weld on top

[sundering jerk]

Hey Everyone! Lately I have been debating an experimental question. As some of you know I really enjoy playing a tight slaver. My question is this: would it be a good idea to try and replace a brainstorm for a sensays divining top in my slaver deck? I'm just sick of drawing first turn mix emerald and having nothing to do with it. Any way I've thought of some pros and cons and would Love to hear some input.

Pros:
1. it helps Tolarian academy
2. you can toss it to thirst
3. you can weld it
4. it never goes away
5 just one more permanent against st ax

cons:
1. Brainstorm is better
2. 4 brainstorms with one first turn rock

Let me know what you think!

[AJFirst]

You're missing a few key  reasons:

Putting DSC back with Brainstorm
Null Rod shutting Top down
Having excess lands in hand late game (control mirror) and creating virtual card advantage as oposed to mere card selection
Brainstorm going to the yard for Will
4 less cards to pitch to Force of Will
You can't hide goodies on top with Brainstorm in response to Duress

These are just a few reasons. Brainstorm needs to stay in the deck.
-AJ

Edit :: and can be fetched with Merchant Scroll, as well as being an instant for 1, instead of costing 2 to use the first time.

[sundering jerk]

4 less cards to pitch to Force of Will

You bring up many good reasons. I just wanted to clarify that I would only have one top, 4 would be absurd.

[Whatever Works]

If I would ever run Sensei's Top I would probably run it in conjunction with 4 brainstorm. There are sooo many cards you cut before brainstorm, and having a 5th affect similar to brainstorm isnt exactly a bad thing.

Kyle

[forests failed you]

Top isn't a true cantrip the way Brainstorm is.

You can tap top and get a card, true; but top still goes back on top of the deck.

I am whole heartedly against playing any number of tops over any number of Brainstorms.

If you had proposed running it over another card in the deck, I could see an argument for it.

Brainstorm is one of the most powerful cards in Slaver.  Cutting it is wrong and terrible and unforgivable.

[Hi-Val]

I had 3 tops in my deck at one point in the whammy slots. They murder control, obviously. The big thing with Slaver is that they make your Welders a heck of a lot better because you can tap them, weld in response and then get a free card with no obstructed draw. That said, there are probably better options and if you're running only 1 Top, then it probably isn't worth it.

[df8251]

instead of having people tell you that this isnt going to work you should just playtest it on mws, or somewhere that its not going to mean anything and if it works better over Brainstorm in multiple situations then its a keeper. i personally think it would work well combined with Welder, and several other cards that are run in control. its also colorless mana so its much easier to cast as well as activate, so i think it is worth trying. but hey, this is only my opinion, even if you say otherwise.

[sundering jerk]

instead of having people tell you that this isnt going to work you should just playtest it on mws, or somewhere that its not going to mean anything and if it works better over Brainstorm in multiple situations then its a keeper. i personally think it would work well combined with Welder, and several other cards that are run in control. its also colorless mana so its much easier to cast as well as activate, so i think it is worth trying. but hey, this is only my opinion, even if you say otherwise.

Well that's actually the problem. I've played over a hundred games with it and a hundred games without it and it just seems so even. By posting my daft ideas here I some time get alternative ideas or reminders of things like  just how wrong it is to not play with four brainstorms. But I still have faith that their should be room for top, maybe I'll get rid of the bounce or something...
that's for the impute

[Rock Lee]

had a similar issue of feeling the need for more "oomph" before drain mana was up.

A few choices I considered:

Lat-Nam's Legacy (not as bad as people think)
Sensei's Divining Top (probably my #2 choice, but never replacing brainstorm)
Foresight (yeah I looked for anything, this was a neat idea when you run many-'answers' you can side out the bad ones. It was a bad idea. Just run good answers...)
Night's Whisper (yes the suddenly popular card actually tested to be amazing. It only kills you 1 game out of 10, and saves you far far more than that.)

Night's Whisper ended up winning, and I haven't looked back yet. its amazing.

[Zarathustra]

Night's Whisper is very, very good in Slaver.  My friend has 3 of them in his deck and it's very good.  Thirsts coupled with Whispers turn out to be a great 'engine' for the deck.

I would highly suggest running Whisper over Top.

[sundering jerk]

Nights whisper is good but after testing it I have found that I have a problem with the fact that it is not an instant. All most all games I lose, I lose do to a turn one to four  win. For example Orchard,mox, oath go! shitty stuff like that. Which is why I no longer think top is all that great or why I don't carry nights whisper. Leak is the way to go probably, that's my next test subject

[sundering jerk]

Ok now! What's more important slaver players, a mox munkey or a top???

[Zarathustra]

Nights whisper is good but after testing it I have found that I have a problem with the fact that it is not an instant. All most all games I lose, I lose do to a turn one to four  win. For example Orchard,mox, oath go! shitty stuff like that. Which is why I no longer think top is all that great or why I don't carry nights whisper. Leak is the way to go probably, that's my next test subject

It draws TWO cards for 1B, who cares if it's a sorcery?  Losing because of a turn 1-4 win is not a good reason for exclusion.  Orchard, Mox, Oath, that's one of Oath's amazing draws.  This still doesn't warrent the exclusion of Whisper.

Mana Leak has no place in Slaver.  You don't want more counters in this deck, the eight counterspells are just enough to control the game before you can go off.  Adding more counters would push out draw and tutors, which is not a good idea.