MonoR Stax and the optimal use of Bazaar of Baghdad

[BruiZar]

Although I didn't play MonoR Stax, I did play a Workshop aggro build with Leyline of Sanctity and Serum Powder in the sideboard. I had Leyline of Sanctity against oath once. I lacked gas to capitalize on my spheres and he just went infinite turns on me. That was the only action my leylines saw all day. I'm not going to discount them yet, because they haven't seen enough play on my side yet.

[Leooooh]

Hey,

Have anybody tried to run a RG mana base in the mono-red stax, so we could add Nature's Claim and possibly even Ancient Grudge????

Both cards cards have plenty of uses. Claim is the faster answer to oath, and Grudge with Claim are really useful against MUD/Tezz/Mirror.

Nowadays, we only pack some Dupes against those Oath builds. Using claim we could even cast a Chalice @2 and still have the claims for the vault key.

Here is an attempt of making a different side.

2 Duplicant
1 Razormane
3 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Leyline of the Void (not so sure, maybe will be replaca by Tormod's, but if the new white leyline sees play in chorid, then we might consder running this)
3 Relic of Progenitus


Thoughts?????

[Twaun007]

Hey,

Have anybody tried to run a RG mana base in the mono-red stax, so we could add Nature's Claim and possibly even Ancient Grudge????

Back in 2009 Tommy Kolowith won the ICBM open #8 with this RG Stax list.


1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Black Lotus
4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Taiga
4 Barbarian Ring
4 Goblin Welder
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
1 Duplicant
1 Platinum Angel
4 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
3 Null Rod

SB:
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pyroclasm

I think there was a tournament report some where, but I couldn't find it.

Yangtime and myself also played an experimental RG stax list for a Philly Open awhile back with main decked Nature's Claims. The idea was sound, but it didn't pan out as theorized. I still got smoked by Oath and the Nature's Claims didn't synergize well with Lodestone Golem, CotV, and Mishra's Workshop.

You have to realize that the 1 for 1 Nature's Clam provides isn't strong enough to combat the Blue mages. While you're busy 1 for 1'ing them they're digging and gaining incremental card advantage with every spell cast. Being a Workshop pilots we're all ready at a disadvantage when it comes to card a draw and library manipulation. You Nature's Claim their permanent and they just go get something else.  

Its ok vs. MUD and other Workshop decks, but when your deck has Welder in it CotV@1 is an auto play for MUD.

If I were to play a deck like TK's list I would run City of Brass so I could splash for Ray of Revelation.

My board would probably look something like this

3 Ancient Grudge
3 Ray of Revelation
2 Natures Claim
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 more cards for Ichorid I guess... idk.

[Leooooh]

This was the exactly the list I was using to work on this sideboard. As you said Nature's Claim proved to be not so powerful for stax. RIght now I am testing a 5c mana base so I am abble to add ray of revelation.

Here is the list:

4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Duplicant
(9)

1 Lotus
5 MOxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
(8)

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Null rod
3 Sphere of Resistence
1 Trinisphere
(22)

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
(21)


SB:

3 Ray of Revelation
3 Ancient Grudge
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Duplicants


I posted some detailed ideas on the SB for Workshops Thread. Take a look there pls, if you wanna see more information about the sb plan.

The only thing that I am not so confidant are the Gemstone mines......This card is not so powerful like City.....But this is only a test.....We need to test before saying that it doesn't work or if it is bad!

Thoughts?

[TheWhiteDragon]

@BC

If you had a bunch of mana, why didn't you just cast the resistor?  Pitching 3 lands seems ok if you cast the resistor...pitching three lands and passing with a lock piece in hand seemed very bad.  I don't know if it was the misuse of bazaar that was bad so much as bringing a gun to a knife fight...and forgetting to pull the trigger.

I see this post is a bit belated, but I was wondering why you made the play error.

[Twaun007]

@BC

If you had a bunch of mana, why didn't you just cast the resistor?  Pitching 3 lands seems ok if you cast the resistor...pitching three lands and passing with a lock piece in hand seemed very bad.  I don't know if it was the misuse of bazaar that was bad so much as bringing a gun to a knife fight...and forgetting to pull the trigger.

I see this post is a bit belated, but I was wondering why you made the play error.

I should have made top 8, but didn't.  I was 2-1 and in game 3 of round 4, and I messed up a Bazaar activation that ended up losing me the game.  If I would have done it right, I would have won the game and I could have drawn in to the top 8. 

If you don't mind, what was your mistake?

I was playing against a Tendrils player.  My board was something like 2 Welder, 2 Lodestone, Trinisphere, Crucible, and a bunch of mana.  He had 2 Bitterblossoms and a like 6 lands.  We are both at about 8 life, and have about 5 minutes left in the round, so I am playing fast and stupid.  I am keeping his Faeries in check with my 2 Lodestone while he is hemorrhaging 2 life/turn to the BB and I am pinging him with B-Ring.  He is able to cast Timetwister, taking away my graveyard and my B-Ring recurrsion.  He passes the turn, and on my turn I Bazaar in my mainphase (why?), but do NOT discard the Sphere of Resistance that I have in hand, instead discarding 3 lands (why?).  On his turn he Repeals my Trinisphere, then drops some artifact mana through the Lodestones and Tendrils me for 8 with just enough mana.  If I would have pitched the Resistor, I could have welded the Trinisphere for the Resistor, and he couldn't have won.

Maybe he thought 2 Lodestone Golems, a Trinisphere, and only 5 minutes in the round was strong enough? 

[BC]

In hindsight, "a bunch of mana" was not quite accurate.  Here is a picture of the board position on that turn:

I could be wrong, but I think this is a fresh TimeTwister hand.

When it was my turn after the Timetwister, I had Tolarian Academy (with 4 artifacts in play), Ancient Tomb, Mountain, and B-Ring.  I couldn't use Tomb or B-Ring for mana because my life total was the most important factor in the game.  So I essentially had 5 mana to work with.  I tapped Tolarian and played a Ruby.  I should have tapped Mountain and Ruby for the Sphere, but I thought it was redundant with Trinisphere and 2 Golems.  In hindsight I obviously should have either played the Sphere or pitched it, but as I said before I was playing fast and bad because I didn't want to go to time.

[Twaun007]

Is it me or is that Crucible + Strip an illusion?

The most important thing is that you learned from this mistake and I'm willing to bet 5 bones that you never make it again.