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Author Topic: The Zoolution  (Read 3297 times)
gamegeek2
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« on: April 18, 2009, 07:26:11 pm »

This is a deck I've been testing on MWS lately. It's performing well against the dominant Mana Drain decks, and doing well against Storm as well. It's largely inspired by RG Beats, combined with disruptive creatures from white.

// Lands
    2 Forest
    1 Plains
    1 Mountain
    2 Plateau
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Taiga
    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Windswept Heath
    1 Savannah

// Creatures
    3 Mogg Fanatic
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    2 Elvish Spirit Guide
    3 Gaddock Teeg
    3 Ethersworn Canonist
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Stingscourger

// Spells
    1 Lotus Petal
    4 Null Rod
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Pyroblast

// Sideboard
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Path to Exile
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Leyline of the Void

Any help tweaking the deck is much appreciated.
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2009, 02:50:27 pm »

I don't think magus of the moon is all that great when you run 3 colors and I just don't
Think many decks lose to it right now because of all the basics out there. I'm not exactly sure how I'd replace it but I might try the new GW guy from Alara Reborn who saccs to destroy an artifact or enchantment.
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Tobi
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2009, 04:16:00 am »

I don't think magus of the moon is all that great when you run 3 colors and I just don't
Think many decks lose to it right now because of all the basics out there. I'm not exactly sure how I'd replace it but I might try the new GW guy from Alara Reborn who saccs to destroy an artifact or enchantment.

The guy is named Qasali Pridemage and is definitely worth it, and much better than Magus in this deck. This will also greatly increase your Oath matchup if you run into it someday.

edit: typo
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 04:23:49 am by Tobi » Logged

2b || !2b
TopSecret
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2009, 11:45:50 am »

You could take a look at Knight of the Reliquary.
It has synergy with your 8 Fetches, your mana denial theme, and is a huge beater.
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Ball and Chain
gamegeek2
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 07:39:26 pm »

All sound good...just not straight up GW (way too few options).

The mage sounds great.
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jaeppel
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 12:55:43 pm »

 i dont think the single lotus petal is really worth it here.  its a tiny bit of random acceleration that suddenly makes all of your lock artifacts vulnerable to welder.  i think the liability outweighs your chances of randomly dropping a 2-drop t1.  black lotus is so broken that generally one ignores the welder problem.. petal just isnt.  at the very least it should be the first card to board out when facing anything with welders.
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Most decks are better with restricted cards.
Restrict: Drain, Workshop, Bazaar, Skullclamp.
Unrestrict: LoAlexandria, Manavault, Frantic Search, Burning Wish, FoFiction,TfK, Regrowth, 3sphere, DemConsultation.
Fix: Zodiac Dragon, Transmute Artifac
Gekoratel
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 01:08:46 pm »

How good have you found Stingscourger to be, at least in my meta nearly everyone is running Inkwell so he would do very little against Drain decks.  If your looking for an efficient beater Wild Nactal is strong because it puts your opponent on a quick clock.  Another option is Tin-Street Hooligan who fits the role of mana denial.
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thecman
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 01:57:11 pm »

Here is a version that goes more along the beats route with less disruption but that has been working out pretty well for me.

Quote
4 aether vial
4 kird ape
4 wild nacatl
4 mogg fanatic
4 skyshroud elite
4 Tarmogoyfs
4 tin street hooligan
4 lightning bolt
2 teeg
2 canonist
2 path to exile
4 taiga
2 plateau
1 savannah
4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heath
3 skullclamp
1 black lotus
1 mox ruby
1 mox emerald
1 mox pearl

Vial and clamp are both really good but obviously you can't run them with rods so you're forced to go one way or the other.

The pridemage will definately make the cut after the release, probably at the expense of tin-street.  Its good in more machups (oath) has a bigger body (clamp) and still works off vial.

I was originally running stingscourgers in the place of the paths but I think the paths are definately better in that slot since stingscourger almost never sticks around.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2009, 02:46:45 pm »

What is your answer for Inkwell Leviathan? 
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Guli
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2009, 03:04:50 pm »

What is your answer for Inkwell Leviathan? 
Isn't that the issue with most fish out there.

Aven Mindcensor should be run 4x. Next to that there are not many options but yea the last list posted does have a lot of fire power on the ground. The tinker has to come very early or else it won't cut it.

Maybe that is the answer. Just play Aven and support them with goyfs and lots of kird apes. Raw power.
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thecman
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2009, 03:13:15 pm »

What is your answer for Inkwell Leviathan? 

There was no answer to Inkwell.  Unfortunately that's the problem with not running blue or black, there's no untargeted answers.  At the time it wasn't an issue because Inkwell was just starting to gain in popularity, but going forward that will certainly need to be addressed.  Looking at the Alara Reborn spoilers Fight to the Death (RW instant) might be the new alternative to Path out of the board.  Not as cheep, but then again not everything needs to be.

If anyone can think of any good non-targeted removal in these colors that I might be missing point it out and I'll give it some thought.

Edit: typo
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It just says to me that you've played enough to know what end of the FoW is sharp
Smmenen
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2009, 03:26:47 pm »

What is your answer for Inkwell Leviathan? 

There was no answer to Inkwell. 

I completely disagree.  There are lots of answers to Inkwell, of varying strength and quality.

In any case, your answer is just lazy.  My view is that it's the responsibility of the poster/designer to propose solutions rather than wait until someone else proposes it and endorse it later.   

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thecman
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2009, 04:15:59 pm »

@Smmenen: My point was not that an answer did not exist, just that the list I posted did specifically not include one.  Also, a solution was proposed and the request was simply for additional solutions that others have cosidered or tried.  I realize that I am not perfect and have not considered every option, therefore I was looking for input.  I believe this is what the improvement forum is for.  If that is not correct I would be happy to seek advise elsewhere.
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It just says to me that you've played enough to know what end of the FoW is sharp
JDawg13
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2009, 05:09:08 pm »

Unfortunately that's the problem with not running blue or black, there's no untargeted answers.

That's just patently untrue.  There's plenty of untargeted answers.  Search the Gatherer for "destroy all artifacts" and you'll find plenty of solutions to Inkwell Leviathan that might happen to help in other situations as well.  For instance, Serenity, Seeds of Innocence, and Pulverize.  I'm in no situation to say whether or not those cards are any good, but they're on-color untargeted answers to Inkwell Leviathan.  They also happen to be useful in the Stax matchup, but they're not optimal there.
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thecman
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2009, 05:24:36 pm »

You are correct and that is my fault for posting too hastily and not clearly expressing myself.

What I was trying to say is that I have seen discussion of sacrifice effects in black and bounce effects in blue, but not for good answers in other colors.

Edit: I think "plenty" is a bit of a stretch.  Searching Gatherer for destroy and artifact and not target in red, green, and/or white gives a grand total of 19 results of which the 3 you listed are the only ones that are remotely playable in this deck.  My thoughts on them follow:

Pulverize – Two lands just seems like too much of a setback to overcome.  You can’t even use Vial to make up the lost tempo.
Seeds of Innocence – Three mana for an STP at sorcery speed seems slow and weak.  The life gain just gives them too much extra time to take control of the game.
Serenity – Definitely playable, but having to wait a turn makes it vulnerable.

I'm not saying that they wont work just that none of them seem to be "good" answers.

With a little more digging I was also able to come up with Retribution of the Meek and Thornweald Archer, both of which have the added benefit of being useful against Empyrial Archangel out of the board from Oath.

Of the options it seems like Archer would be the best option, so I'll substitute it in for my Paths and do some testing this weekend.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 08:10:24 pm by thecman » Logged

It just says to me that you've played enough to know what end of the FoW is sharp
JudasKilled
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2009, 03:10:53 pm »

I honestly hate to say it but the  decklist in general just looks to be trash, if your gonna run aggro disruption almost every single card has to have disruption potential.  Yer not gonna out speed the tier vintage decks with 40% beats 60% disruption.  Just wont happen against anyone good.
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TopSecret
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« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2009, 12:12:04 am »

Of the options it seems like Archer would be the best option, so I'll substitute it in for my Paths and do some testing this weekend.
If you need more methods of dealing with Inkwell, in addition to the Archer,
you could add 4 Skyshroud Elite, up the Elvish Spirit Guide count to 4 (It's an elf!),
and then add Wren's Run Vanquisher,
since you'd have 12 other elves after those changes, which I am assuming would be enough.

Tangle Asp and Loyal Sentry are the only other creatures I can think of, but they're not that great.

You could always add in some big guys and hope to race.
It's not a bad plan if done right, since Inkwell only has 7 power.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 12:42:37 pm by TopSecret » Logged

Ball and Chain
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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2009, 11:35:34 am »

natural order? that could get progenitus, hellkite overlord, the angel moat thing, or any number of other big guys.
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