Guttergush

[Tezzatron]

Been playing around with Guttersnipe as a win condition in a gush storm list.

I'm sure the primary concern people will have with this list is the vulnerability to guttersnipe. I agree in a creature (and thus removal) heavy meta, you probably just want a stock tendrils list, but as people are straying from BSC and oath and jace control decks start dominating, I think this could be a pretty good meta call.

To protect Guttersnipe, Gitaxian probes and duresses allow you interact with removal spells, as does the counter suite.

I like snipe to tendrils because he beats down, answers jace, is insane in multiples and allows you to play the long game over many turns, something tendril decks could not do before.

My list:

4 Guttersnipe
2 lotus cobra
1 Snapcaster mage
4 fow
1 fastbond
3 preordain
ponder
Brainstorm
ancestral
Time walk
3 gitaxian probe
4 gush
Vamp
Demonic
Yawg win
Wheel of fortune
Lava dart
Thirst
Gifts
Noxious
Demonic consultation
2 duress
1 spell pierce
Island
Mox Ruby
Mox Jet
Mox Saphire
Mox Emerald
Black Lotus
Lotus Petal
Sol ring
mana Crypt
2 sea
2 trop
2 volcanic
4 misty rainforest
2 scalding tarn

SB
3 nature's claim
3 ancient grudge
1 trygon predator
1 ignot chewer
1 mountain
1 forest
1 thrun
4 leyline of the void

[mmcgeach]

I've been playing a lot with Guttersnipe, too.

But I want Cavern of Souls in there for the blue matchup.  I can't tell you the number of times some gush, landstill, or bomberman player has complained about the uncounterability of Guttersnipe off the Cavern.  They get this dumb look on their face and say "Well I can't do any thing about that, so of course it resolves," their tone of voice saying "i do have the drain, tho."

Of course, the problem with Cavern is that it doesn't play well with Gush, and it strains the mana base for other colored spells, so I've tried a lot of two-color builds, and one or two three-color.  Then, of course, it's tempting to play with other goblins... so I've tried electromancer in there in the lotus cobra slot, and although it works pretty well, people tell me electromancer is terrible.

Anyway, before we get into a lot of other guttersnipe builds, have you tried Cavern of Souls in your gush list?  My meta is like 60-70% blue, so I think I'd have to play more counters or duresses if I wasn't running Cavern.

Also, how is your shops matchup?  I've found mine is godaweful with pretty much any build I've tried. Although, perhaps that's to be expected since it's a basically a storm deck with a ton of cantrips.  And paying 4 mana for preordain is less good; and the deck pretty much dies to chalice @ 1.

I do think guttersnipe is essentially a step up in storm technology.  I agree with you there.

[Tezzatron]

Thanks for the reply!

I see what you are saying about Cavern of Souls. I think it is pretty clear that Cavern and Gushbond will not work together. Thus I could perhaps see a UBR storm deck that makes use of Cavern, is that what you came up with as well? Would you mind posting your list?

I am absolutely willing to test it, but I'm worried that losing the explosiveness of the gushbond engine causes the deck to lose a lot. Often times you can play a guttersnipe and win that or the next turn pretty easily.

My stax matchup, as you said, is not the best, but it is not THAT bad with the 10 dedicated slots. Against stax my boarding plan looks like this:

+ 3 claim
+3 grudge
+1 trygon
+1 mountain
+1 forest
+1 ingot chewer
+1 thrun

-3 probe
-3 preordain
-1 yawgwill
-1 lava dart
-1 wheel of fortune
-1 guttersnipe

[serracollector]

I been testing a Version of Guttersnipe using Deathrite Shaman.  Really helps with color stability, getting mana under spheres, and if you have both sniper and Dr Shaman on the board, its more or less an uncounterable clock, and a fast one at that.  Not much an opponent can do when you have any instant/sorcery in hand, and a snipe/dr shaman on board, and they have single digit life. Also Dr Shaman can help to power out a turn 2 sniper alot more often.

[mmcgeach]

Sure.  Here's the red-blue list I've got that features Electromancers.

4 Guttersnipe
4 Electromancer
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
4 Arcane Denial
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Fact or Fiction
2 Frantic Search
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Haze of Rage
1 Empty the Warrens

4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarian Academy

I know Electromancer isn't considered good, but it's pretty strong here.  Some things I've noticed:

1) its a 2/2 beater for 2.  People don't care about it, generally, so they just let it sit there.  Having that bear is frequently strong against blue decks. Especially since you're combining it with Guttersnipe pressure.
2) Frantic Search + Electromancer is an engine.  You can combine this with draw-7's, but I think Fact or Fiction is probably just better.  If you up the Frantic Search + Draw spell count, you can get it to look like a combo deck.
3) Arcane Denial becomes Ancestral Recall with Electromancer in play.
4) Haze of Rage is hilarious with 2 Electromancers and a Guttersnipe in play.

Also Arcane Denial isn't commonly played.  I started playing it there cause I don't think I'll have 2 blue for Drain.  But, consider that someone on this board once asked "What deck wants to combine their counter and draw packages?"  The answer is assuredly Guttersnipe.  You basically only want to counter a few spells your opponents play : anything that kills a guttersnipe, or anything that wins for them outright (tinker, yawgwill, etc).  The rest of the time you want to cruise through your deck as fast as possible while putting as many spells on the stack as you can.  Arcane Denial does this.  If you target your own spell, you draw THREE CARDS. There's all kinds of great plays:

1) opponent casts Ancestral Recall.  You mental misstep.  They misstep back.  You Arcane Denial your own Misstep.  You've each spent 2 cards to draw 3 cards, and you're the one doing 2 damage per spell cast.  Win!
2) you play electromancer off Cavern of Souls.  You Arcane Denial your electromancer.  You get a 2/2 bear, and you draw 3 cards.
3) your opponent plays Tinker.  You force. They force back.  You Arcane denial their Tinker.  Cause really, you can't let that resolve. They draw 2 cards you don't care about, and you draw another cantrip/counter/draw spell.
4) you end step Fact or Fiction.  They force. You Arcane Denial your FoF.  Them -2 cards.  You +1 cards, plus two put on the stack for guttersnipe damage.

This build is focused around a blue meta.  You might want to add fire//ice or lightning bolt for more general meta's.  And you can drop the electromancer/frantic search/fact or fiction/haze of rage package if you think it's terrible.  That gives you room to add maybe: 2 shattering spree, 2 repeal, 1 lightning bolt, 1 fire//ice, 1 empty the warrens.  Or something.  I'd probably keep 1 frantic search and 1 fact or fiction in there. I hadn't played with Fact or Fiction recently.  But dang, is it ever strong.  If that resolves, you are generally way ahead.

The strategy is to churn through the deck and find a guttersnipe.  Or put two electromancers in play and then storm out with Empty or Haze.  A problem is not finding a guttersnipe.  In this case, you'll wish you were splashing black for vamp and demonic.  :/

I've tried Wheel, and Timetwister, and Mind's Desire, but I decided they were kind of clunky.  I still sort of miss a wheel effect.  But I never really got mind's desire working.  I almost wonder if Burning Wish would work here... But i think other than the three I mentioned, the targets are poor. 

Repeal is pretty strong in this list, but I had to cut it.

A side board might be:

2 mountain
2 lightning bolt
4 shattering spree
3 grafdigger's cage
1 tormod's crypt
1 relic of progenitus
2 REB

The shops matchup is pretty terrible.  Although sometimes Electromancer cancels out one of their spheres.