Jealous She-Gorilla

[thorme]

In the spirit of Progenitor's Promise:  http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=29177.0


Jealous She-Gorilla
1G
Creature -- Gorilla
4/2
When Jealous She-Gorilla is put into your graveyard from play, if there is another card named Jealous She-Gorilla in your graveyard, you lose the game.
Occasionally the tribal males are reminded that too much of a good thing just might kill you.


This card pushes the power-level a bit (as does Progenitor's Promise) in exchange for the drawback of creating dead cards in your deck.  I like this one a bit better though, because it also allows the caster to go "all-in" by casting multiples of these and going for the throat - taking the gamble that the opponent won't have removal enough to make it backfire.  I think this makes for some interesting decisions both at deck design time and at game time.


Current Wording:

Jealous She-Gorilla
GG
Creature -- Gorilla
4/2
When Jealous She-Gorilla is put into your graveyard from play, if there is another card named Jealous She-Gorilla in any graveyard, you lose the game.
Occasionally the tribal males are reminded that too much of a good thing just might kill you.

[49 Cents]

I don't think this is a green ability, it sounds more like black. Also, you might want to make it 'in ALL graveyards'. That would make some interesting situations with 2 decks that both play this card (WoG or a Block = the game is a draw).

[Matt]

A gentle reminder in case you don't know: this name cannot stay.

[dandan]

So if you pretend that this is Legendary and just run 1, you get a 4/2 for 1G with no drawback?

At the very least make it 'any graveyard' but even then, probably too strong.

How about?

Jealous She-Gorilla
1G
Creature -- Gorilla
3/2
If there is more than one card named ~this~ in play, you lose the game.
Occasionally the tribal males are reminded that too much of a good thing just might kill you.

Note that this is still an easy disadvantage to work around but there is a slim slim chance that an opponent will do something wacky and make you lose. (Clone for the draw!!!)

[thorme]

So if you pretend that this is Legendary and just run 1, you get a 4/2 for 1G with no drawback?

Yes.  But do you really think this is a problem given that running a singleton copy of a card that really only shines in the early game may not be an automatic for deck designers?

[parallax]

I would run 4 copies of this card. The drawback can be solved with: pitch spells, Chrome Mox, or graveyard removal. I would build a G/W aggro deck with Watchwolf, Jotun Grunt and this. The only drawback is having to be careful with Moldervine Cloak (that is, don't dredge with the gorilla in play).

I said this with Progenitor's Promise and I'll say it again. This is not as significant a drawback as it looks.

[thorme]

I would build a G/W aggro deck with Watchwolf, Jotun Grunt and this.

Watchwolf is a good example - that one was pushed as far as P/T and given the drawback of making it tough to cast.  I don't want to go to 3 toughness with this card, since I want it to be relatively easy to kill....but at 3/2 this seems very weak.  Any ideas?

[Matt]

Make it {G}?

[dandan]

IMHO much too strong as is.

Still pushing the limits of power at GG and 'any graveyard' but I wouldn't object.

[thorme]

Suggested changes made, although with the "any" graveyard modification, the flavor is gone.  As Matt pointed out though, this name was probably not gonna make it anyway. 

Suggestions for new name/flavor?

[parallax]

Isn't 4/2 a bit strong for a card that's only drawback is a weakness against Glimpse the Unthinkable?

[nietzsche]

I think its casting cost says it all - GG.  Its just a little high on the power level to see print, but it would make a lovely edition to a lot of decks. 
Changing its p/t or raising its casting cost is frivolous and quite pointless, so those ideas don't really hold sway.  If anything adding another drawback like "when ~ comes into play sacrifice a creature/ discard a card" would make it much more likely to be around.

[thorme]

I have to think there is some design space for a creature between a 3/3 for <color, color> with no drawback (Watchwolf) and a 4/4 for <1, color> with a significant drawback (Flesh Reaver, Jotun Grunt).

The current card (as opposed to the Reaver/Grunt) makes the CC tougher and drops the toughness making it much more killable in exchange for lessening the severity of the drawback.

I know this card is strong - I wanted it to be near the top of the power curve since it is essentially restricted in standard (although worse since after the first, it gives you 3 dead cards in hard/library).  However, it looks like folks think this is still a bit over-the-top, and since I'm too stubborn to drop the power since (imho) that will make it unplayable, and I don't feel like trying to force-fit another drawback onto this, I guess I'll call this one.  Thanks for the feedback fellas!

[parallax]

The problem is that the drawback is so all-or-nothing it's nearly impossible to balance. Sure, multiples are useless but the first one is strong enough to kill you. Second turn gorilla, third turn Moldervine Cloak, swing for seven. Who cares if the other three copies, which you might not have even drawn, are dead? It would be different if these were conrol-oriented cards. A wrath effect with this drawback would be significant. You don't need to cast a second two mana 4/X to win the game. The fact that another 4/X for two (Jotun Grunt) completely negates the drawback of this card is another nail in the coffin.