Aztec Flavour Summary

[Bram]

I think were were some poison counter ideas that could actually work: namely, cards that require you to have poison counters on yourself or to remove them from an opponent to be effective. If we encourage people to have poison counters or to remove them from their opponents, we generate tension with the win-condition aspect of poison counters.

See now? That's exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. I believe it could work. Check out the threads and you will find some interesting poison cards that have no chance at all at replacing damage as a primary vicotry condition, and yet are flaverful and not ridiculously weak like current (actual) poison cards. Thhis must be the sort of think MaRo was talking about when he told us he would bring back poison some day if he found a way to make in interesting and balanced.

What I really dislike to the point of getting REALLY angry is people who say 'I don't like poison. We shouldn't do poison cards.'

How childish. You *could* concievably just not look at the threads or partake in the dicussion if you really hate it so much. That's what happens on the other forums, too. When some jackass starts promoting the use of some new tech in a deck that I find more boring to play that watching paint dry, you won't find me posting 'this deck is the suck' all over the place. Sure, there are people who do this. They're called n00bs. Seriously, grow up, people. Let others have some fun even though it might not be your idea of a good time.

The mature thing to do however would be to actually think about this mechanic you so dislike. Think about why you dislike it, and possibly even what could be changed about it so you don't dislike it anymore. Constructive criticism is the most valuable resource we have.

Also: take a look at the poison cards we've made so far and tell me that you don't think every single one is a twist on the mechanic you didn't see coming. What's wrong with trying to fix a mechanic, expecially if there are some of us who like doing so?

I know Jacob's primary concern is about the wellbeing of the set, but that's not an issue right now. We can decide if we ever even use these poison cards at a later point in time. At a point when we can see what became of our attempts to 'fix' it. And most importantly: after we gave it some serious though, rather than before.

[Jebus]

Childish?  I think that's a bit harsh.

All I stated was that I don't like Poison, and my arguments are basically the same as Jacob's.

Now, if I went into every poison card thread and posted "OMG POISON SUX", that would would be childish.

So far, I haven't had the need to post on a poison card thread, because there is nothing wrong with the cards themselves.  If there were something mechanically wrong about them, I would have mentioned it.  They're actually very well made and do make use of poison in a way that hasn't been done yet.

Now, I wanted to state my opinion that I don't think poison is a good direction to move in for this set.  Why I can't state this now and here is beyond me.  I was just throwing it out there.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade or anything.

[Bram]

No, I was saying it's childish to say you don't like something and then conclude that as a result, noone should be working on it.

I wasn't calling you or your behaviour childish. You stated what you thought and that's great. It's just that I can already see this whole discussion centering around whether or not we should even be DESIGNING poison cards, and I don't think it should. There's nothing wrong with hating something. There is something wrong however with boycotting it just because of that.

I for one hate hate fading counters. I loathe them. I never made a fading counter card myself and I'd be happy if I never saw one in here ever again. But other people seem to love them. So let them. If they create interesting cards that utilize the mechanic, that's all I can really ask for. Why not do the same for poison?

You're saying you think it's a wrong direction for the new set to be taken. For one thing, there isn't even a new set. Heck, there isn;t even al *old* set yet. It's just an idea. And nipping ideas in the bud before we ever even get the chance to see if they can or cannot work just seems like the worst plan I've ever heard.

And if you're concerned about the amount of poison cards currently created: don't be. It's not THAT high. And in a week or two, it'll all have faded. But we'll be so much the wiser if we focus on the cards instead of on the question if we should be thinking about the cards at all or not.

[GerryMander]

Question:  With this set, is the main focus of black/green creatures going to be weak poison ones and the main focus of red/white creatures is going to be strong power/toughnesses?

[DavidHernandez]

All I stated was that I don't like Poison

LOL.

I never liked cards dealing with Poison because they required too much time or effort to kill the opponent.

However, I love the idea of giving yourself poison counters in order to accomplish something. For instance, on a creature card "...sacrifice ~this~. Give yourself 5 Poison Counters. Draw 3 Cards. If you control 10 poison counters, you lose the game."

Some good Aztec discussion has begun at the following thread:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20044&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Dave.

[Ephraim]

It was suggested recently, with the glut of insect cards that have appeared since I proposed Rapacious Antlion, that the Aztec set have an insect subtheme. I know that I expressed disapproval of the idea of using insects, but I realize it's actually been quite a while since the Odyssey and Onslaught blocks. I wouldn't want to go overboard with it, though. Maybe introduce three green insects, two each black and red, and maybe one each blue and white. I also think that if we're serious about the Aztec set, we need to consider setting out stricter guidelines concerning the set. All we have right now is a vague outline of what the various factions will be. I think it would be good to set out the species that will be associated with each colour, the number of cards that will be dedicated to various functions (specifically, how much of the set will focus on poison?) Obviously, setting out the proportions of card functions won't restrict people from suggesting ideas beyond that number. It would be great to have a pool from which to choose. But if we decide that the set will only be 10% poison and half of the cards that have been submitted involve poison, then there's a discrepancy.

[Matt]

Poison really need to be strongly pushed or not at all. I would say to put it around the level of cycling in Onslaught, or higher.

[stolen]

Nothing really about the card, but I was just thinking that maybe all these insects of late could be part of the theme of Atzec. I mean, it is pretty buggy in Central America, and there have been a lot of Insects as of late. Maybe they could become a major tribe. You've already got the Antlion, which would want a bunch of insects in the same set. Plus, insects can be poison-ish.

Also, the name of this thread is "Toxic Wasps." You might want to change that.

-from the Fearsome Mantis thread.

I see no reason to include insects as "a major tribe" or even as a significant part of the story.  However, they are appropriately flavorful, and I think they should be sprinkled in (like what Ephraim suggested above).  So I say, use them to fill creature slots but don't make a big deal about it.

[Pizzatog]

I propose, as a subtheme, like sunburst or scry in MBC, the land theme. Recently Ive been posting cards that use Forest tokens, and creatures turning into a lands. A theme so connected to the rain-forest I think could well use these mechanics.

[asmoranomardicodais]

I agree with Ephraim. Poison is intrinsically a boring mechanic, but if measures are taken to make it interesting then it can be extremely possible to make work. Rather than have poison counters be the method to win in many cases, have cards that use them as a cost, or specify a certain number of them, etc. For intstance, have card that do:

If the opponent has 5 poison counters, draw two cards and remove all counters from them.

Switch your life with your poison counters.

Remove one poison counter from the opponent and give it to you: Draw one card.

Destroy target creature if you have eight poison counters, then give yourself a poison counter.

Each player gains poison counters equal to the amount of creatures they control.

All creatures add one poison counter in addition to damage dealt.

All players must sacrifice permanents equal to the amount of poison counters they have. During your upkeep, gain a poison counter.

T: Add B or R. You gain a poison counter.

And that's just off the top of my head. If you make an effort to make them interesting, you can create an awesome mechanic.