[Single Card Discussion] Mana Web

[yespuhyren]

I was looking through a bunch of cards, and found this, and was wondering if it could be useful in workshop decks as an answer to control decks.

For those who don't know what it does, here it is

3
Artifact

Whenevery any land TARGET OPPONENT controls is tapped for mana, tap all lands he or she controls that can produce any type of mana that land can produce


This basically forces opponents to tap out, and even if they are playing decks like 5c stax or whatnot, tapping city makes them tap all non-workshop/waste/strip lands.

I believe that it could be very useful given the right deck, what do you guys think?

[neenjafus]

it's ok, but I don't see it doing enough.

A control deck can usually work around it well enough. Most of their spells will be cast at the end of your turn(rack and ruin, skeletal scrying, FoF, gifts, brainstorm, etc etc are all cast at end of turn more often than not)  if they are saving mana for drain. Also, this does almost nothing to stop force. Also, fetchlands get around this pretty well.

Stacks will often be tapping out each turn for the first few turns anyway.

[Mark_Story]

I think one of the problems with this card is that the tapping effect is a triggered ability.  Your opponent can always get the right amount of mana they need in response to the triggered ability, negating its effect basically.  I think it is an ability that needs to be played around however, and for that reason it might be useful.  It stops shenanigans at end of turn if they want counter mana up.  It also prevents upkeep mana being paid etc.  It has uses but they are narrow I think.  It slows factories down, if fish is tight on mana.   I just don't see it having a huge impact.  Mainly because of the abilities triggered nature.  If it were a replacement effect it couldbe über powerful, but as it stands it's only neat-o.  At least in my mind.

[Firefly]

I think one of the problems with this card is that the tapping effect is a triggered ability.

Absolutely true, because of this it will probably have very limited impact on a game. Control can easily work around this, as said before. TPS works around it no problem, given the moxxen etc.

Fish could find it pretty annoying, but it has enough ways to get the Web out of the way.

IMO, Mana Web won't have a big impact.

[silencebringer]

It's a cute trick, but I don't think it would have as strong an effects as something like tangle wire, which is the same CC.

[yodoblec]

The only way I would see this card hurting control in any way is if they decided to play cards on their turn, which they mostly won't. This card would mess with TPS though, forcing them to tap mana and maybe find out they don't need it after they draw cards or such.

[CrazyCarl]

Give it a try and let us know how it turns out.  Looks interesting to me.

[dandan]

Mana Maze 1U
Enchantment 
Players can't play spells that share a color with the spell last played this turn.


Fills the holes that Mana Web doesn't, costs less and pitches to FoW. Also works well if you run Brainstorms and Skeletal Scryings (their upkeep). Also does some of the work of ITEOC as it prevents several EOT draw spells, especially if they want to counterspell anything.

[Marton]

dandan, you seem to have made the same mistake I used to do. It counters the spell if it's the same color as *the last one played* and not any spell played this turn. With that said, you could play skeletal scrying, then before passing priority, play brainstorm, thus negating your opponent's ability to counter both of your spells.

The cool part about mana maze is that it makes your TFK/intuition/gift/tinker/recall impossible to counter (unless they have non-blue instants (the only case I can think of is REB for the most part)). It could be quite cool to play mind twist then play brainstorm in response, denying your opponent the ability to counter both

[dandan]

In the context of Vintage, playing a Brainstorm is going to stop a lot of opponents from doing anything. It's main weakness is that they can drop a Mox and then do stuff but it is still a pain in the butt. It stops Ritual+Will fairly well and you can always respond to a non-Blue spell with a Blue Instant if you wish.

[yespuhyren]

I heard about that one from a friend a few weeks ago, and I am testing both of them to see if either can be worked into my deck

[dskippy0]

Defense Grid is so much better at hosing control than Mana Web though. Mana Web is just a neat card that has a unique effect that doesn't really effect the game too much. Sure it's harder to be proactive in control but it already is and this doesn't make it much harder. It makes it impossible to play spells before and after combat. Neither of these things really hurts. If they want to get ready for counter they'll just leave the mana open. Mana Web doesn't stop free counter (Force of Will and Daze) either. Defense Grid really hurts it.

-mike

[dandan]

Grid is better than Maze at stopping control but Maze is better at stopping combo and control combo. It depends on what breakdown of control and combo you see and what matchups need the most help. Against Control I rate Grid a lot higher than Web. Winter Orb could also be considered as an anti-control card.