GAT is poised to resurge in the current meta, and in my l...

[eddavatar]

On Bloodmoon: That's why i run 2 Islands in my personal build. It's just a great feeling to have when you know you still have a shot against blood moon.

On Stifle: It's a sideboard card at best. And even then I think i've fetched stifle for ZERO time so far post gush restriction. The demise of Long might even imply that boarding it's not necessary. Also, It's usually more preferable to fetch it when the situation arises, rather than sitting dead in hand sometimes.

Grand Inqusitor: I share your sentiment on the scepter exactly. I always think that scepter's good when u can imprint it early. But in GAT, often having a scepter early's luxury. So I'm skeptical on it. But i promise i'll test it out soon.

[wollblad]

Everyone that sofar has rejected the scepter so far has done it with the motivation "loss of temp". Sure the deck has lost much of its tempo since Gush became restricted, but the deck has also changed accordingly. Misdirections and Daze have become Mana Drain. This change makes the play quite different. If you have a Mana Drain in your opening hand you do not want to rush out a Dryad since you cannot protect it. Instead you have to go for pure caradvantage until you can use the mana from the Mana Drain to also get board possition. It is at this moment you can play your Scepter and your Dryad giving you one permanent to draw cards and one to kill you opponent with. In this part of the game you have more than enough mana to activate the Scepter and protect your Dryad. In conclusion the deck has nowadays a slower start but when permanents are palyed the kill comes quickly. This senario, that the scepter is played after a while also motivates my inclusion of only two Scepters.

I am not saying that it always looks like this. Sometimes you get position to get a Dryad out quickly protected by FoW much like in the old days, but then you often don't have cards to grow your Dryad with. The deckbuild with Mana Drains demands a different and more controllish playstile, and when the positions are right, the Scepter becomes even more explosive than the naked spells alone.

[Psionic]

I agree with Wolblad in that GAT has lost much tempo since Gush, and I think instead of trying to recover that tempo using less than effective techniques, or live with the loss of tempo, we should adapt GAT into a more aggro-control deck than it was.  

The meta should start to see a slight slowdown since Long.dec got hit hard and Dragon will be hit with MD hate.  The scepters are gold by giving us removal, card drawing, and fatter Dryads.  And if you imprint an AK/recall/etc, you can always Wish it back and drop that AK in the yard and have it start working for you.  

I agree that maybe 3 Scepters is overkill, and I edited the decklist to: -1 Scepter +1 'Tog as per everyones comments.

Psionic

[Grand Inquisitor]

Quote  am wondering what are your thoughs on stifle maindeck?  I have found them to be very helpful but its hard to tell if they are really worth the slot.  I am not running any wastelands so I cant go the mana denile rout but stifleing a fetch is great tempo

Quote I don't think stifle mainboard is worth it.  It may randomly mana screw someone who is playing fetchlands and it stops deed but I still believe that it is too situational at this point to deserve a slot mainboard

Quote On Stifle: It's a sideboard card at best

I think this stifle issue is completely a metagame call.  I play in the NE, which is thick with Control, Combo, and the occasional Workshop or Fish.  I'm currently running two
maindeck stifle, and they have been great for:

protecting my lands from strips
owning all of dragon's tricks
tendrils or other storm effects
my opponent's counters when they fetch in response
pernicous deed/powder keg
scepter imprints
countering decree's cycle effect
academy rector
WMUD's stack effects

I even stopped an early LoA activation, which gave me the one turn of tempo/card advantage to force through the win.  As far as playing the "mana denial" game, you'd be surprised how much of an advantage it is in the control mirror to drain someone's sol ring, and then stifle their fetch.  That's three mana per turn they were expecting, and blue vs blue is often all about developing your board so you can cast your bombs.

Quote Everyone that sofar has rejected the scepter so far has done it with the motivation "loss of temp". Sure the deck has lost much of its tempo since Gush became restricted, but the deck has also changed accordingly. Misdirections and Daze have become Mana Drain. This change makes the play quite different. If you have a Mana Drain in your opening hand you do not want to rush out a Dryad since you cannot protect it. Instead you have to go for pure caradvantage until you can use the mana from the Mana Drain to also get board possition

I agree with this argument for scepter.  I've always run mana drain in dryad-based decks (even 4 gush GAT).  However, my problem with scepter isn't only with the tempo loss, its the card dis-advantage as well.  It takes six mana as well as two or three turns before scepter is card advantage (assuming mana drain, brainstorm, f/i).  A lot can happen in that amount of time, including wish->'generic artifact removal' on the other side.  During this two-three turn window, you have one less card to protect your scepter, and/or stop them from resolving a bomb.

An example of this was at the Waterbury tourney, when I was playing a teamate (billtheduck) for a T8 spot.  He won a counter-war over scepter, and imprinted ancestral recall.  I untapped, and dropped future sight.  He still got two activations out of the scepter, but the loss of short term card advantage, and especially the tempo loss caused me to pull way ahead and take the game.

I don't want this to look like I'm completely dismissing scepter, its just that its had very real limitations in the control matchups I've played.

Quote While Bloodmoon in and of itself may not be a problem if you have the opportunity to Fetch an Island, C.Wish and BEB it doesn't happen as often as we'd all like to think

If I see workshops or volcanics early in Game 1 of a match, I may fetch a basic island, just out of safetly.  If I know for a fact that they're running bloodmoon, I may even tutor for Black Lotus early.  I've certainly lost games to bloodmoon, but if you have even one blue source, you should have a chance at getting rid of it.

If anyone has scepter lists they want to share, I'd like to see them.  Although I'm testing all sorts of things right now, my list from Waterbury is:

GATr
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Psychatog
1 Gorilla Shaman
3 Quirion Dryad
2 Fire/Ice
2 Isochron Scepter
3 Cunning Wish
2 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Gush
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Future Sight
1 Yawgmoth's Will

SB:
2 Hydroblast
2 Pyroblast
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Stifle
1 Coffin Purge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Crumble
1 Berserk
1 Naturalize
1 FOF
1 Smother

The changes I'd probably make are dropping tormod's crypts for more coffin purges (dragon now runs MD stifle), and dropping a hydroblast for lim-dul's vault (its been very good for me).

[Flurp™]

I cut the stifles from my deck for scepters, here is the list I am testing now:

GAT

4 Quirion Dryad
3 Psychatog

4 AK
4 Brainstorm
1 Gush

4 Force Of Will
4 Counterspell
3 Misdirection
3 Duress

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Cunning Wish

2 Scepter
2 Fire/Ice

4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
1 Island

SB:
1 Beserk
1 FoF
1 Stifle
1 Misdirection
1 BEB
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Crumble
1 Naturilize
1 Coffin Purge
1 Ebony Charm
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Tormond's Crypt
1 Prenicious Deed

This is a list for my scrubby meta, obviously its unpowered.
I am thinking about a second Fire/Ice because they are just so good, not to mention hot great it is to imprint one on scepter.

[blue_negator]

I think wollbad's situation comes up quite frequently for me.  A dryad with a fire/ice on a stick is awesome.  Not only are you tapping permanents you are also growing the dryad and drawing cards at the same time.  I listed a partial list earlier but here's the exact list i'm playing at the moment

//NAME: Star Wars
// Lands
        2 Flooded Strand
        1 island
        4 Polluted Delta
        3 Tropical Island
        3 Volcanic Island
        3 Underground Sea
        1 Library of Alexandria
// Mana Artifact
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Sol Ring
// Jedi Mindtricks
        2 Misdirection
        4 Force of Will
        4 Mana Drain
// The Force
        1 Gush
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        1 Time Walk
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Mystical Tutor
        4 Brainstorm
        3 Accumulated Knowledge
        3 Isochron Scepter
        1 Future Sight
        3 Fire/Ice
        3 Cunning Wish
// The Jedi
        3 Quirion Dryad
        2 Psychatog

The having scepter in hand with nothing to imprint situation comes up once in a while but not often enough for me to cut down to 2 scepters.  The deck has so much drawing and searching power that it's not hard to find something to imprint.  Sometimes I would even DT for a scepter instead of the default ancestral.  So far i've been playing against Urphid (non bloodmoon mainboard version),  rOSE,  Keeper variants, Workshops decks, and some other random controllish decks.  So far it's the deck has been doing really well.  I dunno maybe it's because i'm a crazy topdecker    

[Flurp™]

Only three AK maindeck?  Do you have one in the side?  I think that it is manditory to have 4 AK in the maindeck.  I also dont like the three scepters, I have always found 2 to be enough.

I am wondering what people think about duress in GAT?  The card is just amazing, and I have had good experences with it, but I have noticed that many decks dont run it in their deck.  I would like to hear explanations against running it (or for running it).

[blue_negator]

Well i cut the 4th AK to the SB for a 3rd fire/ice.  But i play 3 scepters though... It's just a personal preference i guess.  I personally don't like duress in GAT.  Maybe hulk but not GAT.

[Flurp™]

Well I have mixed feelings about duress, It is great to duress turn 1 and play dryad turn 2, but sometimes it seems like its not needed.

only more testing will tell.

[eddavatar]

Just barely tested out scepters tonite. Comments: Darn, they're silly. I've win a few stoopid games w/ scepter that has ancestral/mana drain/naturalize/ak w/ 3 in yard....but there's also a couple games where it got stuck. But in general it's just crazy. I think i wouldn't object putting a couple in, thought 3 would be excessive.

I cut duress for the scepters. It didn't seem to be too much of a trouble, although i kinda miss it. I think i'm going to remodify the deck to fit'em back in.

[Psionic]

Yes, they do seem to be unreliable, or "silly" as you put it.  They seem to have problems resolving and staying in play.  The nice thing is, the imprint only happens if the scepter resolves.  AKs/Recalls/etc are nice when the opportunity is there, but even a Brainstorm stick can really equate to a huge advantage given a 3-4 unchecked turns of usage.

Psionic

[blue_negator]

resolving it isn't that much of a problem.  Well, i guess not a problem is an understatement.  It's about as easy to resolve as a FoF or future sight or ancestral.  Well easier then fof or future sight since it's only 2 colorless.  Worse case scenario you trade a scepter for their counterspell.  Better case scenario you trade 2 for 1 with their FoW and blue spell.  Best case scenario it resolves and gets active.  And it's about as hard to protect as say a ophidian so...

[Flurp™]

I am wondering what people think is the optimal number of dryads/togs to have.  I have seen some versions with 3 dryad and 2 tog, and others with 4 dryad and 3/2 tog.  Now the configuration might change depending on the build makeing it more aggressive or controling.

[wollblad]

I tested the deck this weekend in a 16 persons tornament that I actually won (price split in the final). I roughly used Grand Inquisitor's build but with the following modifications:
-Sol Ring
-1 Fire/Ice
-1 Cunning Wish
-1 Misdirection
-Future Sight
+ 1 Island
+ 2 Duress
+ Regrowth
+ Fact of Fiction
and some changes in the sideboard. Among others I cut Pernicious Deed and I didn't ever miss the card. I met 2 Rector/Tendrils, 1 B/r Suicide and 1 Dragon. I also faced Keeper and Fish wich I drawed against. I don't see how the deck could loose to Keeper, but I'm more concerned about the fish matchup which I hope to be able to test next weekend. My experiences can be summoned up as following:
- The scepeters were great, never showed up without an imprintable card. They won me a few games and were never a bad play.
- I will not use 4 Dryads, I even think of going down to two, but that might be too few. In one game I actually had problems finding a win-condition.
- In mathups without L.D. the deck contains too much mana, but it is needed when facing Wastelands. There is always the possibility to side out either an Island or the Srip Mine.
- Regrowth was wonderful and actually very good with Scepters since you could regrowth whatever you wanted to imprint. I never felt that it slowed me down. In worst case I could always Regrowth a Brainstorm to improve my hand. The thing that can speak aginst the card is all graveyard hate around nowadays which can render Regrowth a dead card.
- Tormods Crypt is superior to Coffin Purge, at least against Dragon and they worked very well against Rector/Tendrils as well.
- My disruption base felt solid, although one Mana Drain perhaps could be replaced with a Misdirection or a third Duress.