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Author Topic: Top 8 at bluebell with stax  (Read 4312 times)
Luecifer
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« on: February 11, 2007, 01:41:59 am »

Today’s Bluebell was a fantastic success, and this is my view on events, to the best of my knowledge. I will provide my full deck list at the end. It is 5c Uba Stax with a few changes I made to make the deck fit my play style more. I was very pleased, even though I lost in the Top8. Anyway, the rounds went thus.

Round 1 vs. David

Game 1 started on the play with a workshop and crucible. I pass turn and he proceeds to play 2 moxen and an island. My turn I draw wasteland, play sol ring into null rod, he allows it to resolve and attempts to eot telling time (yes I was surprised too). There was a small discussion, since he didn’t realize null rod shuts down artifact mana, and the game was over a few turns later with a tinker titan. Not knowing what I am facing at this point I leave the deck as is to try and get information, and shuffle up for game 2. He proceeds to turn 1 play demon horn (yes demon horn) off moxen and a gorilla shaman. My play was a crucible off workshop again, with waste and strip in hand. He proceeds to play cloudstone curio on his next turn, and chain kobolds to gain about 1 billion life. He cast brain freeze for the win and we go to game 3. Seeing this combo I now know what to side in, bringing in sphere of resistance.  I only remember getting uba lock down early, a welder on turn 1 and board control to lock him out of the game. He died to a titan.

Round 2 vs. Carlos

Carlos and I got to shuffling, and recognized each other from previous events(bluebells and events in Philly) and started chatting. I win the die roll again and elect to play. Turn 1 starts with a few accelerants and a chalice for 0, I pass turn holding an uba, recall, tutor and a blank in hand. He plays a fetch and passes the turn. I draw bazaar, play it, and pass turn, since I feel this is a slow gifts start, he fetches out an underground eot and brainstorms, to which I respond with recall, drawing a crucible, workshop and waste. He plays another fetch and passes turn. My turn I attempt to play crucible off workshop, which gets forced and I pass turn. He fetches out a volcanic and passes turn. on his turn he plays a workshop, drops a gilded lotus and plays thirst. At this point I am immediately reminiscent of old school slaver, and it is what I put him on. My next turn I play uba, and since he has no relevant plays, he scoops, telling me afterwards that I have the game won. I sideboard expecting slaver, but must note that I never actually see a welder at all. Game 2 I only remember being beaten down by a memnarch with him countering much of my early game. I did manage to shut down him stealing my permanents, however, by dropping a null rod once memnarch was in play but without the mana to activate. It was an ugly game for me but I’ll take whatever information I can get. I made the mistake of bringing in powder kegs expecting empty the warrens, which I never see. Game 3 was a tightly contested game and a well-fought battle. He gets a turn 2 tinker titan, me drawing a lot of mana, hitting a duplicant and winning with the dup beats.  We talked for several minutes after the match, and after t8 was done we discussed tech and theory for quite a while, exchanged emails, and had a rather enjoyable conversation. I found out this deck was a variant of 7/10 split, and played like a mixture of that and slaver. I was impressed with its mixture of new and old school and enjoyed the match considerably.

Round 3 vs. Anthony

Anthony is another good player I recognize from previous t1 events. Game 1 lose the die roll and have a typical stax game 1, shutting down most of his resources and using the lock pieces to control the game. He scoops to a titan. Game 2 I am on the draw again, bringing in my kegs for warrens along with crypts and spheres. I feel in retrospect the sideboard needs to be changed, but I’ll get to that later. The game proceeds with him dropping a turn 1 bob and having that take him all the way down to 3, me at 4, when he wins the game, I don’t remember much of that game accept for dropping trin but it being rather irrelevant most of the game. Game 3 I am on the play, he drops a turn 2 bob, I drop turn 1 welder. He takes some beats while I am forced to play keg and wait 2 turns to deal with the bob. He combos me out creating 30something tokens, and I cannot draw an artifact I can play or a way to deal with the tokens and I lose on his next turn.

Although I am slightly disheartened by the loss, I have a cigarette and get ready for the next round.

Round 4 vs. Evan

Evan was building his deck when I arrived at the event and I helped him by making his sideboard and deck better, and this being a pseudo mirror (5c uba vs. mono-red uba), I know the match up very well and I know he is inexperienced with his deck, this will play in my favor. Game 1 I draw a nuts hand, playing turn 1 crucible, turn 2 tinker for titan and win in short order. My deck now goes into hyper change mode, since I side out 9 cards for heretics, seals, crypts and razormanes. Game 2 begins slowly for him, I explode out of the gate and dominate the early game with a turn 1 welder and turn 2 heretic. I blow up his spheres (2 sphere) and begin to lock him out of the game (he suffers from the dreaded mana screw). He never recovers and I have a sick board with 2 welders, 2 heretics, and a titan in hand.

Round 5 vs. Joe

Joe is a good player I ran into at the last Waterbury, and I know he can play very well. Game 1 I fail to drop a relevant lock piece early and he oaths me into oblivion with akroma. Game 2 I completely lock him out with smokestack and win with titan beats. Simply game really I love when that happens. Game 3 I have a god opening hand, but run out of gas and he recovers, oaths up a SSS, and wins when I fail to draw an answer. I do not feel bad, however, since I feel my tiebreakers are good, as the only 2 loses I have at this point are to 2 t8 players, and I have 1 game left which now became a must win.

Round 6 vs. Chris

Chris is a nice guy in the same situation as me. This is a true mirror, however, and I find out he is also not experienced with stax, so I have 1 edge, and that is all I needed to win. Game 1 he had double welder and strip lock to my strip lock and full yard and null rod. I manage to take lots of damage off a crypt I cant keep off the board until I find 2 of my own welders, and the trix ensue. I hit a tinker, nab duplicant, and proceed to win by removing his welders and getting his crucible off the board, he scoops. Game 2 he admits he doesn’t know how to side for the mirror, which I help him with after the round is done. Game 2 I drop a crucible first turn, which is answered by a strip mine. I play my own, a welder off a ruby, and pass turn. He drops his own crucible, and this game is looking rather annoying. I manage to keep his permanent count down and hit him with tangle wire, keeping him tapped down and taking damage from city of brass. This allows me to develop my board and drop razormane, to which he scoops.

I did my part and waited with much anticipation to see how the other matches played out. I watched Carlos play a round against Ichorid (I’m sorry I forget the pilot, feel free to correct me if you know), which was a well-played game on both sides. I am happy to see I finished in 8th, getting my first top 8 birth at bluebell, and check the parings.

Top 8 vs. Jeremy

I see who my opponent is and I cant help but smile, since Jeremy and I have a history of playing against each other and ended up sitting next to each other for most of the day. We talk for a few minutes while shuffling, wish each other luck, and begin our games. Game 1 goes well for the stax player, dropping null rod, chalice, smokestack, and shutting him down with uba lock and a chalice for 0 1 and 2 when he scoops. Games 2 and 3, however, went incredibly well for him, and he dominated me before I could do much. Game 3, however, I made a mistake, which allowed him to combo out, which I caught after the fact.  I was not disappointed, and I said to Jeremy, if I’m going to lose to someone in the T8, I’m glad it was you. I wished him luck the rest of the way, exchanged handshakes and of course, the victory hug, and was happy to hear that he got the Top 4 split. He is an excellent player, plays combo very well, and has had bad beats in the past at Bluebells, and I’m always glad to see someone get his dues.

I can’t say enough for the quality of players that come to this event, some of the very best minds come to Bluebells and play the best format in existence. I’m glad I can compete against them and do this well. I hope to see them all there again and at future events, greet each one with a smile and a handshake. Now without further a due, my deck.

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Mishra’s Workshop
3 Wasteland
Tolarian Academy
Strip mine
Sol ring
Mana Crypt
Black Lotus
5 moxen
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
3 Uba Mask
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
3 Null Rod
Trinisphere
Sundering Titan
Duplicant
4 Goblin Welder
Tinker
Balance
Demonic tutor
Ancestral Recall

Sideboard
2 Razormane Masticore
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Seal of Cleansing
3 Powder Keg
3 Viashino heretic

Well there she is, I welcome all critisims, comments, complaings, omissions, or random jank you wish to add. I will check back so if there are any questions about my card selections I will do my best to answer. I feel the list is solid and there are very few changes that need to be made to the maindeck, the board needs work, and again, I am welcome to all suggestions. Thank you for your time and please come again

Jon Richards
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Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster,
and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Rest in piece Daniel, you will be missed.

to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

Sith Lord-Seperatist Council

"Surrender to the dark side or you will be destroyed."
Imsomniac101
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2007, 03:50:37 am »

That's a really interesting 5c Stax. Could you discuss the differences between your list and say ChangStax?
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Ctrl-Freak>so if my deck is based on the 2 most broken cards in t1,then it sucks?gotcha
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Evenpence>If Jar Wizard were a person, I'd do her
yespuhyren
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2007, 03:24:08 pm »

Null rods are the b iggest thing by far.
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Luecifer
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2007, 03:32:42 pm »

while a big difference, main decking null rods and chalice give me a wide range of versitility game 1, allowing me to shut off many stratagies before they get going. the other big difference between my list and changs (going off his most recent list from waterbury) is uba mask and upping the bazaar count. for any who dont know, or those new to stax, uba mask creates a draw engine with bazaar and an empty hand. dropping uba early also hurts many gifts based decks ability to develop by forcing them to work in a shorter span and not allowing them to hold cards or counters. a minor change, which i include to fit my play style more, is dropping the 4th wasteland in favor of a 4th gemstone mine. this allow more consistency in my draws and color fixing. if there were a way i could make it work i would cut city of brass in a heartbeat but i cannot yet figure that one out.
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Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster,
and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Rest in piece Daniel, you will be missed.

to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

Sith Lord-Seperatist Council

"Surrender to the dark side or you will be destroyed."
EndBringer_XX
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2007, 04:25:25 pm »

 Offtopic-seeing how this is my 1st offical post I just wanted to greet the many great players that attend here. I consider this site a resource and not just a forum.

On topic:
1st off it was pleasure to play against a well versed stax player. They were good games I look forward to more from Jon and eventually seeing him place in the top 4.
Now concerning Jon's deck itself
Null rods are the b iggest thing by far.
I do agree with yespuhyren , but I would take it a little further. The strength of Uba showed because of the big blue meta at blue bell ( meaning decks with drains,forces, card draw ,etc). Also you take a look at his numbers and choices in terms of card selections. They are consistent and solid as is the SB. Over all a well thought out 5c/Uba hybrid reminds me of some of the 1st forms of uba orginally.

I actually enjoyed the discussion of theory from a stax perspective a lot. Some understand what I mean by he understands his deck. He doesn't just play it. Which is why Jon definitely has my respect. I have had similar discussions with yespuhyren and Colby before which I also greatly enjoyed.
My 3 and ahalf cents
Peace Carlos
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2007, 05:04:21 pm »

how has mana crypt been doing for you and why aren't you running mana vault. It is a colorless dark ritual and seeing you run a full set of cities it might acually be a determining factor against decks like ichorid and fish, maybe even gifts. with vault and an active stack, you wouldn't ever take damage from that. also, in a gifts filled meta, do you think the 8 colored lands and 3 wastelands was the best idea. Gifts can fetch basics but eventually they almost need a dual to power out the non-blue spells. also decks like Brassman Gifts only uses 2 or 3 basics, unlike MDG which uses 5 islands.
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Gekoratel
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2007, 05:28:16 pm »

How big of a problem was Empty the Warrens for you, I only saw 1 game where you lost to it but it seems like your sideboard would want to have some way to address that card.  The most popular choice that I've seen in Slice and Dice.  Is your plan against Empty to just run out some combination Resistor, Chalice, and Null Rod and hope they can't cast it?
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Luecifer
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2007, 06:01:09 pm »

To answer misslehead:  mana crypt has been good as it is an early accellerant which can power out almost the entire deck on turn 1 with a shop. i had been running mana vault in my mono red build, since there was actually less colored spells in that list. you make a good point about an active smokestack and not taking damage, but the downside to this deck is that you take alot of pain from your lands, and xtra pain from a vault, although not as common, can hurt and cost you games. the mana base i chose for its consistency, and i did consider the heavy gifts and drain based action that would be in bluebell. it was a common play for me to tutor up a stripmine in the early turns to lock out the gifts player early and hold them back. i also chose this mana base because i have seen many bluebells where the meta was heavy fish, and with bomberman growing in popularity, i didnt want to risk running less colored sources and being wasted out myself.

To answer Gekoratel: yes i do try to lock out gifts in the early going to hold off empty, but my answer to that is powder keg. in testing gifts would often turn 2 create 8-12 tokens, emptying most of their hand, allowing me to drop keg off a shop, blow it, and cripple their board of moxen and tokens. while i believe most of the better gifts players are prepared for this, it is my answer with 5 color. slice and dice is seen mostly in mono red, and i have considered that and engineered explosives as possible answers to warrens. my choice of keg is because it is much easier to drop and blow than explosives or slice and dice. while slice and dice is uncounterable and will continue to see play, i believe 5c will make best use of powder keg over s&d.
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Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster,
and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Rest in piece Daniel, you will be missed.

to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

Sith Lord-Seperatist Council

"Surrender to the dark side or you will be destroyed."
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2007, 08:45:26 pm »

If your worry about Empty the Warrens. I would test out Engineered Explostives. I played one main deck, I also sb one. They also can help stop there storm from pile up. You can blow explostives up in response to there rebuild. This will help lower the storm count and slow there mana base down.If you did this you would have to sb out your Null Rods Sad .
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Smmenen
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2007, 09:25:24 pm »


Top 8 vs. Jeremy

I see who my opponent is and I cant help but smile, since Jeremy and I have a history of playing against each other and ended up sitting next to each other for most of the day. We talk for a few minutes while shuffling, wish each other luck, and begin our games. Game 1 goes well for the stax player, dropping null rod, chalice, smokestack, and shutting him down with uba lock and a chalice for 0 1 and 2 when he scoops. Games 2 and 3, however, went incredibly well for him, and he dominated me before I could do much. Game 3, however, I made a mistake, which allowed him to combo out, which I caught after the fact.  I was not disappointed, and I said to Jeremy, if I’m going to lose to someone in the T8, I’m glad it was you. I wished him luck the rest of the way, exchanged handshakes and of course, the victory hug, and was happy to hear that he got the Top 4 split. He is an excellent player, plays combo very well, and has had bad beats in the past at Bluebells, and I’m always glad to see someone get his dues.


Nice report but: What did Jeremy play?   You don't describe what he plays at all - not even one card.   How did he beat you?
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Luecifer
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2007, 09:34:36 pm »

my appologies, jeremey was playing pitch long splashing the red for warrens out of the board
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Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster,
and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Rest in piece Daniel, you will be missed.

to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

Sith Lord-Seperatist Council

"Surrender to the dark side or you will be destroyed."
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2007, 09:47:20 pm »

my appologies, jeremey was playing pitch long splashing the red for warrens out of the board

He had recoup, too. And he had abeyance out of the board. it was a really interesting list.
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desolutionist
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2007, 11:04:36 pm »

Jon, would you say that Empty is only equally as effective as Colossus against Stax?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 11:09:14 pm by desolutionist » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2007, 11:10:58 pm »

to answer Mike.   
      When Jon and I dicussed the powder keg or explosives question we came to the conclusion that powder keg was far superior.  To take out goblins tokens with either it takes 2 mana, but to blow up explosives shop mana can not be used.   
 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 11:16:26 pm by Call of the D Herd » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2007, 11:40:01 pm »

Oh im sorry, I just read the wording on Powder Keg. I was thinking you could only blow it during your upkeep. That was the counters, I was thinking of. I also didnt think about casting it with workshop. Plus usually your set a chalise at zero, before two making it easier to play around your chalise.

I think your right about it being the best. Im glad people still play stax and congrats on the finish with it!!!
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yespuhyren
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2007, 11:46:13 pm »

Jon, would you say that Empty is only equally as effective as Colossus against Stax?

As far as Ubastax is concerned

Colossus >>>>>> ETW as a threat.  While you can do a lot to stop the ETW plan, by playing lock pieces Etc, at least you have a chance.  DSC means if you do not have an active welder in play, and you do not resolve one the next turn, that is it.  You lose.  Period.  End of story.  I don't fear warrens nearly as much, especially if i side in for it.  The only good thing about Colossus is that thanks to PC, we have a new card to get rid of Colossus, though it is just a bit late as it isn't so played anymore, but Dead/Gone is great.  I even picked up a foil for 3 bucks Very Happy
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TK: Tinker saccing Mox.
Jamison: Hard cast FoW.
TK: Ha! Tricked you! I'm out of targets
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2007, 11:50:06 pm »

Nice report but: What did Jeremy play?   You don't describe what he plays at all - not even one card.   How did he beat you?




Here is the list that I played.  When I have some more time I will try to get some type of report up about my day.
 
Artifacts:
 
 1- Mox Ruby
 1- Mox Jet
 1- Mox Sapphire
 1- Mox Emerald
 1- Mox Pearl
 1- Black Lotus
 1- Lion's Eye Diamond
 1- Lotus Petal
 1- Mana Vault
 1- Mana Crypt
 1- Sol Ring

Blue:

 4- Brainstorm
 4- Force of Will
 2- Misdirection
 1- Rebuild
 1- Ancestral Recall
 1- Chain of Vapor
 1- TimeTwister
 1- Mind's Desire
 1- Mystical Tutor
 1- Gifts Ungiven

Black:

 4- Dark Ritual
 3- Grim Tutor
 3- Duress
 2- Cabal Ritual
 2- Tendrils of Agony
 1- Yawgmoth's Bargain
 1- Yawgmoth's Will
 1- Vampiric Tutor
 1- Demonic Tutor
 1- Imperial Seal

Red:
 1- Recoup

Land
 3- Polluted Delta
 3- Underground Sea
 2- Bloodstained Mire
 1- Volcanic Island
 1- Badlands
 1- Island
 1- Tolarian Academy

 SB - 3- Abeyance
        2- Pyroblast
        2- Massacre
        2- Empty the Warrens
        1- Scrubland
        1- Tundra
        1- Hurkyl's Recall
        1- Sundering Titan
        1- Tinker
        1- Jester's Cap
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 11:56:46 pm by Cunningbeaver » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2007, 11:53:42 pm »

Jon, would you say that Empty is only equally as effective as Colossus against Stax?

As far as Ubastax is concerned

Colossus >>>>>> ETW as a threat.  While you can do a lot to stop the ETW plan, by playing lock pieces Etc, at least you have a chance.  DSC means if you do not have an active welder in play, and you do not resolve one the next turn, that is it.  You lose.  Period.  End of story.  I don't fear warrens nearly as much, especially if i side in for it.  The only good thing about Colossus is that thanks to PC, we have a new card to get rid of Colossus, though it is just a bit late as it isn't so played anymore, but Dead/Gone is great.  I even picked up a foil for 3 bucks Very Happy
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TK: Tinker saccing Mox.
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TK: Ha! Tricked you! I'm out of targets
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2007, 12:17:34 am »

Jon, would you say that Empty is only equally as effective as Colossus against Stax?

As far as Ubastax is concerned

Colossus >>>>>> ETW as a threat.  While you can do a lot to stop the ETW plan, by playing lock pieces Etc, at least you have a chance.  DSC means if you do not have an active welder in play, and you do not resolve one the next turn, that is it.  You lose.  Period.  End of story.  I don't fear warrens nearly as much, especially if i side in for it.  The only good thing about Colossus is that thanks to PC, we have a new card to get rid of Colossus, though it is just a bit late as it isn't so played anymore, but Dead/Gone is great.  I even picked up a foil for 3 bucks Very Happy

Its what I assumed.
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2007, 02:13:12 am »

I have to agree with yespuhyren in his assesment of colossus and warrens against uba stax. i knew that it was coming in against me and not once was i afraid of having to deal with it.
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Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster,
and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Rest in piece Daniel, you will be missed.

to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

Sith Lord-Seperatist Council

"Surrender to the dark side or you will be destroyed."
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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2007, 07:47:23 am »

Quote
Game 2 I only remember being beaten down by a memnarch

So Carlos is playing Memnarch now in his slaver?  Thats great. I remember about 3 tournaments ago I dropped memnarch against him our slaver mirror. He just kind of stared and said, "Memnarch?" 

Congratz on the top 8.  Sorry I missed this one (my 6 yr olds birthday party...guess that's legit enough), but I'll be back at the next one.  Glad to hear everybody is still having a great time.

Also, I didn't think it was legal yet, but I sawi it in some other tournament reports on this site: Did extirpate make any appearances at blue bell?

« Last Edit: February 13, 2007, 01:49:31 am by Khahan » Logged

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