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Author Topic: Prototype Portal  (Read 10793 times)
Delha
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« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2010, 11:54:11 am »

With Memnite, its a 4 mana Bitterblossom that doesn't cost life, can be cast off Workshop/colorless mana, provides perms to sac to smokestack and tap to tangle wire, provides more beats under sphere affects,  Pumps up Master of Etherium, gets pumped by Master of Etherium, can be made at ANY time  not just during upkeep, gets around chalice for 0, 1, or 2,  and can be sacked to tinker/welder every turn. If they made an artifact that simply was 4 cc, and said "tap: put a 1/1 artifact token into play", it would be considered good by a lot of players I would believe.

Don't laugh at the Portal to Memnite Ville combo.  It will decimate you.
Half the benefits you listed for Portal are also gained by Bitterblossom. You also conveniently ignored that Portal + Memnite eats 8 slots, is -1 CA when cast, dies to Null Rod, and is vulnerable to the loads of artifact only hate the decks are running (Hurkyll's, Chewer, RNR, to name the first three that come to mind). Also, I should point out that you will very very rarely get Portal active on T1. You know your odds of a T1 Golem? Cut those in half, and you're still not low enough.
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nineisnoone
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« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2010, 06:50:14 pm »

This card is definitely interesting, but I'm still on the fence about it.  The question is, when do you cast it?

Am I going to play this over a Sphere effect?  No.  Not unless I have 6 mana.  How often do I have 6 mana turn 1?

Am I going to play this over Lodestone?  No.  Not unless I have 8 mana.  8 mana to cast the first Lodestone is too much, although I admit multiple Lodestones is superb.

Am I going to play this over a Tangle Wire?  No.  Not unless I have 7 mana.

If I have that much mana, or if not, can afford to NOT cast a lockpiece now and cast this instead strikes me as a tad bit 'win more'.

4 mana to put a mox out now and every turn for free thereafter?  A tad underwhelming though not without merit. 

I wouldn't compare this to Smokestack at all.  Taking away permanents from the opponent is not the same as me having more of them.  My opponent has a 7/11 and I have more moxen...who wins?

So, since this card is not better than casting a lockpiece unless you have mana for BOTH, RIGHT NOW, when do you cast it??  Later on I suppose, and I wonder when you topdeck this badboy how good it would be if you have no relevent artifacts in hand because you had to cast them to disrupt your opponent.  Or just have lands in hand.

I find this card to be very similar to Sculpting Steel in that it complements an artifact you already have either in play or in hand.   Steel isn't affected by Null Rod, can copy opponents artifacts, but can't keep cranking out artifacts.

This card does open doors to several other non-Null Rod strategies for MUD.  I am willing to bet Metalworker (and consequently Null Rod) will be seeing a lot more play.  First turn Metalworker might become a 'must-counter' since you don't know if your opponent has Staff or Prototype Portal and enough mana to activate it.  I wonder if any other cheap artifacts will be coming out that would be better to copy.  Let's wait and see before we come to any conclusions about this card.

I've always felt that first-turn Metalworker was already a must-counter, as if they don't have anything to power out afterwards, you probably win anyways because their best card was a Metalworker that can't do anything broken. 

Similarly, I think of this card as also being a must counter.  It's going to do something broke, or their hand sucks and you are going to win anyways.  Sure, there is the possibility of baiting, but you have to bite since if you don't you can't counter their next spell.

Whether or not it is the correct play is a different issue in my opinion.  Strong plays are always strong, even if they are not correct.  Weak plays can be correct plays, but that doesn't make them strong.  A better card to play in a given situation might be Bitterblossom, but that doesn't make it a strong play. 

This is just a flat-out strong card.  Whether or not it's a weak play is irrelevant.  If it's better to cast the Sphere, then cast the Sphere.  It's really no different than any other card like that.  But it's better to back up that weaker play (but let's say it's correct due to mana constraints) with a strong card rather than a weaker one.  It's not so narrow of a play that it's strength as a card would be negated.

That said, will it be played?  Who knows.  There seems to be a lot of good stuff coming in for Shop decks and I'd imagine we're going to see a lot of variations for awhile before something becomes standardized.
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limitedwhole
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« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2010, 08:30:20 pm »

I don't know allot about this card in shop as i dont play shop and haven't tested this card, but my guess is that you cant play this card without thran turbine.  And if your going to play thran turbine, why not play pyhrexian processor?  Opponent cracks fetch land and has no burn spells.  Put a 19/19 non-artifact in play. 
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Delha
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« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2010, 11:18:15 am »

I don't know allot about this card in shop as i dont play shop and haven't tested this card, but my guess is that you cant play this card without thran turbine.
By what logic did you come to that conclusion?
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Much like humanity itself.
limitedwhole
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« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2010, 06:50:12 pm »

I am assuming that if you are taking a turn somewhere to play Portal or Processor, you want to tap whatever mana you have to make multiple disruptive plays.  Since Workshop cant be used to power up these cards, it seemed reasonable to assume you were going to need some sort of steady accelerant to power the portal and/or processer.  Workshop doesn't use cards that require an activation cost for a reason.  The more recent versions that run ancient tomb and city of traitors are a little better at powering up activation costs, but cant really do so and make disruptive pays in the same turn.  Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe you will have enough accelerants to power activation costs without turbine.
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Delha
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« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2010, 07:11:37 pm »

I am assuming that if you are taking a turn somewhere to play Portal or Processor, you want to tap whatever mana you have to make multiple disruptive plays.  Since Workshop cant be used to power up these cards, it seemed reasonable to assume you were going to need some sort of steady accelerant to power the portal and/or processer.  Workshop doesn't use cards that require an activation cost for a reason.  The more recent versions that run ancient tomb and city of traitors are a little better at powering up activation costs, but cant really do so and make disruptive pays in the same turn.  Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe you will have enough accelerants to power activation costs without turbine.
The first part I get. My main point was that Turbine is generally considered night useless in terms of accelerants. Even in a deck with Portals, it's pretty much useless unless you've got one on the table. Seems too narrow.
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself.
BruiZar
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« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2010, 07:15:51 pm »

All you need is  {2} mana for portal. Tomb does it well but wasteland + Mox do it too. The most this thing will ever cost you to activate is  {3} for Tangle Wire. If its a huge concern, there´s always urborg to save you some damage and make workshop useful
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limitedwhole
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« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2010, 10:52:01 pm »

I am assuming you are going to lead with sphere/thorns, so if you play portal you have to have another copy of thorns, sphere in hand to use portal with those cards, and if you had another copy, you would play both if you could (not a stax player, but I am assuming.)  So the best card to portal would be tangle wire?  But this costs 3 not 2.  Golems?  Costs 4.  I think if you are going to use portal you have to start from scratch in your deck deisgn and seriously consider Thran turbine and Phyrexian Portal.  Will this suck...maybe.  I make no claims that it would be good, just that as soon as you start adding activation costs, you want to add more, and if you want to add more you want turbines.  Maybe Mana Vault/Key might be better, but the point is you need more mana than you normally would to run this card.  Stax is tuned to get the right amount of mana.  Portal says you need more.  Maybe a portal deck with the new anvil, portal, processor, and turbine would work.  What I like about turbine is that it doesn't suck like voltaic key does.  

Edit: Another option would be to try Candelabra of Tawnos.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 11:11:26 pm by limitedwhole » Logged

"Scrying isn't a "bad" card but it's not that good either."-Marske
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