Pithing Needle could protect you from Ichorid nearly as well as Tormod's(Tormod's is still good though), but additionally can be pulled in to protect your artifacts from Goblin Welders.  Also it can shut down Bomberman, Charbelcher, Fetchlands, etc.
Chalice of the Void will help to slow down storm decks.  Other options towards this end are Ethersworn Canonist and Orim's Chant.  I have found some success with Mystic Remora as well.
In my local meta at least, anti Ichorid and Storm are more of a sideboard concern than creature removal. 

I believe my artifact count was about 15 plus 6 artifact lands back then.  Perhaps what pushes you over the edge into Thoughtcast feasibility is the CotV's, which could very well make the difference between a consistent 2 mana Thoughtcast and a 3 mana one.

I completely agree that Engineered Explosives is a worthy Trinket Mage target.  Running 4 mages makes EE nearly an auto-include, at least in my meta.  I would not advocate Spellbomb as superior to EE in any way, at least as a one of.  What I am worried about is that you have only a single card that truly wraps up the game once you go infinite with Bomber, and you may have already exhausted your Trinket Mages pulling out the Lotus, or whatever.

I see how the Bauble allows you to run without Time Walk, that had not occurred to me.  Nonetheless, is Time Walk really that bad early game?  I suppose it's a matter of opinion to some degree, but it is rarely so useless as to be merely a cantrip for me.

I want to throw out another thought on this--you mentioned Negate and Mana Leak at various points.  Perhaps this is blasphemy in these parts, but is Mana Drain really superior to either of these counters in Bomberman?  I rarely develop a significant advantage off drain mana, and the UU cost makes it too slow against storm.  More and more it's better to get Negate online first turn than to sit on a Mana Drain.


I find that if Canonist is already on the board vs storm, you should never find a need to play a non-artifact spell and open her up, rather the highest priority should be protecting her--her own clock(combined with a likely trinket mage) is enough to win it.

How often do you end up boarding out most of your Chalices?

I tried running 4 Thoughtcasts for a while in a similar Bomberman build but did not find it as useful as you do.  Granted the mana cost could get down to 2 sometimes, but more often than not this was the best case scenario.  In the end, Brainstorm and Ponder were more effective, and I also had some success(superior to Thoughtcast, at least) with a splash of black and Night's Whisper.

I have only begun playing Bomberman in the last few months, and I am new to Mana Drain.  Allow me to ask a few more questions about your card choices;

Are the 4 CotV really worth the loss you incur by forcing yourself into the Lodestone Bauble combo?  Don't get me wrong, it's clever as hell, but it seems that Aether Spellbomb is much more useful outside of the Bomberman combo.  Because of this, it makes sense to play with more than just a single copy(of Bauble or Spellbomb) thus making your combo all that much easier to achieve.

Where's Time Walk? 

My solution to the storm/combo problem has been a single maindeck Chalice, with help from Trinket Mage, and 4 Ethersworn Canonist.  Canonist really rocks storm, often even more effectively than Chalice @ 1. 

Does the Divining Top do much for you?  It gets a lot of trash talk in other threads, and I've not found much use for it in my Bomberman.  Mana Vault is a better fit IMO, but I'd like to hear what you have to say on the matter.