Uba Stax

[vroman]

re: maze of ith
Ive found that maze is actually better in the matchups where it looks not as good. maze is awesome at crippling the clock of a swarm deck like fish or goblins, more so than hoping to perpetually stall mega creatures from oath and tinker. however not every tinker/oath deck actually run strip effects, and the time they sit around waiting to find it is usually enough for soot counters to build up.

re: energy flux
Ive loosely kept track and Im certain I have a winning record in all the games my opponent has resolved energy flux against me. its just not that scary a hoser. It might cost me a few locks, but a welder will play through it no sweat, or as long as I can afford to keep an uba on the table, theyre still F-d, bc decks that play e-flux typically suffer bad when all their counters and draw get removed before theyre used.

re: null brooch
in my very first version of uba stax I played null brooch, which I brought to SCG chicago in nov 04, and deservedly scrubbed out. its terrible, even when my oponents dont read the card and decide not to cast creatures either. the problem may have been in the overall deck design which was very awkward, but still I think having to come up w an open 2 mana to operate it through my opponents turn was the losing point. its basicaly like a 2x costed flipped erayo, that requires an ongoing investment and gets removed easier. since erayo isnt that much to sing about, and this is worse...

re: gamble
I can see applications for this card, but its not uba stax. its card disadvantage and only good w an active welder, since it must be assumed I will lose the card I search for, since the deck rarely has many cards in hand. if I could count on an active welder theres many other things Id run before a red Entomb.

[prosbloom225]

2 chicago's ago, my team tinkered with a gamble based stax deck, with a bit of tuning it could work because of the synergy between welders and gamble, but thats a topic for another time.  As for the other cards, null brooch=crap in this deck, as does energy flux, flux is for oath and sometimes control slaver.

@dante
don't the majority of oath decks not run waste?  I know for sure they dont run crucible.  If they do topdeck 4 wastes in a row, they deserve to win.  The mazes are good, at its worst its just another better target for waste than your shops.

[Dante]

2 chicago's ago, my team tinkered with a gamble based stax deck, with a bit of tuning it could work because of the synergy between welders and gamble, but thats a topic for another time.  As for the other cards, null brooch=crap in this deck, as does energy flux, flux is for oath and sometimes control slaver.

@dante
don't the majority of oath decks not run waste?  I know for sure they dont run crucible.  If they do topdeck 4 wastes in a row, they deserve to win.  The mazes are good, at its worst its just another better target for waste than your shops.

they don't need 4 wastes, they need 1 or 2 depending if you have crucible out with your Maze.  I played against 2 Oath decks at Chicago and they both ran at least 3-4 strips.

[prosbloom225]

The thing is, that makes them waste that fetch and waste on the maze.  This should give time to stop their fatty, or set up a better board position.  The oath decks I've seen doing well don't run the waste/strips,  as combo control, they don't have enough slots or time to pitch a land drop wasting.

[vroman]

this might be amusing. I found my deck list from my first version of ubastax I brought to SCG chicago nov 04 that went 0-2:

4 workshop
4 waste
4 bazaar
4 forbidden orchard (I was expecting lots of oath, still terrible)
3 city of brass
1 strip
1 lions eye diamond
1 academy
9 power (yes twister too)
3 sol/crypt/vault

1 tinker
1 balance
1 windfall (I really liked draw 7s)
1 wheel
1 demonic tutor

4 trinisphere (how many workshop n00bs won matches bc of these 4 cards?)
4 crucible
4 ensnaring bridge (I have to protect myself from all their spirit tokens!)
4 null brooch
4 uba mask
4 the rack (ah, the kill)

I cant remember what the sideboard looked like, but I distinctly remember it had 2 copies of noetic scales as my answer to platinum angel. so at this point Ive yet to discover the welder lock, or how good welder is in general. no smokestacks, but then I guess itd be hard to race their accumulation of spirit tokens. LED of course is NOT a 2nd lotus in this deck, bc it cant actually cast the uba.

[yespuhyren]

I do like the broach.  About the maze of ith thing though.  Yes, the oath player has 3/4 strip effects.  Oath does not draw very many cards, so lets say they resolve their oath with orchard turn 2.  Unless they've gotten lucky with having recall in hand, they're at 8 or 9 cards depending on who went first.  with 5 strip effects, the average is hitting 1 strip effect in 12 cards.  So mathematically, we can't assume they have more than 2.  If the game has gone long enough for them to hit 2 strip effects, or they drew both early game, you don't want to assume they had orchard and oath.  Obvioiusly they could have a hand like

Oath
Orchard
Mox
Waste
Waste
Force
Drain

But then your pretty fairly up shit creek anyways, as that should probably finish you pretty well anyways.

Therefore, I'd say not to worry about getting hit by 2 strip effects, as you can probably have other lock elements out.

[Smmenen]

this might be amusing. I found my deck list from my first version of ubastax I brought to SCG chicago nov 04 that went 0-2:

4 workshop
4 waste
4 bazaar
4 forbidden orchard (I was expecting lots of oath, still terrible)
3 city of brass
1 strip
1 lions eye diamond
1 academy
9 power (yes twister too)
3 sol/crypt/vault

1 tinker
1 balance
1 windfall (I really liked draw 7s)
1 wheel
1 demonic tutor

4 trinisphere (how many workshop n00bs won matches bc of these 4 cards?)
4 crucible
4 ensnaring bridge (I have to protect myself from all their spirit tokens!)
4 null brooch
4 uba mask
4 the rack (ah, the kill)

I cant remember what the sideboard looked like, but I distinctly remember it had 2 copies of noetic scales as my answer to platinum angel. so at this point Ive yet to discover the welder lock, or how good welder is in general. no smokestacks, but then I guess itd be hard to race their accumulation of spirit tokens. LED of course is NOT a 2nd lotus in this deck, bc it cant actually cast the uba.

Another example of someone focused on a concept can accomplish over a long period of time with deep understanding and strong playskill. 

[Luiggi]

Congrats on your win!

about the sideboard:
3x v-heretic = obviously for the workshop mirror. except for Riddler w hannas custody, this card is a complete hoss against artifact based decks. plus its a win condition w welder to re-destroy their biggest card for damage.
2x lava dart = primarily for welder, but splash against fish/goblins. these will become b-rings.
2x orb of dreams = this is aimed squarely at oath to slow down mega hasters and give me a chance to kill orchards. its also good against storm combo. in the future Im going to start bringing this in against draingifts in order to survive their yawg will turn.
2x price of glory = I added this last minute for the draingifts deck, which I expected a lot of, but I only ended up playing it one round and never saw this card. its yet to prove itself.
2x duplicant = extra hate for aggro and oath
2x maze = see above but uncounterable and free.
1x uba = fill out the playset in the most favorable match ups. I moved this to side for an extra moxmonkey
1x null = see above

What were you generally pulling when it came time to SB stuff in? What were the suboptimal cards for each matchup?

Luiggi

[Dante]

Rob - against Roland, you sided like this  "Vroman shipped out Uba Mask, his own Titan, Karn, Chalices, and Trinisphere for Mazes of Ith, Duplicant, Lava Dart, Viashino Heretic, and a lone Null Rod"  So -4 Uba -4 Chalice, -1 Titan, -1 Karn for all those sideboard cards. 

But vs Matt you went "For game 2 he brought in a Null Rod and three Viashino Herectics, taking out a Trinisphere (OMG it's ruining the format restrict, restrict, restrict!), a pair of Duplicants, and a Sundering Titan".

Just curious as to why the different boarding plan with the Mazes and Dups (I can see the lava dart difference in that Roland played 4 while Matt played fewer [not sure if you knew if he had any or saw any Game 1].

[ELD]

In the past, vs stax, if I had enough permanents, I'd be fine.  Truthfully, I've won nearly all my games vs prison IF I've been able to cast things.  Unless I was locked out, card advantage turned into a board advantage which lead GG. 

This new tech changes everything.  Null Rod and Mox Monkey in workshop eliminate all the usual outs.  Stoping mana acceleration from meaning anything removes the way I usually beat Stax.  Ramping up to 3 mana and casting Rack and Ruin is going to be a lot harder now.  This has retarded synergy with smokestack set at one, or crucible.  I don't even want to think about the games that 3sphere comes into the equation.   This is going to be a tough riddle to solve.  It will be interesting to see what kind of heat workshops draw now as well.

[vroman]

@ smmennen
thanks a lot. I appreciate the respect. I'll see you at gencon, starting round 3

re: sideboarding

taking out the duplicants against morrison was a mistake. as soon as he played heretic I was afraid I was boned, ie kill my chalice @ 1, then swords my heretic, then dominate my board. if I had known about the heretic I would have probably brought in extra dupes, as the little viashino badass is terrifying.

the standard boarding plans are:
if I win game 1, take out chalice, unless Im facing combo or draingifts. I keep it in for goblins too, bc chalice @ 1 is so good against them.
if im facing workshop or goblins, or any other primarily permanent based deck, I take out uba mask, bc it loses a big chunk of its potency when theres no opp counterspells to erase, and dedicated hate would be more worthwhile.
against workshop, I take out trisphere every time, even if Im still going first. if my deck is designed to play around it, so is theres.
I also board out uba against cerebral assassin, which is a scary matchup bc they play welders and bazaars and can completely turn my engine against me. fortunately Ive faced this deck precisely zero times in any tournament of consequence.
any time I board out uba, I usually take out wheel of fortune, since I primarily play it for the mind twist effect.
if Im facing something that has no artifacts except mana, I usually lose the n-rods, unless its something like draingifts that really abuses black lotus multiple times.
control slaver is probably the hardest deck to board against, bc everything in the main is effective, yet I really need to bring in welder hate. losing game 1 to CS sucks in terms of the match strategy. I usually end up taking out duplicants, bc 6 mana is a lot to take out a 1/1, and dupe is bad against trike and bus, since you dont win card advantage either way. if Im playing someone who Im sure knows how to play against ubastax, then I keep the duplicants in bc welder advantage is so key then.
against drain gifts, I have to size up my opponent. if they are good I will board out the duplicants, bc opp wont give me an opportunity to remove the colossus before 2xwalking. or they will assume I brought more dupes in and concentrate on the tendrils win, never offering up dsteel as a target. I will keep in all the mana denial and aim for a total constriction of their early game rather than trying to recover after theyve landed the tinker. on the other hand a bad player will go all in on tinker first chance they get, so theres no reason not to snipe them easily w 4x dupes and mazes.
Against Oath, I bring in the mazes, dream balls and extra dupes. I usually take out all my non-welder/duplicant creatures.
against goblins I used to bring in orb of dreams to slow down their haste guys, but Ive found having to wait a turn for blockers and mazes to untap was killing me more than it saved me.
against fish I bring in mazes, darts, dupes, and take out nulls and chalices, but it barely matters, that matchup is a bye.

I think that covers all the major matchups

[Dante]

...against fish I bring in mazes, darts, dupes, and take out nulls and chalices, but it barely matters, that matchup is a bye.

So even if they run the 4 x Aether vial, 3 x Jitte version you'd take out null rod?

[Luiggi]

vroman: awesome post dude, thanks a lot! It was really helpful, .

Is your plan to leave the Price of Glories in the SB until you determine whether or not they're any good?

Luiggi

[prosbloom225]

...against fish I bring in mazes, darts, dupes, and take out nulls and chalices, but it barely matters, that matchup is a bye.

So even if they run the 4 x Aether vial, 3 x Jitte version you'd take out null rod?

Even if they run fish like that, stax still owns them.  I'd probably keep the rod in, just in case tho

[vroman]

against jitte/vial fish obv keep n-rods. I should have been more specfic meaning rod fish when its redundant.
Im taking out price of glory for defense grid. its much easier to cast, and performs basicly the same function.