[Deck Discussion] A new breed of combo? Affinity based

[urzas child]

Hey everyone. I'm sure a lot of people are going to pass over this thread based on just that it has affinity cards, but, I've been working on this deck a decent amount, and even if it doesn't get to a completely competetive stage, its still REALLY fun to play.

History of the Deck:

I've been working with a Ravager based deck since Darksteel came out and I saw the card. I started off with the Genesis Chamber route, and then went to just ravager. I was pretty content with 4th turn kills, but the deck wasn't very much fun to play. Then I saw some recent tourny result (Eindhoven (sp?) it could have been, can't remember) which used Auriok Steelshapers basically in the original Duelmen decklist, which i had discarded having great dislike with Arcbound Crushers/Mishra's Workshop/Mishra's Factory. After a little bit of testing and goldfishing, this is what i have come up with:

The Combo:

4 Genesis Chamber
4 Skullclamp
4 Auriok Steelshaper

Now most people would look at this combo and dismiss it because it's a three card combo. But what most people may not realize is that if you have two pieces, chances are, you're going to get the third, FAST. Because none of these cards are restricted, they're much easier to get than say, Braingeyser or Stroke for academy. The 4 Steelshapers are in testing, im thinking of going down to 3 just because after 1, theyre pretty useless. I'm hesitant because theyre a key part of the combo, but like i said, its in testing.

Fuel/Beats:

4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Worker

Pretty basic here. I'm actually thinking of replacing the workers with a 0cc artifact, just because on the rare occasion i actually have to pay for workers (read below), it can be a bitch.

SPEEEEEED:

3 Meditate
4 Helm of Awakening
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timetwister
1 Windfall
1 Crop Roation
1 Fastbond
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Wheel of Fortune

Most of this is self explanatory. One large thing to notice is the lack of Yawg. WIN. This deck, suprisingly does not get a lot of cards into the graveyard, and needs all the mana it can get, and therefore i have found Will to be rather useless for the tiny net gain it will give you. Also, if one playing this deck would ever cast Will, the deck can win by that point.

I'm currently testing the 4 Helm's. 3 are pretty much necessary, but I'm not sure about the fourth though. The helm is so important to get out early, and it leads to the consistant turn 3/4 kills.

The Fastbond is there because if this deck gets the three combo components down, with mana left over or not, this deck WILL be able to combo out, which is the glory about it. Fastbond allows the player to play more lands obviously, which makes those crazy-i-cant-win-this-turn wins happen. Crop rotation is in there because, well, tolarian academy is key, and thats really all there is to say about that.

The Manabase:

4 City of Brass
4 Glimmervoid
1 Tolarian Academy

The manabase is reasonably simple, not much land needed, just multi-colored land and academy. I'm thinking of replacing CoB's with gemstone mines, but I'm hesitant to do so because games can last longer than 3 turns sometimes.

The Kill:

2 Arcbound Ravager
2 Disciple of the Vault

The ravagers I've been noticing recently have actually been un-necessary, because almost always you can get enough things to clamp away to win. Ravagers are still in testing.

Sideboard:

3 Rack and Ruin
3 Stifle
4 Annul
2 Serenity

I can't remember off the top of my head the rest of the sb, but this is the part i remember of it. Most of it is pretty basic seeing the hate against this deck, but serenity is usually the thing that shocks people.  What i figure playing serenity, is that i have lots of other hate, but if i dont draw the other hate and i draw this, i save my artifacts, blow their hate, and go off the next turn. Serenity is still in testing.

Just incase anyone doesn't understand how this deck wins, it get's down atleast 2 of its combo pieces, draws lots of cards, and in the end draw's their entire deck, unloads, and disciple's the opponent to death.

In conclusion, this deck is still in a lot of testing like i said, but I really feel that this has potential. I feel sometimes that it doesnt have enough draw (suprisingly), so I might end up cutting some smaller cards or meditates for cards like impulse (originally in before meditate) and possibly brainstorm. As stated before, this deck may be entirely un-viable, but I'd like to work on it hopefully with people in this forum to make it better

Any comments/suggestions are welcome. Thanks

EDIT: Some people in the "Save these forums" thread are complaining about people writing primer-ish papers just to be promoted. That is not what this is intended for at all. I was a member before the re-vamping of TMD, and I'm perfectly fine where I am now because I wouldn't post much anyways

[darkmindtone]

The deck you're referring too also ran 3 Myr Retrievers, therefore allowing him to go inf. with 2 of them, a clamp, and a steelshaper.  Infinite life loss and draw.  Definetly consider them.

[urzas child]

If I understand you correctly, it's not infinite. I've deifnately thought of retrievers, but the 2 cost is harmful. With retrievers, you would also need 2 helm of awakenings to go infinite, because if you didnt, you'd constantly have to pay for the retrievers, which I can't afford to do. If anything, i've been thinking about myr moonvessel

[Alfred]

I would suggest adding a tendrils of agony as an alternative kill, you would probably only need one. I don't think helm of awakening is such a good idea, as it is uneeded when going off, because most of your creatures are free or cost one mana (which the helm doesn't affect anyway). I would replace helm of awakening with more card drawing, perhaps thirst for knowledge. Your manabase is also pretty poor for a deck that relies on affinity so much.

Here are my proposed changes:

-4 helm of awakening
-4 arcbound worker
-1 Meditate
-2 city of brass
-1 crop rotation
-1 fastbond
-1 Wheel of fortune
+3 Thirst for knowledge
+4 myr moonvessel
+1 Tendrils of Agony
+2 Seat of the Synod
+3 Spoils of the vault
+1 Demonic consultation

With a three card combo, you need more search and draw pre-combo (meditate doesn't count). Your deck is very redundant so spoils and consultation shouldn't be too bad.

[darkmindtone]

True, without 2 Helm's, the combo is not infinite (my fault for not totally thinking it through).  It's still good, but yes the recurring 2 mana cost is not the best in the world.  Anyways, just to throw out some idea's, I'll post two black cards that may do well in Type 1 affinity, although I'm not sure due to lack of testing.  The cards, and my reasoning for thinking they could fit:

No Rest For The Wicked-Possibly a Second Sunrise effect in a color that naturally fits with this deck, and it's 1 mana cheaper.  Sack a ton to Ravager or go clamp-crazy, play and sac this, and then have the possibility to do it all again(not to mention the Genesis Chamber tokens generated through this)

Reaping The Graves- Another amazing card (I run in Type 2 against Goblins, and it's sick), possibly allowing the same thing as No Rest For The Wicked, but being nearly uncounterable and an instant that can bring creatures that were put into the graveyard many turns ago.  

Please give your opinions on these cards in this deck.

[urzas child]

my opinions on those two cards are:

theyre great for ravager decks, but this deck isnt a ravager deck. Like i said, this is combo, and barely ever actually sac creatures. Thanks for the help, but its just not for my deck.

alfred i'm going to... well disregard you post. It clearly shows that you have never even tried to play this deck. The deck barely needs any mana, but it does need fastbond. Tendrils is a winmore card, by the time you could cast it you have already won. Helm effects EVERYTHING in the deck, dont even try to say it doesnt effect creatures. The whole point of the deck is to not make it rely on affinity, its just affinity based. Cheap mana artifacts help with affinity, and, well, artifact lands are crap in a non-ravager deck, maybe even in one. Once again you havent played the deck seeing as how you suggested spoils. You suggested to remove one of the most important cards (fastbond) and suggested something that makes you lose even MORE life? please play the deck before you post next time alfred

[mtg_player_2004]

You may want to check this forum out:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=281257#281257

I feel that Auriok really isn't needed, neither are the helms, IMO.  Colorless mana shouldn't be a problem in ravager decks.

[urzas child]

You may want to check this forum out:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=281257#281257

I feel that Auriok really isn't needed, neither are the helms, IMO.  Colorless mana shouldn't be a problem in ravager decks.

I'll say it once again. THIS IS NOT A RAVAGER DECK, IT IS A PURE COMBO DECK

also on a side note, the link doesnt work

[Dozer]

Instead of the aforementioned Tendrils, you should try 1 Brain Freeze. As PT: Kobe (I think, but I could not find a decklist) demonstrated, this is a far easier kill than Ravagering/Discipling them to death.

Steelshapers are definitely a necessity, because without them you will not go infinite with the Skullclamps. I have tried the combo in a Type 2 deck, and although that is not really the same, it nevertheless shows the basic mechanics. From what I've gathered there, you should definitely replace the Arcbound Workers with Ornithopters. The main problem is drawing free creatures after you have the Chamber and Skullclamp in place. If you don't, you will not generate enough Myr tokens to clamp through your deck and reach a sufficient spell count for any Storm win condition, be it Brain Freeze or Tendrils. The Ravagers are there, I feel, to give the deck another option by going the standard Affinity route.

All that said (and I'm actually tired, since it's 5 a.m. here, so this post remains short), I think once the combo is in place, it can win, and you might even get the combo into play. I don't see that control decks will let you win with it, though, since it is so easy to disrupt. Anyway, I'm going to sleep.

And for the record, I also think that the Helms do not belong. The Affinity mechanic is pretty strong in itself, so it should provide ample acceleration without speeding up your opponent a great deal, which is the major problem of the Helms, since you are not going to make this deck go off turn one or two, I think. After that, the Helms become dangerously symmetric.

Dozer

[Matt]

You may want to check this forum out:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=281257#281257

I feel that Auriok really isn't needed, neither are the helms, IMO.  Colorless mana shouldn't be a problem in ravager decks.

I'll say it once again. THIS IS NOT A RAVAGER DECK, IT IS A PURE COMBO DECK

also on a side note, the link doesnt work

It is manages to be a shitty pure combo deck[/u], and also a weak Ravager deck AT THE SAME TIME.

Moved to newbie.[/color]

[urzas child]

matt, id appreciate if you would actually see past that it uses "mirrodin cards and therefore is crap" stereotype. just because you dont like how a deck looks doesnt mean its shitty

[Garth One Eye]

I haven't seen any Mod prejudice against Mirrodin:

Control Slaver decks are quite popular right now.  

[mtg_player_2004]

I think that 4 Disciples and 4 Ravagers are needed, even if this isn't combo.

Frogmites and Helms are slow, clog up the deck and are unnecessary.  

Thoughtcasts can easily replace Meditates.

Fastbond looks unneeded..  Instead, a combination of fetchlands, duels, and probably Workshops are.  You also should run Grim Monolith and Mana Vault.

I still think that with an efficent manabase, Steelshapers are junk, especially if you run 2 crop rotations.

[Matt]

matt, id appreciate if you would actually see past that it uses "mirrodin cards and therefore is crap" stereotype. just because you dont like how a deck looks doesnt mean its shitty

You don't know what you're talking about. First, I am one of the biggest supporters of using new cards. Second, this deck is terrible because it's a 3-card combo (which is already a bad sign in type one) running ZERO protection. Analysis: terrible.