[Single Card Discussion] - Aven Mindcensor

[Machinus]

Basically, this card wrecked me this weekend. It was in so many decks - Bomberman, Fish, TMWA, and others that I don't know the names of. I completely underestimated this card before the tournament and it cost me multiple games.

How is this card going to impact the format overall? Is it popular enough to push decks away from using tutors? What about fetchlands?

What is the best way to use the card? What about answering it?

[Smmenen]

In my set review, I posted that it was one of the top 5 cards in Future Sight for impacting Vintage.   Maybe you should have read that

Seriously though, we have been seeing a ton of Bomberman decks doing well in the last few weeks.     I've seen Dan Cunningham's list top 2 the last few weeks.   In addition, there were *TWO* Mindcensor Bomberman decks in the Mean Deck Open's top 4 last weekend.   

We made a concerted effort to thoroughly test that matchup and understand the role of Aven Mindcensor.   

Mindcensor exploits each and every angle of the formats tactical manuvers:
1) Gifts
2) Grim Tutor
3) Flash combo

Most major decks rely on tutors and fetchlands with the glaring exception of Ichorid.

On the other hand, we discovered something else critically important: Aven Mindcensor, while amazing, is a card whose greatest weakness is opponent's playskill/knowledge.   

Here are the critical points:

1) Mindcensor costs 3.    At every point in time in my testing against Bomberman, if my opponent had W2 available, I would assume that they can play Mindcensor.  I realize this could box me in, but if I wasn't in a desperate situation and if my oppponent had a decent sized hand, making this assumption ensured that I didn't walk into a Mindcensor.    There are two signficant subpoints I want to elicit: 1) the Bomberman decks don't always have 3 mana up.  They may want to actually counter a spell and have only 1 or 2 mana up.    At that point, you can break fetchlands etc.    2) sometimes, not very often, but sometimes, Bomberman can't find or keep a White open.    It may have like UU and Mox Emerald.    The Whilte will sometimes  be in demand or simply not present.

2) Mindcensor is a 2/1.   The importance of this is that most players biggest mistake against Mindcensor is going to be a feeling that once Mindcensor comes down they have to win immediately or lose.

This is a huge tactical error.  It forces people to speed up and try to play faster against Mindcensor Bomberman - which plays directly into their game plan.  On the other hand, once the Mindcensor hits, they'll play too aggressively.

2/1 is not a clock.   Even two Mindcensors on the board is not a clock.   

It's much like playing against SS.   trying to rush and beat it is an equation for losing.

The solution is to wait and play patiently.   

For instance, let's say you have a fetchland on the table and you *really* want that land or you have a Merchant Scroll.   Just wait.    There is no need to break or play these cards immediately.   Let the Mihdcensor beat you down a few turns, if possible and then break.   You dramatically increase the chance of find a cad.

That's another problem with Mindcensor:

3) you can still search the top 4 cards.
That's really the critical flaw.   Combined with the fact that it is only a 2/1, you can slow down your play and the Mindcensor loses most of its effectiveness as a true hoser. 

4) Your opponent will often want to play it as an instant to "counter" one of your key tutors.
This is a reasonble thing your opponent will want to do.   Take advantage of this fact and manipulate your opponent in this regard.    For instance, if you *want* your opponent to play Mindcensor, break a Fetchland or play a Merchant Scroll when it is advantagous for you to do so.   

For instance,

Let's say your Bomberman opponent has untapped:
Island, Island, Plains, Mox Emerald

You have:

Volcanic Island, Underground Sea, Island, Polluted Delta

And your hand is Scroll, Dark Ritual, Necropotence, blue spell, etc, etc.

I might tap the Island and Volc to play Merchant Scroll in the hopes of luring out the Mindcensor so that my Necro can resolve (without them being able to play the Drain).    Alternatively, you can bait first by breaking the Delta.   

These little tactical tricks are amazingly effective. 

In sum: the key to beating Mindcensor is anticipating it, playing around it, waiting to play tutors to increase the chances that you'll have targets to search out, and using the Mindcensor to bait and trap your opponent.   

I honestly think that Mindcensor, while amazingly effective at hosing narrow decks, will lose most of its effectiveness once people learn how to play around it better.  In game one testing, the Mean Deck was 9-2 against the Mindcensor Bomberman deck, and we decided it wasn't even worth playing the game one match anymore.

Stephen

[The Atog Lord]

Aven Mindcensor has shown itself in my testing to be a very strong card, and a card at its best against degenerate decks. He has the effect of making many of the most powerful cards in Type One less effective than cards that aren't played. Demonic Tutor, for instance, becomes a worse Impulse. As Steve pointed out, he isn't going to end the game alone against decks. If your plan is to go all-in on Aven Mindcensor, you won't beat a good opponent. However, he is very powerful when used as one component of a dynamic control strategy. Paired with cards such as Force of Will, he gets much stronger. Shutting down some of the opponent's cards allows you to focus on other threats, just as using Triskelion against Control Slaver lets you not worry about countering their Welders and instead focus on stopping the draw. So, no, he isn't going to win the game alone. But if properly supported, he can be a part of a game-winning control strategy. I think he's very powerful, and makes white a much stronger color.

[ManaDrainChile]

Aven Mindcensor have high cost, tree mana is too much if you search a good responce for a combo decks, for example in my test , its same and less good than a counter(manadrain) for example in deck since Bomberman, but in decks since Stax is a very good strategy, combinated whit other stuff of artifact, you can used Aven to control tutors, fetch for example... is only my opinion but in my deck not have space for more cards.. and Aven not is a Irreplaceable card 

[Vegeta2711]

Part of it is also that people are just going to play like donkeys against it for the first couple of months while getting used to something that directly messes with the comfort zone many people are used too. Eventually it'll lose some amount of effectiveness just like every other disruption spell because people will get used to it.

[Implacable]

Part of it is also that people are just going to play like donkeys against Standstill for the first couple of months while getting used to something that directly messes with the comfort zone many people are used too. Eventually Standstill will lose some amount of effectiveness just like every other disruption spell because people will get used to it.

Changes bolded.

Mindcensor works along the same principle.  Playing with Flash, Mindcensor is a huge threat, and I've still learned a lot about playing against it.  Learning to play against a very situational  card like this makes it worse.  In the long run, players might switch back to disruption that can't be 'played around' to such a degree.

[sean1i0]

I've only gotten a chance to test this card (in Bomberman) a small amount, but I would like to throw in my 2 cents from that testing.  It seems to me that Aven Mindcensor aids Bomberman, along with the tutors for such situational cards as Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, Aether Spellbomb, and Engineered Explosives, in attacking the other deck at its "pressure points," so to speak.  What I mean by that is that while playing this decently fast combo-control deck with traditional control elements such as Mana Drain, Force of Will, and Misdirection, you also have incredible access to an entire array of cards that can and do hit decks where they're weak.  (For example, Tormod's Crypt against Ichorid, Flash, and Will decks, Pithing Needle against Slaver, Stax (Wastelands, etc.), Fish, and Ichorid, and so on and so forth.)  Combining that with another card that hits the opposing decks ability to search (even if it just constricts that ability) through its library to me just puts Bomberman in a "winning" position.

What I mean by that is not that Bomberman automatically wins, but rather that the other deck must fight an uphill battle and that Bomberman just feels like it keeps the edge in most games.  In many ways it makes me feel like I'm playing Keeper again, only this time Keeper has better disruption and is a combo deck.

So, I suppose that drawing from that experience my overall feeling about Aven Mindcensor is this:  I do not feel that this is a card that just wins games, although in some situations it can do that, but rather it is a powerful weapon to add to already potent decks.  It is wonderful at constricting an opposing decks functionality and at putting the pressure in exactly the right places.

[TopSecret]

What about answering it?

Darkblast (combined with Brainstorm and the like)
Lava Dart
Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth
Sulfur Elemental (Uncounterable, and trades with Salvagers)
Engineered Plague (Naming Wizard)
Dread of Night

[Vegeta2711]

What about answering it?

Darkblast (combined with Brainstorm and the like)
Lava Dart
Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth
Sulfur Elemental (Uncounterable, and trades with Salvagers)
Engineered Plague (Naming Wizard)
Dread of Night

And of course for good cards you can add as a 1-of to kick in is Fire/Ice or Slaughter Pact.

[Sextiger]

The problem with answering Mindcensor is that he stalls you from finding the answer and by then the Bomberman player may have accumulated a handful of counters to deal with anything.  There is still is very few cards out there that are good against Bomberman and most people cost themselves games by sideboarding in too much. 

[Smmenen]

"_______" has shown itself in my testing to be a very strong card, and a card at its best against degenerate decks. He has the effect of making many of the most powerful cards in Type One less effective than cards that aren't played.  As Steve pointed out, he isn't going to end the game alone against decks. If your plan is to go all-in on "____________", you won't beat a good opponent. However... Paired with cards such as Force of Will, he gets much stronger. Shutting down some of the opponent's cards allows you to focus on other threats, just as using Triskelion against Control Slaver lets you not worry about countering their Welders and instead focus on stopping the draw. So, no, "______" isn't going to win the game alone. But if properly supported, he can be a part of a game-winning control strategy.

Rich wrote "Aven Mindcensor" - but another card that seems to fit Rich's description quite well is Null Rod.   In my opinion, Null Rod is even more broken in terms of being a straight anti- Vintage card.  When supported by Force of Will, Null Rod is a monster.    However, by itself it won't win games, but needs to be supported by a powerful strategy.    It doesn't surprise me that Null Rod deck got 2nd place (assuming the UWB Fish list ran Rods). 

[Meddling Mike]

"_______" has shown itself in my testing to be a very strong card, and a card at its best against degenerate decks. He has the effect of making many of the most powerful cards in Type One less effective than cards that aren't played.  As Steve pointed out, he isn't going to end the game alone against decks. If your plan is to go all-in on "____________", you won't beat a good opponent. However... Paired with cards such as Force of Will, he gets much stronger. Shutting down some of the opponent's cards allows you to focus on other threats, just as using Triskelion against Control Slaver lets you not worry about countering their Welders and instead focus on stopping the draw. So, no, "______" isn't going to win the game alone. But if properly supported, he can be a part of a game-winning control strategy.

Rich wrote "Aven Mindcensor" - but another card that seems to fit Rich's description quite well is Null Rod.   In my opinion, Null Rod is even more broken in terms of being a straight anti- Vintage card.  When supported by Force of Will, Null Rod is a monster.    However, by itself it won't win games, but needs to be supported by a powerful strategy.    It doesn't surprise me that Null Rod deck got 2nd place (assuming the UWB Fish list ran Rods). 

The difference is this, Null Rod works both ways, playing null rods keeps you from playing artifacts of your own and as such would be horrendous in a deck like bomberman, Mindcensor just works on your opponent and therefore makes an excellent inclusion. Mindcensor is also a 2/1 flyer with flash, it's other abilities aside, which means it's never dead. There are times when running null rod is bad simply because you will run into matchups where it's a dead card, because mindcensor is a guy playing with him to put some damage on the table means he's never dead.

All I can say is that I think this card is really good in any deck that sports some sort of aggro plan as he provides a good body, evasion and good disruption at a very reasonable cost. I've also found that the strength of this card is easy to underestimate as you may not be aware of the tutors your opponent isn't casting due to the mindcensor.

[Implacable]

I agree fully with Meddling Mage that the fact that Aven Mindcensor is not symmetrical is what makes it so powerful.  Traditionally, powerful hate cards by their own design are necessarily put into less powerful decks than those that they aim to hate.  A hate card that works well in a fully powered deck is both a rarity and a treasure.

[Smmenen]

"_______" has shown itself in my testing to be a very strong card, and a card at its best against degenerate decks. He has the effect of making many of the most powerful cards in Type One less effective than cards that aren't played.  As Steve pointed out, he isn't going to end the game alone against decks. If your plan is to go all-in on "____________", you won't beat a good opponent. However... Paired with cards such as Force of Will, he gets much stronger. Shutting down some of the opponent's cards allows you to focus on other threats, just as using Triskelion against Control Slaver lets you not worry about countering their Welders and instead focus on stopping the draw. So, no, "______" isn't going to win the game alone. But if properly supported, he can be a part of a game-winning control strategy.

Rich wrote "Aven Mindcensor" - but another card that seems to fit Rich's description quite well is Null Rod.   In my opinion, Null Rod is even more broken in terms of being a straight anti- Vintage card.  When supported by Force of Will, Null Rod is a monster.    However, by itself it won't win games, but needs to be supported by a powerful strategy.    It doesn't surprise me that Null Rod deck got 2nd place (assuming the UWB Fish list ran Rods). 

The difference is this, Null Rod works both ways, playing null rods keeps you from playing artifacts of your own and as such would be horrendous in a deck like bomberman, Mindcensor just works on your opponent and therefore makes an excellent inclusion. Mindcensor is also a 2/1 flyer with flash, it's other abilities aside, which means it's never dead. There are times when running null rod is bad simply because you will run into matchups where it's a dead card, because mindcensor is a guy playing with him to put some damage on the table means he's never dead.

All I can say is that I think this card is really good in any deck that sports some sort of aggro plan as he provides a good body, evasion and good disruption at a very reasonable cost. I've also found that the strength of this card is easy to underestimate as you may not be aware of the tutors your opponent isn't casting due to the mindcensor.

I realize there are obvious limits to the analogy I was drawing - I was simply struck but how many similarities there were.   

[Grand Inquisitor]

Following up Meddling Mage's point, cards not being dead seems to be the hallmark of the new metagame deck design.  It's easy to say "really, play with cards that do stuff?", but as the format speeds up, every card must be impactful across matchups, and within the first few turns.  Since mindcensor is effectively trimodal, it can adapt itself to any early gamestate.

[Polynomial P]

Mindcensor is really adding playability to W-based aggro-control decks. Mindcensor is amazing in a format where all of the top tier decks, save ichorid, are tutor based. Even mana bases are tutor based, so mindcensor is not dead against any deck (except ichorid). While Mindcensor will rarely win you the game outright, the decks he is played in are not going to stop after casting a single mindcensor. They will throw glowriders, null rods, FOWs, ninjas, confidants, magus of the moon, etc at the opponent during the turn or two that mindcensor buys. On his own, mindcensor is a good card, but he is best as a part of a grander strategy of mana denial or permission.

If you decide to play around mindcensor every time your opponent has 2W open, then he functions like daze in slowing down the opponent. And if you play into an opponent with 2W open, then you risk getting a critical tutor countered. The best thing about mindcensor is that he cuts off options from game winning options or even from tutoring for a hate card that can deal with your x/1s. Mindcensor should be an auto-include in any aggro-control deck that supports white.

Its just amazing that the threat of mindcensor is almost as good as mindcensor himself.

[Phele]

Mindcensor is not "dead" just again Ichorid, its most of the time just a 2/1 Beater against Oath and less tutor centric Staxx builds.

[Jo84]

Mindcensor isn´t a dead card against any deck that uses Fetchlands... so only tutorless Staxx is left together with Ichorid.

[Dxfiler]

What about answering it?

Sulfur Elemental (Uncounterable, and trades with Salvagers)

A certain individual made of metal already ran this card to a top 8 at SCG last week in his gifts sideboard.  He told me it was insane against mindcensor and he cleared entire boards with it versus fish.  The fact that it trades with salvagers is icing on the cake and I know he brought it in against bomberman as well.

Sulfur elemental is probably the best single answer to mindcensor in the format.

- Dave Feinstein