TheManaDrain.com
September 25, 2025, 03:05:51 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: [Free Article] GenCon Review  (Read 1334 times)
GrandpaBelcher
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1421


1000% Serious


View Profile WWW
« on: August 28, 2013, 09:04:32 am »

http://legitmtg.com/competitive/the-vintage-advantage-gencon-review/

I look at three decks from GenCon that might be approachable by newer Vintage players and talk about the GenCon metagame and what it might indicate for Champs.
Logged

Cast Force of Love and help support the Serious Vintage podcast and streaming!
https://teespring.com/seriousvintage
Guli
Basic User
**
Posts: 1763


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2013, 09:54:16 am »

Thanks, some comments:

You can not cut power from the Human list and expect same results. I have tried this in the development of the deck. The 4 moxes are minimum to be able to compete on the long run. In some games it will matter less, but you will need the power to increase win percentage with the deck in the long run (statistics). And I would advise the full 5 mox package if you own the cards or are allowed to use proxy. Black Lotus is not a must, but if you happen to own one, use it!

Also, Sting is important against Oath/Show&Tell. You can use it as a bounce effect (like Karakas) but on every creature not just legendary. With Thalia around, the Oath player will have difficulty to combo out and is hoping to get a Griselbrand in so it can control the board. Sting stops just that! Bounce and proceed with attack!

But it is a great deck to start your magic career in Vintage because it has a lot surprise value and the cards you are investing in are either cheap but effective (ingot, oath, mayor, ...) or value cards (Bobs, Wastelands, Noble, Duals, Caverns, ...). And even when your opponent knows you are on humans, chances are you got a turn 1 Thalia followed by Wastelands which is why this deck is a Vintage competitor.

And I also partly disagree on your comment that this deck is straightforward. Sometimes it does play itself out, but most of the times you need to make a lot of choices (Cavern, Tutoring, what to waste, when to pass for transform, what to decay, ...)

I salute you Steven Stierman, great job!! Can you send me a PM if you are reading this? I have some questions for you.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 02:27:04 pm by Guli » Logged

President Skroob
Basic User
**
Posts: 284


Yarr.


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2013, 04:06:29 pm »

I got rolled over by Adrian Becker on Friday. I felt like he had rock solid hands against me, and that it would have been a more even match if he hadn't had fantastic aggro and lock components going side by side.

From his performance, though, getting top eight both days, it seems like he was giving people the business all day without pause. Can't argue with that kind of consistency. Similar with Steven Stierman's deck. There's been a lot of discussion on his choices, but that guy's match win percentage was absolutely insane.

Logged

I am the patron saint of Magic mediocrity.
https://twitter.com/ThallidTosser
Twaun007
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1527


For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi.

Twaun007
View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2013, 04:09:25 pm »

You can not cut power from the Human list and expect same results. I have tried this in the development of the deck. The 4 moxes are minimum to be able to compete on the long run. In some games it will matter less, but you will need the power to increase win percentage with the deck in the long run (statistics). And I would advise the full 5 mox package if you own the cards or are allowed to use proxy. Black Lotus is not a must, but if you happen to own one, use it!

Interesting statistics... because I have found the opposite to be true when playing creature heavy decks. I've found that once you meet the natural curve out of the deck(usually around a cc of two) all the extra moxen you rip hinder the decks ability to produce threats since the moxen don't immediately impact your opponents board. I comprehend the wanted acceleration on turn one, but wonder if the blank draw of topdecking a mox in the mid-game is worth it? I mean your already slower that pretty much every fully powered blue deck so why would you want to increase your blank draws in the late-game?  


And I also partly disagree on your comment that this deck is straightforward. Sometimes it does play itself out, but most of the times you need to make a lot of choices (Cavern, Tutoring, what to waste, when to pass for transform, what to decay, ...)

It is pretty straightforward. You can say the same the same thing for Dredge being straightforward, but having to know when to Bazaar, Dredge, cast Ingot Chewer, etc...

Just some thoughts.

EDIT: Sick article Nat! I like how you've structured your articles in an introductory manner. It makes a great starting point for people getting started in the format.
 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 04:36:14 pm by Twaun007 » Logged

This... Right here... Is my new Lambo...

Carpe Librum

You can't ask a bird not to fly!
You can't ask a fish not to swim!
You can't ask a Chinese guy not to turn back into a tiger at midnight!
It's who I am.

Cleveland
Guli
Basic User
**
Posts: 1763


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2013, 05:25:04 pm »

You can not cut power from the Human list and expect same results. I have tried this in the development of the deck. The 4 moxes are minimum to be able to compete on the long run. In some games it will matter less, but you will need the power to increase win percentage with the deck in the long run (statistics). And I would advise the full 5 mox package if you own the cards or are allowed to use proxy. Black Lotus is not a must, but if you happen to own one, use it!

Interesting statistics... because I have found the opposite to be true when playing creature heavy decks. I've found that once you meet the natural curve out of the deck(usually around a cc of two) all the extra moxen you rip hinder the decks ability to produce threats since the moxen don't immediately impact your opponents board. I comprehend the wanted acceleration on turn one, but wonder if the blank draw of topdecking a mox in the mid-game is worth it? I mean your already slower that pretty much every fully powered blue deck so why would you want to increase your blank draws in the late-game?  


And I also partly disagree on your comment that this deck is straightforward. Sometimes it does play itself out, but most of the times you need to make a lot of choices (Cavern, Tutoring, what to waste, when to pass for transform, what to decay, ...)

It is pretty straightforward. You can say the same the same thing for Dredge being straightforward, but having to know when to Bazaar, Dredge, cast Ingot Chewer, etc...

Just some thoughts.

EDIT: Sick article Nat! I like how you've structured your articles in an introductory manner. It makes a great starting point for people getting started in the format.
 

Yes, you don't want to topdeck too many mana sources in the classical aggro decks loaded with bears. But humans isn't really fitting that profile anymore. It is a controling, tutoring, hating, beating deck. Sensei Top is in my list now and it is not going out anytime soon. Ooze is a great sink, Shaman also likes mana. Meanwhile yo do want to keep casting things. You have to be able to cast a demonic or vampiric (another card that is in my list and is not going out anytime soon), or the other instants through a Thalia. It is key to have a lot of mana around with 3cc Humans, Exava... And in the Workshop and Landstill match up, mana is of utmost importance. Moxes are very important in this deck, and chances or chance calculation etc are statistics in the long run. I am the one to talk to if you want the most data. I try to save most of the replays and I watch some of my games to recognize patterns/mistakes/etc. And sometimes, you hold out moxes in your hand to bust out when they least expect it. Moxes are great Smile

Logged

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.036 seconds with 19 queries.