Turbo Bazzar Parfait is the best deck in the format.  It has all the tools you need/want.

Just kidding.  There is no best deck in the format.  Just read the forums, you will find what decks are good/competitive.

Verbal warning. See related point C
 
-Jacob

Well, you probably shouldn't post this kind of a post.  Instead you should most likely PM someone and ask for help, or jump on IRC and ask for some help.  

However, in the spirit of helping, if you PM me with a link to a picture that you need resized, I will certainly do what I can.

Ok, lets keep this moving.  What does everyone think is the correct number of manasources to be running?  I've heard everything from 22 (good god) to 25.  I've been running 23 but have been mulliganing a bit too much for my tastes as well.

So assuming we are running 24 for the moment, that seems to be
8 SoLoMoxenCrypt
4 Delta
1 Strand
4 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea/Basic Swamp
4 Basic Islands
2 Seat of the Synod
1 Strip Mine

-1 of the above as I'm at 25 total.

Which do I cut?  Is a second Seat going to be better than the 4th volcanic?  Has the Strip Mine been that good for people?  I've been moderately dissapointed with it, but it's also never all that bad.  Do I really need to cram in another basic island?  I know that the meandeck list on starcity (in the doomsday article) ran 5 basic islands but only 1 artifact land.


Regardless, this discussion is has been extremely productive in my opinion.  Thank you all for your responses.

I'm going to echo everything the Luke said.

I can't imagine playing pent, dup, and platz.  I know most people have been playing only platz, but I managed to squeeze in a pentavus as well.  But I can't see that the 4th welder wouldn't be better than the 3rd of that set.  (And realistically, I'm probalby going to drop the pentavus if my metagame gets better.  Pentavus > scrubs, but not the best choice in a totally streamlined metagame.)

2 Slavers is a must.

The black splash is interesting.  I was formerly of the opinion that you either ran both will and demonic, or neither.  This was because of the need to add enough black mana to support them.  But then I realized the error of my ways (through looking at the mean-deck list) and a single sea + will is really enough.  Toad seems to think it might be better as a single swamp, but I'm not sure.  It's a question of whether drawing that as your second land (no mana drain) is better than risking it being wastelanded and thus never casting yawgmoth's will.  I think the first is MUCH worse, but that's my metagame.  I think that turn 2 drain is key.  Though in most cases, you won't draw that specific land, and can fetch at your leisure, thusly making the issue mostly non-important.


A basic mountain is pretty worthless as you can't fetch it.  (unless you are playing with red fetches which would be a HUGE mistake, as blue is by far the most important color.  Though I must admit, some fish decks switched to 1 red fetch and 1 mountain for a while, so that's like 2 possible chances to get it.)

I'm actually quite interested in peoples thoughts on running a Seat of the Synod instead of (or maybe in addition to) the darksteel citadel. I don't think I would run 2 citadel, but maybe 1 and 1.  Everything is just so much easier when you don't have to include the land in your intuition. You can intuition for slaver, slaver, crucible, as opposed to either slaver, crucible, land, or not having infinite slaving within reach.


Again, what are people taking out to sideboard in 5 cards vs oath.  I'm just not sure what's happening here.


And thank you to everyone who has commented on the thread.  It's been really quite helpfull.

So it's pretty clear that about 5 cards are necessary for this match, what have you guys been siding out?

I'm been mixing thing around with a strange mix usually involving timewalk, and a Thirst or Fact or Fiction, Pentavus, an AK and 1 other card, but I really don't have a firm grasp on what exactly to take out.  (Just as reference, I'm playing a list almost exactly like the final list in Cinamon's article here: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=8410  I have 23 land (which should probably go up by 1) and 1 extra welder and pentavus.

Or should I be playing the AK game?  I guess I could take out 4 ak and an intuition and be done with it (especailly as the pentavus will probably become a land in the near future).  Does anyone take out like 2 AK?

What do you guys think?

I'm curious; in what ways should one adapt the way they play?  I must admit to being mostly clueless about how this match goes down.  I've tried goldfishing against myself (I don't have a real playtest partner) but in the control-control matchup especailly when I'm inexperienced with oath, I doubt it's really helping much.

I've also had the experience that in playing against oath they just ALWAYS seem to do either turn 1 or 2 orchard oath with at least 1 force backup.





Why would you do that?  There's only 1 black card in the deck.  Again, not bickering, just trying to figure out the reasoning there.

I'm glad you all approve.  I like the picture almost as much as the pumpkin itself.  The coolest thing about the thing is the eerie green light that the chemical sticks make.  Candles are for pansies who like orange light.  Green-orange teeth just screem Hulk to me.

Perhaps I will post a follow-up picture of Hulk-Smashed at a later date.

In the spirit of Halloween tomorrow, I will show my pumpkin carving skeelz.

http://doorman.homelinux.org/images/matts_pics/magic/psych-a-lantern/psych-a-lantern_dark_800.jpg

a version in the light is here:
http://doorman.homelinux.org/images/matts_pics/magic/psych-a-lantern/psych-a-lantern_light_800.jpg

Other sized images can be seen by changing the "800" above to either "1600" or "3200".


Specail thanks to Spankweasel AKA DaWeeze AKA Drew for takin ghte pictures with his SWEET new camera.


I will probably take this link down in a week or so, but it will be available via PM if you want.

I have a few concerns about this deck.  It seem to lack non-survival discard outlet.  If I can counter your survivals, I think I pretty much win.  I think that was really the reason for the workshops in TNT, that you could cast your fat and get the counters out of their hand, and then do the survival-welder thing.  

Yes, I understand they are totally different decks, the comparison is usefull none the less.

I could be totally off base here, but this is kind of a combo deck in that it's threats are small in number but large in effect (as opposed to an aggro deck with lots of small threats) But most modern combo decks have something to protect their combo (TPS) or hope to power through it (Draw 7, DeathLong) or both (Dragon)

I don't want to be antagonistic, but how does this deck recover from a countered Survival? (That's not a pissy, retorical question; I actually want to know if/how it does it.)

Edit: clarity and grammer.

For what it's worth, we are still in the "get people to play more type 1" stage, and as Eugene doesn't have all that many singles, much less type 1 singles YET, we should allow as many proxies as possible.  Thus in the debate between 5 + $0.25/proxie, and 10 + $0.50/proxie, I imagine that most people are at 10-15 proxies wanted.  That costs $1.25 to $2.50 extra from choice 1, and $0 to $2.50 extra for choice 2.  If we need more than 15 proxies, things are just getting ridiculous, and thus I vote for 10 + $0.50per.

As for dates, I just simply don't give a shit.  But as soon as you announce the "first person to beat last week's champ" prize, I WILL dissapear into the bathroom to claim my prize.

On that note, what should I play?  White Weenie, Mono-G Land Destruction, or W/r Shahrazad-Fork?

Wouldn't it make more sense for Eugene to buy cheaper power so he doesn't lose money at these things?  As much as I would like to win Beta power instead of Unlimited power, if we can keep the tournaments happening, then I don't really care.

So can your metagame really support the crucibles?  if it can, then bloodmoon would probably be better.

If you do add the fanatics, then the lavamancers are probably better after that.  I do believe that the magma jet isn't all that good.  I think I would rather run incenerate, (though I do agree that chain lightning is the correct choice), but as I said, I haven't tested it in zoo.

The way I see it, your deck is so redundant that the scry isn't all that good except for keeping lands away.  but that's probably not as good as 1 more damage.

For your meta that seems like a pretty good deck, though the shamans don't seem all that good for you.  (only because of the meta)  I would like to see more lava mancers (but then again, I'm a fish player).

The only questionable card, main deck is magma jet.  I'm not sure how good that is, but I'm not going to scold it as I have no experience with it.

I can't imagine how you don't have artifact mutation in the board (or main deck if your metagame had more workshops).  That card is really your best chance to win a LOT of games/matches.

Fractured Loyalty seems a bit strange, but it may be your only chance to deal with huge creatures.  There's gotta be a better card, though to be honest, I can't think of one right now.  If you are just looking for answers to workshop and affinity decks, I would point more towards artifact mutation.  It doesn't stop the broodstar or Shapeshifter, but fractured loyalty is such a bad card.

Other than that I think you have a good balance of creatures and burn.

I just want it to be known that I earned like 30 door prizes last night.    (Who would have throught your mom's photo had such staying power!)

Funny Hat Matt?  You don't like my back-woods-camo boonie hat?  I'm not gonna be able to show my face again.  I am however a HUGE fan of daze in fish.  Not in anything else though.  (maybe GaT...)  But seriously, you are right about type 1 being more relaxed.  It's all about fun, and picking the right metagame deck.  (I've decided that they are all metagame decks now days.  Powerful, but still only good in certain metagames.)




They were your words not mine.  


I just want to play more type 1 during the week.

Hey clown of tresslehorm, errr...  Fluffer of Freek-A-Leek, does this imply that I'm somehow a member?


Report coming soon.

Edit:  Reports are no longer coming soon.


Ok, so let me start this off with a HUGE thanks to 2 people.

Drew (spankweasel)  Unfortunately, he's pretty pissed at the game of magic right now, and is also getting married so he let me borrow a lot of power as well as threw a lot of decks against me so I can get a little better with this simple yet complex deck.

DiceMan  It's nice to see some people on TMD are willing to help out a non-experienced player and help them get a little better.  It was selfless and hopefully I was able to contribute to the conversation just a little.


Ok, decklist time:

BUG Dragon:

Win:
4 Dragon
1 Ambassador
1 Sliver queen

Engine:
4 Squee
4 Bazaar
4 Compulsion (should go to 3 unless I see a lot of 4cc)
1 Ancestral

Search:
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Intuition
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
(Lim-Dul's Vault is fucking amazing; demonic is pretty weak, but so is vamp and intuition.  I'm going to try 3 Lim-Dul's Vault, 3 Intuition, 0 demonic, 0 vampiric)

Animates:
3 Necromancy
4 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead (gonna try dropping this)

Disruption:
3 Force of Will (normally 4)
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Pernicious Deed (people ran 1 MD ground seal last time, and platinum angel sucks)

Mana Sources:
1 Brack Rotus
3 On Color Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Off Color Mox
(0 Sol Ring)
(gonna try to work in the other mox)

4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp (co-mvp all day)
1 Island (co-mvp all day)
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
(in retrospect, I should switch these and run 2 island, 1 swamp, 2 bayou, 1 tropical)


Board:
3 Null rod
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Sundering Titan
3 Verdant Force
2 Pernicious Deed (1 main)
1 Coffin Purge (Because people like to side in 1 blessing.  I know how to play around it, but that puts stress on the deck which usually isn't there.  So I will match their cheese-dick sideboard strategy with my own.  :-/ )


On to the report:
So this tournament only has 18 people, which SUCKS!  It sucks for many reasons but most importantly it means that a few 3-2 players are going to make top 8.  I hate that shit!  HATE it!  (more H8...)   I see a lot of welders, specifically from the top players, and try to remember how to get around platinum angel.

Round 1, GreenKnight with Control Slaver:
Game 1:
I lose die roll #1 and mull to 6.
His turn 1 brainstorm gives him tinker which kills my land and gives him fat on turn 2.  I didn't think blue had 'geddon effects...
Game 2:
Side out 3 FoW, 1 Mana Crypt, 1 Intuition, 1 Demonic.  Side in 3 Verdant Force, 3 Null Rod.
I mull to 6 he mulls to 5.
Turn 1 swarm, turn 2 vault, ... so crunchy.
Game 3:
We both mull to 6.
He counters Null Rod, He counters Xantid Swarm, He doesn't counter the other null rod, and doesn't counter the win either.
Zack is a GREAT guy.  He really enjoyed Gen-Con and was giving props to Razor and the rest all during his stories.


Round 2, r3as0n with 5/3:
I lose die roll #2
Game 1:
I force something devastating, pitching ambassador.
He applies those welder beats.  But stops after 2 "applications".  (Uh oh.)
I vault for the win, with 6 mana available, bazaar down, and demonic in hand.  He has a welder and mana for thirst.  I'm thinking about that platinum angel and that the key card to this win is deed (and I just happen to have 1 main) so I do the sensible thing: tutor for deed, and go off with my vaulted animate.  Only then do I see that I'm as smart as your average houseplant and I cry as I mill away my deed.  :-/  I make 1 ass-ton of slivers (we make a token...) and he proceeds to tinker for platinum angel.  He had welders in the yard, and I was too mad at myself to realize that with 2 more animates, I can draw the game.
Game 2:
Side out 3 swarm.  Side in 3 verdant force.
I'm way off my game now due to my mistake.  But it probably wouldn't have mattered.  Su-chi is kicking my ass fast enough that I have no choice but to hope he's bluffing the BEB.  He isn't and I don't have any permanents.

Well, 1-1 isn't so bad...  <sob/>

Round 3, Del with Cinnamon Blue:
I lose die roll #3
I mull to 6, he doesn't.
He Kegs away an early swarm, but he doesn't find Back to Basics and my draw out paces him.  He doesn't have 3 counters in hand when I have 6 mana and swarm, animate, and dance.

I don't remember exactly what I boarded, but my guess is: -3 Fow, -1 Mana Crypt, -1 Demonic, -1 Intuition, +3 Verdant Force, + 3 Null Rod.  (The deed might have come out.)
He chalices for 1, but loses a lot of cards fighting semi-dead swarms.  When he taps out for morphling, I cast necromancy, the second one in hand isn't necessary.

2-1 and recovering from my mistake induced stupidity.

Round 4, Ryan with Bazaar Madness:
I lose die roll #4
He comments that this is a race as neither of us run much disruption.  I mostly agree, and am pretty sure I have the upper hand.  Force > Circular logic and I'm theoretically faster than him.
Game 1:
I mull to 6 and should have mulled again.
I don't see a dragon despite drawing considerably more than half my deck.  Swarms and animated swarms can only chump block for so long.

Game 2:
My notes are bad and I have NO idea what I sided.  (Most likely tried to bring in deeds and verdant forces, and probably took out the swarms.)
I mull to 6 and should have mulled to 5...   again.
I keep a hand with squee, mox jet, vampiric tutor, sliver queen, animate dead, and land, and proceed to not find another tutor, or a dragon before it's too late.  Sliver queen is a good chump blocker but not forever.  He keeps 2 blue open for the 2 cards in hand, and true to form, both are circular logics.  I again draw more than half my deck and don't find a dragon, or enough tutors to get through his 2 counters.

2-2!!!  I'm fooked.

Round 5, Ben with Affinity:
I lose die roll #5
My deck is 1 turn faster than his, but on turn 2 he has 6 artifacts on the table, a disciple, and 1 card in hand.  He draws, plays Tolarian academy (oh no) and casts ancestral with no other cards in hand, floating 5!!!  He then enters his attack phase showing me 3 lands.  I combo him out with lethal damage staring me in the face.

Game 2:
Side out 3 swarm, 1 swamp, 1 intuition.  Side in 3 Null Rod, 2 Deed.
I mull to 6 as does my opponent.
I don't see any of my board cards but I also don't care.  He isn't able to apply much pressure (1 Frog, 1 worker, 1 shrapnel blast) and I combo out with out much trouble.


Ok, so I'm 3-2 and can't tell you how much I like tournaments where the number of people is screwed up and will let in a few "3-2"s.  I love that! LOVE IT!  (more <3... ) Always have loved it too!


Top 8 is cool as I'm there with 3 other friends and we are evenly distributed around the pairings.  If we all win we can have some sort of top 4 split...  But that's just not to be.

Quarterfinals, Sam with U/r Fish:
I lose die roll #6 of a possible 6.
His turn 1 lavamancer, turn 1.5 daze my compulsion, turn 2 cloud, standstill looks pretty strong.  I wait until I have swarm, 2 animates, and a "yarded" dragon to cast anything.  My recurring swarms keep his hand empty as he has to play spike tail, null rod, sac the hatchling to counter the null rod just for cards in the yard to lavamance the swarm.  His hand depleted, he is unable to apply much pressure or stop my combo.
Game 2:
Side out 3 Fow, 1 Mana Crypt, 1 Intuition.  Side in 2 Deed, 3 Verdant Force.
His turn 1 Lavamancer, turn 2 cloud, shoot my xantid is pretty strong.  Standstill turn 3 has me not so happy.  I have 2 animates in hand and 2 necromancy while he beats down.  I think I break the standstill with a swarm which he shoots and counters my animate.  He plays a spiketail and the beats are starting to put me in the area where I have no options.  I can't keep a xantid on the board so I try to animate the dragon.  He tries to remember how to break the loop with stifle, eventually he does, I necromancy in response (which I actually think is illegal in retrospect because I didn't have any permanents to tap (mental note: tap the mana NOW!!!) and I don't have enough to pay for the spiketail's ability.  The situation was very complex due to his confusion, and my doing everything in my power to allow him to mess up the stifle.  But in the end justice was served and he won the game.
Game 3:
He keeps a bad hand, and I combo out turn 2 or 3.

Semi finals: Shawn with 7/10 (a deck I've never seen in action)
I cheer out loud when I win my first die roll of the day.  (Not even in bullshit games before the tourney did I win a die roll.)
Game 1:
I combo out turn 3 as he desperately thirst to find wastelands or platinum angel.
Game 2:
Side out 2 Swarm, side in 2 Deed. (Not having played this match ruined me as I didn't side in null rods.)
His land, lotus, welder, welder, scrabbling claws(?!?!?!) turn 1 is enough to beat me.  It just takes a little time of me trying to animate stuff to "spend"his claws and failing, until he finds a titan and swings a few times.
Side in 3 Null Rod.  Side out (can't remember)
This game is pretty close and he gambles to play tolarian academy for memnarch at some point instead of recurring a wasteland.  This gives me the match as I combo out through his grimace.

Finals:
I split with Godot and we play for fun.  His report is better than mine so read it above.  I win, (despite losing yet another die roll) and get to claim my first power tourney smiting.


I gotta give props to EVERY SINGLE opponent.  They were all extremely friendly, and good to play with/against.  No bullshit, no cheating, no assholes.  Really made for a great day.
Props must also be handed to Spankweasel and Diceman for reasons listed above, and to r3as0n for loaning/trading me 4 more cards...
The store hosted a smooth, fun, great tourney; the first of many I hope.

We just gotta get more Denver/Ft. Collins players to show up.  Come on guys.  Where the fuck are you?

Toad was right, you simply MUST run crucible.  There is no other deck where crucible is more important in my opinion.  Also many versions run green, allowing for an oath aideboard, but also a main deck fastbond, which is just wonderful in this deck.  

But you gotta figure out a way to squeeze in a pair of crucibles.

Now, I haven't entered any huge tournaments in a while, so take what I say with a grain of salt.  But I have found that the best card in the mirror was the Firewalker.  That card, once it hit ruled the board, or at least ruled it enough to keep a lavamancer around.

That said, with old scurey men running around, that may not be the case anymore.

I think that ReB is now more key than before.  As is Fire/Ice.  As for amounts, I will defer to everyone else's judgement.

Ok, so as this forum has the tendency to be nothing other than crappy decks, I figured I would post a question about a GOOD deck, but from a NOOB's (me) perspective.

Lets take the gen-con winning build as our example:



I have a REALLY hard time sideboarding with this deck.  The choices on what to bring in are relatively easy (though I think I might be over-boarding by wanting to bring in too many cards), but I have NO idea what to take out.  (Classic NOOB problem, I know.)


So lets take 4 examples and explore them:

Fish and WTF/r  (maybe the boarding pattern is different...)
Artifact Fat
4cc
and lets throw in some general aggro-control (GaT or U/G madness or Super Gro or...)


How are you guys sideboarding?


(Mods, if this is an innapropriate question, I do appologize.  I figure that it's most appropriate to ask in the NOOB forum, so I put it there.)


[Edit] :
I have bene playing with a different sideboard, and thusly don't really have a good plan to start this discussion off with.  I guess I could post my guesses, but I put this thread in the NOOB forum for a reason.     :lol:

And psychic purge could be part of your 4 purge, 4 guerilla tactics, 4 chalice boarding strategy against draw 7.  

Or at the very least you could side them in against JP.  

I don't understand how you can play a land inbetween the FS and the madness Arrogant Wurm.

When is the stack empty?

Not trying to be difficult or disagree, I just don't understand it.




Wouldn't playing a land prevent you from casting the Wurm then?



I guess as a follow up question, how to multiple madness spells work?  


Now I believe there is a way that Player B doesn't have to spend both blue mana if Player A chooses to not pay for the first Circular Logic (and thusly could play an end of turn AK).  Is this correct?
I think this happened in some pro-tour somewhere and was key to the win.  Anyone else remember that?  The commentary on Sideboard.com refered to "Blah has played a lot of Magic Online and was really familiar with the timing rules with madness..."

What do you guys think?

That was EXACTLY the type of response I was looking for.  

I personally believe that 1 copy should be in the deck, but I'm really leary of running fewer than 8 4cc fatties.  I think I will test him in the spot that many people run Karn in.  I haven't been happy with Karn at all since I took out the tangle wires.

I know the reasons to run the SS, I'm just hoping to hear from people who have had some top level experience with him.  Is his "lack of pressure" detremental enough to override his card advantage?  Obviously, with an active welder he becomes disgusting, I'm just more curious to know if people are finding that to be worth it.  

As an example, how often (in decks with out the SS) do you lose when you have an active welder?  If that answer is "virtually never" then I don't think that Jens should be in the deck.  But if people are looking for a mid-late game punch even after the welder has been established than it might make sense to run one or two.  

I think it's pretty much the same issue as the sylvan library.  If you can keep an SotF on the board, then sylvan library becomes STUPID GOOD.  But is that turn worth it.  And do we win more matches with the addition of the sylvan library than we would have without?  I'm tempted to say that it doesn't help that much because with a survival on the table, you should be able to keep the threats coming regardless.  

But all that said, I have ZERO high level experience with this deck, and I would like to hear of some specific examples that top 8 folks have had.

How did you feel your simulacrums did for you that day?  I'm having a hard time justifying them, but I haven't heard from people who liked them.

Would you still run 3 over the 3rd Su-chi?

When were they great?  When were they not-so-great?

I'm certainly skeptical about the simulacrum, so I would really like to hear from some of the people who have placed highly in big tournaments running Jens.

In what situations are people finding him usefull?  Would a Su-ch be sufficient in those situations?  what about a trike?

I find it really hard to run less than 8 Juggs + Su-chis.