Cavern of Souls

[Wagner]

This is only 22$ so far, I expect this to go way up. It's really a card all formats will want, EDH and casual will LOVE this.

Also seems good in Vintage, Lecacy and potentially modern and standard.

[AmbivalentDuck]

This is only 22$ so far, I expect this to go way up. It's really a card all formats will want, EDH and casual will LOVE this.

Compare with Snapcaster Mage.  What's that at, $25 these days?  A rare can only climb so high because they're relatively common now that there's a mythic rarity.  If we find out that the land was misspoiled as rare and is actually mythic...well, then I'd snap up every copy I could find at the current price.

[Meddling Mike]

If we find out that the land was misspoiled as rare and is actually mythic...well, then I'd snap up every copy I could find at the current price.

Looks like a rare given the gold symbol in the picture. Seems pretty definitive.

[nedleeds]

Has anyone seen the price of Mutavault lately? This is going to be difficult to acquire (Legacy Merfolk).

Yeah I saw that. It's been going up and up. The full art foil is more than a Mox Sapphire. Seems insane. As for Awesome Land ... meet an old friend of mine:

[Blue Lotus]

That's an idea I can get behind. Seems kind of slow though, you need void + land + creature. What if you don't draw the land and just lock yourself out? How is that better than void + manlands, which no one has gotten to work.

[nedleeds]

That's an idea I can get behind. Seems kind of slow though, you need void + land + creature. What if you don't draw the land and just lock yourself out? How is that better than void + manlands, which no one has gotten to work.

There's the obvious task of pushing the Nether Void out as soon as possible. Manlands are still a nice tag along strategy but one of the issues in Nether Void decks (at least post 1997) is getting a threat out first then dropping the void. The speed of vintage just makes it so you need to do it in the other order. Void first, then threat. The manlands unfortunately die to 2 free cards under the void, Strip Mine and Wasteland.

My last success with Nether Void is pre Gush (mostly because Sinkhole was still a valid spell) but it's still one of my favorite cards ever, and is the pinnacle of disruption. I think maybe you'd look at some hand disruption, rituals and then choose creatures that create as fast a clock as possible.

I think that would be

- Tarmogoyf (paired with discard and powering out the Void with a ritual he can often be large)
- Negator (bad with men around)
- Some of the synergistic hate bears, Thalia is the obvious one since she stacks with Nether Void and is a pain herself

[AmbivalentDuck]

Just a reminder that "uncounterable" only creates virtual card advantage so long as you don't try running out something...counterable.

Cavern is particularly at home in gobs (particularly with Instigators) and guli.dec because they have no need to run out counterable spells in order to win.  This creates something like 12-15 dead slots in the average "blue" build.

[gkraigher]

This card is not as good as you all think it is.   Outside of a goblin lackey and lodestone golem (and this land is terrible in mud), who cares if your creatures get countered.  So you get to protect your quasi pridemage from getting countered, but your goyf is still going to.  This card really just doesn't do much.  It looks like a really bad fetch land to me.  

It will probably be played, but this card will never go higher than $22. Its worth a lot more like $7, depending on what happens in standard.  The card is borderline worthless in modern and marginal in legacy.  The excitement will fade very fast when you realize you are playing with a tendo, ice bridge.  

It is very effective in tribal decks.  You do have that argument.  

[goober]

Dark Confidant, Trinket Mage, Auriok Salvagers are much more relevant than Pridemange/Goyf.  Snapcaster on a Flusterstorm is basically an uncounterable counterspell.  All of those are done with the same tribe, but I wouldn't really call Bomberman or Big Blue "tribal" even though they mainly use Humans.

[credmond]

Uncounterable is really good. It reduces the number of relevant actions your opponent can take. However, to be able to play this card effectively you need either creatures that are "must counters" (like bomberman) or to simply have a high density of creatures in your deck (like goblins or GW beats). In decks that don't satisfy this criterion, the benefits are probably not worth the risks (namely wasteland).

[AmbivalentDuck]

Uncounterable is really good. It reduces the number of relevant actions your opponent can take. However, to be able to play this card effectively you need either creatures that are "must counters" (like bomberman) or to simply have a high density of creatures in your deck (like goblins or GW beats). In decks that don't satisfy this criterion, the benefits are probably not worth the risks (namely wasteland).

~70% of the value of putting this in a Gobs build would be making Earwig Squad uncounterable.  In the days before Mental Misstep, I was happy to go fishing for FoW with Lackey.

[Guli]

Uncounterable is really good. It reduces the number of relevant actions your opponent can take. However, to be able to play this card effectively you need either creatures that are "must counters" (like bomberman) or to simply have a high density of creatures in your deck (like goblins or GW beats). In decks that don't satisfy this criterion, the benefits are probably not worth the risks (namely wasteland).

~70% of the value of putting this in a Gobs build would be making Earwig Squad uncounterable.  In the days before Mental Misstep, I was happy to go fishing for FoW with Lackey.

I played versus your unique Gob deck. If that Lackey hits you just make sandwich of the opponent... This means they will HAVE to play removal or cast a blocker.

[Guli]

Would you guys agree that in a Cavern of Souls build, Null Rod might be a bit more comfortable to cast? Sometimes you need to get that basic forest and with Cavern of Souls Stony seems harder to cast. Just a little nuance though...

[Meddling Mike]

Would you guys agree that in a Cavern of Souls build, Null Rod might be a bit more comfortable to cast? Sometimes you need to get that basic forest and with Cavern of Souls Stony seems harder to cast. Just a little nuance though...

Isn't Null Rod always easier to cast? Even in a mono-white deck Null Rod would probably be easier to cast because you might be playing it into a Lodestone Golem.

[nedleeds]

Isn't Null Rod always easier to cast? Even in a mono-white deck Null Rod would probably be easier to cast because you might be playing it into a Lodestone Golem.

Yes. One could argue it's a bit more vulnerable to removal once on the board though. But honestly why in the world are you bothering with Null Rod if you are playing Cavern of Souls. You should just play creature based artifact hate ...  name Wizards. Poop out a Pridemage.

Wizards, Humans, Goblins, Elementals all stand out as pretty good choices.

[serracollector]

Human's is really good with this, and the new card mass appeal.  im testing a URB shell with snaps, bobs, grim lavamancers, and the tandem's.  Casting a mass appeal to draw 3-5 cards is not uncommon at all in testing.