- Slaughter Games

[serracollector]

Yes expensive, but alas an interesting uncounterable effect?  Lots of 4 of's being used now a days.

[Meddling Mike]

Interesting card, but I don't think it does enough. Against Dredge what do you name? Bridge From Below? You probably won't have enough time to actually cast it and if you do it still won't win you the game. Against Shops, Lodestone Golem? Again, they'll probably play one before you can cast this and it still won't just win you the game. Against blue, I don't even know, but it won't just win you the game unless they went super light on win conditions. I can keep going, but I think you get the idea. Vintage is tough at 4 mana. At 4 mana it needs to at least be a big problem, it doesn't seem like this card ever is. I can't see it being much more effective than something like Surgical Extraction.

[evouga]

The problem with Lobotomy effects is that except under unusual circumstances (you can reliably nail cards in their hand, or take out their only win condition) it effectively weakens your opponent's future draws slightly without doing anything to improve the current board state. Four mana is just too much when you could be proactively disrupting your opponent or advancing your own strategy instead.

If they ever print an Earwig-esque variant that lets you strip out multiple restricted cards (e.g name four cards, search and exile up to one of each), *that* would be interesting.

[shrewarmies]

I saw slaughter and the first thing I though of was smurfs, anyone up for an alter

[gkraigher]

This thing is overcost by 2.

[Saya]

I feel this card has identity.For some storm decks castintg slaughter games is equal to victory.The problem of this cad is decreasing such decks - yeah,storms

[TheWhiteDragon]

This thing is overcost by 2.

I agree.  At sorcery speed, this needed to cost just BR.

[brokenbacon]

I saw slaughter and the first thing I though of was smurfs, anyone up for an alter

HAHA

[gkraigher]

I want to retract my statements about this card, it is not overcost by 2.  This card is great.  It wins games vs decks in Vintage, Legacy, and Modern and is the best of breed because it cannot be countered.  Might be expensive, yes, but will definitely see play in ever deck with swamps and mountains.  

In hindsight, my opinion was assuming Burning Wish was restricted.  Nonetheless, I was wrong.

[Blue Lotus]

no you were right. this is garbage

[TheWhiteDragon]

Not sure this is really all that bad.  Maindeck, it seems horrible, but as sideboard tech vs combo decks, it's not that bad.  If I can get 2BR by turn 1-3 and name tendrils, gush, jace, oath, hexmage - it's done some serious damage to my opponent's plan.  If I know they are on that plan for g 2/3, I'll never whiff. I just have to hope it's not too late or I can lead with a duress to stop the first turn oath, etc.  Obviously only good for dedicated RB decks, but not really too bad in the right build for a sb slot.  Maybe too costly, but maybe okay.

[gkraigher]

All Burning Wish Decks will have to run this in the sideboard vs. the Mirror.  The only card this will ever name is Burning Wish or Griselbrand, and that makes it playable.  

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I'm pretty sure if burning wish decks playing the mirror are finding and casting burning wish, they're going to opt for the bomb/kill.
When you killed the other player, you don't need to worry about their toa or the 7/7. Weaker players might try it as a crutch, but that doesn't make it right.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I'm pretty sure if burning wish decks playing the mirror are finding and casting burning wish, they're going to opt for the bomb/kill.
When you killed the other player, you don't need to worry about their toa or the 7/7. Weaker players might try it as a crutch, but that doesn't make it right.

I think burning wishing for this is a bad move in the mirror if you can go off, but if all you can do is wish for this and aren't going storm apeshit beforehand, it's okay.

I was thinking more of BR weenie decks, dark times w/red, keeperish decks, etc.  Then you COULD run one main, but much better would be to run a few sb and just rip out oath, grisel, toa, etc after you've seen your opponent's deck g1.  Maybe not the best, but could be decent.

[vaughnbros]

I'm pretty sure if burning wish decks playing the mirror are finding and casting burning wish, they're going to opt for the bomb/kill.
When you killed the other player, you don't need to worry about their toa or the 7/7. Weaker players might try it as a crutch, but that doesn't make it right.

I think burning wishing for this is a bad move in the mirror if you can go off, but if all you can do is wish for this and aren't going storm apeshit beforehand, it's okay.

I was thinking more of BR weenie decks, dark times w/red, keeperish decks, etc.  Then you COULD run one main, but much better would be to run a few sb and just rip out oath, grisel, toa, etc after you've seen your opponent's deck g1.  Maybe not the best, but could be decent.

4 mana in a black red deck is a lot unless your playing rituals and I don't think rituals are optimal.  Just killing burning wish still isn't even close to ending the game.  Most decks should have main deck alternatives like Jace, creatures, or a way of cheating griselbrand in.  There are much better ways to be expending 4 mana in almost every deck.

[gkraigher]

 

I'm pretty sure if burning wish decks playing the mirror are finding and casting burning wish, they're going to opt for the bomb/kill.
When you killed the other player, you don't need to worry about their toa or the 7/7. Weaker players might try it as a crutch, but that doesn't make it right.

   

Burning Wish for Slaughter Games (for Burning Wish) only costs 6 mana to give a death blow to your opponent.  If you resolve this, you just regroup and win later.  Its a cost effective way of beating two decks in the field with 1 sideboard spot.  I don't see how that is bad.  

Going for the win is optimal, for sure.  But this is also effective.  Think of it the same way burning wish decks run vandalblast from the board. 

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

It's not nessisarily even a death blow. Many long lists run an easily accessible 7/7 or even maindeck toa. It's more of a "cast this and hope they don't kill you anyways.
Assuming the other easily beatable deck is oath, you'd be surprised at ways it kills you with out the 7/7. I've seen a large amount of them playing mixes of toa, emrakul, vault key (which is basicly just the other three non 7/7 wins, I'll give you that), and jace. Even bsc out of the sb. Saying its an effective way of beating them may be a little optimistic, especially against long. I've been testing meddling mage on b-wish lately and it's not the huge blow out people feel it is. Even against non oath variants long pilots have been killing me more often than not without removing it. I'd personally say my testing shows its basicly just a waste of a sb slot for an experienced player. And the sb space seems to be at a premium.
Also, putting it in the wish board can completely nullify the uncounterable aspect of the spell making the card basicly read: 3rrb, maybe win the game, maybe lose anyways. I have a hard time believing this is playable in vintage.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I'm pretty sure if burning wish decks playing the mirror are finding and casting burning wish, they're going to opt for the bomb/kill.
When you killed the other player, you don't need to worry about their toa or the 7/7. Weaker players might try it as a crutch, but that doesn't make it right.

I think burning wishing for this is a bad move in the mirror if you can go off, but if all you can do is wish for this and aren't going storm apeshit beforehand, it's okay.

I was thinking more of BR weenie decks, dark times w/red, keeperish decks, etc.  Then you COULD run one main, but much better would be to run a few sb and just rip out oath, grisel, toa, etc after you've seen your opponent's deck g1.  Maybe not the best, but could be decent.

4 mana in a black red deck is a lot unless your playing rituals and I don't think rituals are optimal.  Just killing burning wish still isn't even close to ending the game.  Most decks should have main deck alternatives like Jace, creatures, or a way of cheating griselbrand in.  There are much better ways to be expending 4 mana in almost every deck.

I don't think 4 mana is necessarily a lot when you have moxen or SSG or rituals.  A turn 1 land, sol ring, turn 2 land, slaughter games isn't terrible.  Lotus, mana crypt, other accelerators all help.  If you're just dropping land for 4 turns and playing this, it's slow, but no RB deck goes without some sort of acceleration.  Also, most BR decks can't support jace and critters are of little consequence against oath/ToA.  Other options for BR to fight oath include EE which costs BR2 in one turn or over 2 turns while being counterable and vulnerable, and other artifacts.  Thorn of amethyst has been best vs ToA, but not sure this can't be as good vs combos.  By BR deck, I mean a BR deck, not a blue deck that runs sea and volcanic for splash hate.

[gkraigher]

4 mana is easy to get to if your opponent isn't playing MUD or Dredge, and you won't be using this card vs. them.

A turn 1 land, sol ring, turn 2 land, slaughter games isn't terrible

I completely agree with this line of play vs. Oath and Burning Wish.  It should be devastating.  You probably won't be doing this game 1, unless you know your opponents deck.  In games 2 and 3, it seems strong.  Especially game 2, and more so if you won game 1.  If Oath beats you game 1, then you have enough information to know if this is a good play or not.  

You can also get enough mana acceleration to take out bridge from below before they abuse it.  It can happen on turn 1 with Ritual, Lotus, Wish, Mox, Land.  I doubt this is ever the right line of play, but its still there.

[TheWhiteDragon]

4 mana is easy to get to if your opponent isn't playing MUD or Dredge, and you won't be using this card vs. them.

A turn 1 land, sol ring, turn 2 land, slaughter games isn't terrible

I completely agree with this line of play vs. Oath and Burning Wish.  It should be devastating.  You probably won't be doing this game 1, unless you know your opponents deck.  In games 2 and 3, it seems strong.  Especially game 2, and more so if you won game 1.  If Oath beats you game 1, then you have enough information to know if this is a good play or not.  

You can also get enough mana acceleration to take out bridge from below before they abuse it.  It can happen on turn 1 with Ritual, Lotus, Wish, Mox, Land.  I doubt this is ever the right line of play, but its still there.

Yeah, you hit the right word - devastating.  It's not an autowin, but should buy you significant time to advance your own gameplan.  This is a solid tactic vs oath, wish, and storm ToA.  I don't see it as good vs much else and too slow vs dredge, but nice sb usefulness vs more narrow combos.  Yes, oath can still win around not having oath, but a singleton show and tell, hardcasting a monster, or ramping jace vs critters is exceptionally harder than just plopping out a 1G win.  This could be useful for RB beats.