[Deck] Birdsh*t

[wethepeople]

I actually took the green out for black(dryad is not a good enough reason alone to run green), and im loving the deck even more so now its extremely strong, but i still need to do alot of testing.

What cards did you bring in? I expect the usual (Confidant, Duress), but was there anything new you have been testing?

Just because it is UWb doesnt mean it is some SS variant because the deck itself has a very different concept. I have tested various different builds (very similar to Wuaffiliate's using several Cantrips) that are more so Gro than Threshold, but using Grunt as an additional clock isnt something I have ever tried for some reason. I certainly like the list because it also makes room for a few of my favorites (Meddling Mage, Shadow of Doubt, Stifle, Daze, and so on). I cant figure out how you have packed in so much disruption for some reason, four of everything, it makes me feel as if you missed something else, or went over 60 cards. wierd. I am going to play your list through a bit and after I have tested it myself, I will report problems and things I personally think should be improved.

[wuaffiliate]

Confidant does make an apperance yes. It may seem rude or whatnot but but im not going to post a list, its very different so im going to wait and test it and get some tourneys in with the deck before i post anything. I am debating posting it as my full member first post thing, ive finnished the test i just need to make my thread before submiting the test heh.

Just because it is UWb doesnt mean it is some SS variant because the deck itself has a very different concept.

Very true it does play alot different than SS and even the past BS/BSGro lists.

[Duncan]

Jotun Grunt: This is a midgame deck in the aggro match-up, give Will decks a hell. Bomberman dies.

This is so untrue, they just hold lotus, play salvagers off lotus and win that very turn.

Anyway, Dryad has been a personal favorite of mine and i'll definately give the list a try. Just one thing i'd like to say in advance: i'd make room for one basic island. One basic helps just so much in the stax matchup.

And wuaffiliate, i'm looking forward to your post about UWb.

[LSD/Cruise]

Jotun Grunt: This is a midgame deck in the aggro match-up, give Will decks a hell. Bomberman dies.

This is so untrue, they just hold lotus, play salvagers off lotus and win that very turn.

Anyway, Dryad has been a personal favorite of mine and i'll definately give the list a try. Just one thing i'd like to say in advance: i'd make room for one basic island. One basic helps just so much in the stax matchup.

And wuaffiliate, i'm looking forward to your post about UWb.

Went around testing UWb. I must say, it plays a lot like EBA, but with the Turbo Xerox engine. It's been doing too well for me. I overwhelm aggro and Control, Combo get's it real hard with the old-fashion Duress, Meddling Mage. Heres my list...


// Mana 19
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra


// Creatures 11
4 Meddling Mage
4 Dark Confidant
3 Jotun Grunt


// Spells 31
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Gush
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Darkblast
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Duress
3 Daze
3 Shadow of Doubt
3 Stifle
3 Null Rod
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm


// Sideboard 15
1 Stifle
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Engineered Explosives
3 Pithing Needle
3 Chalice of the Void


This deck loses some momentum against Workshop, as Dryad does very well against it. But however, the old Gro deck is awful against it anyways, so havin Black in here over Green is so much better. Having Black in allows you to snatch Oath to make their hands crap, and Edict to answer SSS. S2P and Stifle can easily do the rest. I prefer Green because it can allows me to have a lower quality creature be a powerful clock. They wont Darkblast her, but they will double Darkblast MM. Adding Black makes this deck more controllish, but the philosophy remains the same. But that's only from my testing. His deck is probably more different from mine.

@Duncan: Now they have to play around Null Rod and Grunt. They can hold it, but they must answer those cards first.

If your going to give the Dryad list a shot, make sure you play the Control role. You always play control, the Creatures are just there to apply pressure. But the deck is also considered to be more aggressive than Fish and SS. If you want to squeeze in the Basic land, I would change the mana base a little...

// Mana 19
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
1 Plains
1 Island
2 Tundra
3 Tropical Island


The UW fetchland already has access to the Plains and Island which are very important. I'm still using what I have because Wastelands dont worry me. They gave up one of their Tempo to hit mine with Wasteland. Trading a Stifle for it is a rather good deal, so it souldnt worry me, since Shadow of Doubt is there to hit their fetches. Stax is more of a 50/50 on my part. 
 

[wethepeople]

Most UWb lists are something like this:

4 Bob
4 Mage
3-4 Grunt

4 FoW
4 Stifle/Daze
4 Bstorm
1 Ancestral
1 Walk
1-4 StP (depending on meta)
2-4 Duress
1-2 Tutors
and so on.


I had a thread a little while back about a deck like this that did fairly well from my testing. I have a UWb Vial Fish deck that kicks Control in the nuts, and the four MD Children of Korlis and Mages make the combo matchup all the better. The Fish mirror is a breeze because I have a far better draw engine (4 Ninjas, 4 Confidants) along with four MD Swords and a much stronger creature base. I only play the deck when I come along a metagame with similar decks.

Grunt isnt all that good for graveyard hate, well atleast don't rely on it. It does nothing to Salvagers (as explained by Duncan), it just gives them a bit of a clock. Grunt and Confidant work well against Stax, Grunt slowly tears up their GY so they can't do any Welder tricks, as well as clocks them down, and Confidant allow you to continue to draw permanents, making it much harder for them to lock you up. Meddling Mage is weak versus Stax, it only shuts off a single card, so it wont really effect them that much, but it is great versus almost everything else, even Aggro.

EDIT: another post was made while typing.

I played a UGb Gro deck that used Confidants and Dryads, at one point I may have even used Mongeese, I dont really remember the creature base. But I found that using as many fetchlands as I could made the deck all the better because it allowed you to keep pulling Cantrips and gain Threshold much faster.

[wuaffiliate]

I'm thinking that the Gro decks and other non BS decks should get their own threads. BS is quite reliant on the threshold mechanic to keep with the deck's philosophy.

[wethepeople]

I'm thinking that the Gro decks and other non BS decks should get their own threads. BS is quite reliant on the threshold mechanic to keep with the deck's philosophy.

That is true. Birdshit is a completely different deck than what is currently being discussed in this thread, and for additional feedback on other decks it is best that new topics are started.

[LSD/Cruise]

I'll do a thread for the Gro deck. I played it for a long time. My list is not optimal, so other people have to post their lists. We can decide from there...

[mistervanni]

hi to everyone, this is my 1st post!
back on topic, i tested and played a version of birdshit quite classical
        4 Flooded Strand
        2 Polluted Delta
        1 Island
        3 Tundra
        3 Tropical Island
        4 Wasteland
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Mox Sapphire
        4 Meddling Mage
        4 Nimble Mongoose
        3 Werebear
        2 Ninja of the Deep Hours
        3 Chalice of the Void
        2 Swords to Plowshares
        4 Brainstorm
        3 Daze
        2 Stifle
        2 Mental Note
        1 Gush
        1 Repeal
        1 Rushing River
        1 Time Walk
        1 Ancestral Recall
        2 Misdirection
        4 Force of Will
SB:  2 Crucible of Worlds
SB:  2 Swords to Plowshares
SB:  2 Energy Flux
SB:  2 Serenity
SB:  3 Sacred Ground
SB:  1 Chalice of the Void
SB:  3 Null Rod

i played the 3 powers i own (pretty obvious) and was somehow undecided about the number and type of removal/bounce i had to play. in the end i went with 2 s2p and repel over chain, thinking i didn't wanted my magi bounced back, and rriver to exit from the most probable chalice or to bounce two pieces of jewelry to deploy my own chalice.
i wanted to play mongoose and bear to have a decent clock and overrun other fish decks and others based around confidant. the mmagi are awesome and the ninja offered some draw along the process
my side was a bit of unsure also and i think there are better card choices. i liked pretty much the SGround but i think i have to choose betwen them and the cow
thanks for any comment 

[Duncan]

Hi mistervanni, welcome to TMD!
Your list looks ok, but i do have some questions for you:
- Why do you run chalice over null rod? And if so, why only 3 chalice? It seems like putting chalice@1 or 2 is not really an option. Null Rod is also good on the draw, chalice a lot less.
- Have you any particular reason to run 2 bounce cards? Most BS decks run only 1, and i've never felt that to be a problem myself. Just wondering what you think about this.
- I would'nt run lotus petal. It does fix your mana a little bit and improves your speed (at the cost of 1 card). BUT it is horrible vs. welder-based decks. Now they can weld your chalices/null rods out when you don't want them to.

As for your sideboard, you don't have any cards vs. oath at all. Doesn't anyone play it in your meta? Otherwise i would suggest to run 2 ray of revelation and 2 seal of cleansing, also good vs. stax.

- Duncan

[mistervanni]

hi duncan
 many of my meta consist of unpowered deck (mainly wu-tang and even gayfish, and also mono-B and FCG!!!) or dark gift that wins often via rebuild, both are not very fast barred some insane draws.
i found myself casting chalice@1 quite as often as at0 and versus gift i think my magi are more powerful (that's the reason besides lotus petal, with an early mage against mana drain i actually have more counters and i can deploy chalice or more magi with ease, while denying their mana with waste and stifle.besides, here in italy noone plays CS nor welder anymore, only awful red/green aggro deck) given their need to build storm around jewelry my fast clock of 3/3 and 4/4 is my best weapon.
 about my 2 bounce main i liked the rushing for working around chalice and for giving me the opportunity to bounce 2 (like oath+dude, or 2lock from stax, or remove 2 blockers...) but i felt i needed another over the 3rd s2p to manage my own chalice, bounce their jewelry back, recast my magi and, as i said, i didn't wanted my spell forked back to me.
 for the oath matchup, here classical oath has faded in favor of tyrant oath, so my +2swords and chalice are worthyer (it exist in english?) than the ray that i too played in the past.
 sorry for having so many card choices built around a somehow distorted meta but that's what i found around here.
thanks for the input and see you soon

[Duncan]

for the oath matchup, here classical oath has faded in favor of tyrant oath, so my +2swords and chalice are worthyer (it exist in english?) than the ray that i too played in the past.

I still don't see how chalice is more useful in this matchup, they just oath, play one spell, bounce chalice and still go broken? The spell doesn't need to resolve so it can be of any many cast to start their chain of spells. I've always felt that stopping oath is much better than stopping what comes after. Fearing that they play that oath build you haven't got the answer for in your hand is worse than just not let them oath.

sorry for having so many card choices built around a somehow distorted meta but that's what i found around here.
thanks for the input and see you soon

Do not apoligise for metaing, that's always a good thing!

[mistervanni]

dear duncan, i have to agree with you. right now i'm preparing for this or next sunday's tournament and i'm having the following changes:
-1 lotus petal/+1 cotv
sideboard:
2 cow
2 seal of cleansing
2 ray of revelation
3 energy flux (or kataki?)
2 stp
3 jotun grunt/t crypt?
1 stifle

i'm looking for the following switch, any suggestions appreciated,
 
gift/dark gift
 +2 cow,+1 stifle/-1 repeal,-2 mental note
 i expect the game to go long and i want to deny their mana, chanting against drain, or if  they get a fast mana start against gift or rebuild

oath
 +2 seal,+2 ray,+1 stifle/-2mental note,-2 ninja,-1 misdirection if they play classic i expect sss so out 2stp in the note

stax build
 +2cow,+2seal,+3energy flux,+3 jotun grunt,+1 stifle(what a mess)/-2 misdirection,-4 mmage,-gush,-2 mental note,-2 daze
 many cards, too many maybe but it's though. the best are the werebear for beating and mana and the stifle

fish
 +2cow,+2stp,+2 seal+1stifle/-2ninja,-4chalice,-1daze
 chant against jotun grunt and keep jitte to no counter and you win easy.remenber mental note tricks for threshold out of nowhere

tps-pitch,grim
 +1 stifle,+3jotun/-2 ninja,-1repeal,-1rushing river
 remember to sword your own 4/4 to stay alive, often they duress you out stifle. with jotun eat only their grave unless it's letal cause they could bring massacre

this is all, hope to have been useful with this review. feel free to comment and correct, i'm in no way an expert nor a touchy

[LSD/Cruise]

I treid to re-play Bird Shit, and I guess that deck isnt so bad against Fish, if you counter their Jotun Grunts and Meddling Mages, you shouldn't have much of a problem.


// Mana 19
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra


// Creatures 10
3 Nimble Mongoose
3 Werebear
4 Meddling Mage


// Spells 32
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gush
1 Time Walk
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Misdirection
3 Stifle
3 Null Rod
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Mental Note


// Sideboard 15
3 Spell Snare - Fish, Drain
3 Trygon Predator - Stax
3 Ray of Revelation - Oath
3 Nantuko Monastery - Fish
3 Pithing Needle - Stax, Drain