Khans of Tarkir - Grim Haruspex

[serracollector]

I'm surprised no one brought this guy up, but would he not fit quite well into human decks?

[Meddling Mike]

So looking at this card. The morph is more or less a throw away ability right? I don't see a whole lot of situations where you're going to get somebody with this card because they thought it might be a Voidmage Prodigy or an Exalted Angel or something. Having it be uncounterable with a Cavern or saving the mana by not having to pay to flip this would seem preferable at a glance. So we're mostly just looking at the rest of the card.

So, good creature types for Cavern. The body is acceptable for the mana cost. The big question revolves around the ability and if that's good enough. It doesn't trigger off himself. It doesn't trigger off opponent's creatures and it doesn't trigger off tokens should we have some sort of token generating effect in the deck or our opponent gives us some with Forbidden Orchard or Beast Within or something like that.

I'm always skeptical of effects like this where it puts a lot of the decision making about what happens into the hands of our opponents. It deters opponents from killing my creatures, but it's not hard and fast. If my creature is that much of a problem they can just suck it up and let me draw my card or waste a removal spell on this guy before removing the problem creature. It also doesn't definitely draw us cards. If our opponent is that set on me not drawing cards they can just deal with my creatures being on the board. We can add stuff to the deck that would let us take more control over this aspect, but is that worth it?

I honestly don't know with 100% certainty how playable or unplayable this card is. It could be one of those opponent option cards like Standstill or Mystic Remora, which see some play, or it could be more like a Browbeat where it gets no play whatsoever. I'm leaning towards unplayable, but I'm not certain. It just seems too clunky and situational for Vintage.

[vaughnbros]

This ability is very interesting (although I hate the another creature clause) and can be exploited with sac effects, like cabal therapy, qasali pridgemage and braids, or just used to draw extra card advantage from normal combat.  The main reason this has potential though is this ability is attached to an incredibly efficient body 3 mana 3/2 with two relevant creature types.  The issue here is that this card probably just becomes a lighting rod for your opponents removal and if you don't have any way to exploit its ability you end up only getting a 1 for 1.

[MaximumCDawg]

This card is an upgrade on Fecundity and Dark Prophecy.  You lose the ability to draw off tokens and gain a reasonable body and the marginally-useful morph ability.

Since no one uses Fecundity or Prophecy, I forsee nothing in this card's future either.

[vaughnbros]

This card is an upgrade on Fecundity and Dark Prophecy.  You lose the ability to draw off tokens and gain a reasonable body and the marginally-useful morph ability.

Since no one uses Fecundity or Prophecy, I forsee nothing in this card's future either.

An enchantment is entirely different than a 3/2 creature... Fecundity and prophecy are about as close to this as Dark Tutelage is to Dark Confdiant.

[MaximumCDawg]

Drawing an extra card each turn without conditions is a better base ability than replacing creatures who somehow die rather than getting bounced or going to the farm, though.  My point is that putting legs on an unplayable enchantment probably isn't enough to make it playable.

EDIT: To elaborate on the Dark Confidant point, the fact that Confidant is a turn 1 play is a pretty major reason why he is relevant at all.  If he cost 2B, like his enchantment-cousin, then I doubt he would see much play at all.

[Protoaddict]

I mentioned this guy in another thread and got hammered on by haters. I think she has potential all the same. The obvious synergies with Cabal therapy, but maybe it goes even deeper into that strategy with somethign like bloodghast who can come back and die over and over again.

Maybe instead of humans some mono black suicide or dark times deck can utilize this? Works well with hexmage for sure.

[MaximumCDawg]

She?  Is it a female?  Hard to tell in the artwork.

Either way, Proto, I still don't understand how putting a 3/2 body on fecundity makes it Vintage-playable.  You can get creative with Recurring Nightmare engines, I guess, but I really don't see how it's worth investing 2B into a card that gives you more value out of other cards that you already blew for B earlier in the match.  If you're using this with Cabal Therapy, isn't this just like using Megrim?

[msg67183]

She?  Is it a female?  Hard to tell in the artwork.

Either way, Proto, I still don't understand how putting a 3/2 body on fecundity makes it Vintage-playable.  You can get creative with Recurring Nightmare engines, I guess, but I really don't see how it's worth investing 2B into a card that gives you more value out of other cards that you already blew for B earlier in the match.  If you're using this with Cabal Therapy, isn't this just like using Megrim?

How is Drawing a Card and making them lose 2 life anywhere near the same thing? I think this works well in humans to a similar to Xathrid Necromancer, providing advantage from opponents removal. The Morph effect can be used to great lengths in response to a removal or board wipe to mess with the opponent.

[Protoaddict]

I mean, if your playing a deck that tries to make the game fair (null rod or crucible and the like) then getting incremental value is very important, which is where she is huge. Also trades with Lodestone which seems to be a requirement now days.

How shes better than fecundity? Well different color so I'm not sure they are directly comparable, but can attack and block, can be played off caverns for unaccountability all come to mine as things that can make her better.

[MaximumCDawg]

I mean, if your playing a deck that tries to make the game fair (null rod or crucible and the like) then getting incremental value is very important, which is where she is huge. Also trades with Lodestone which seems to be a requirement now days.

How shes better than fecundity? Well different color so I'm not sure they are directly comparable, but can attack and block, can be played off caverns for unaccountability all come to mine as things that can make her better.

But isn't it a prerequisite that the cards you run both advance your fair game plan and also work to make the game fair?  I know Merfolk runs Lords, but outside of that, don't you focus on the Thalia's of the world instead of the Xantid Necromancers?

[TheWhiteDragon]

Let me introduce you to this card:

Spellskite
New Phyrexia
Card Type: Artifact Creature

Creature Type: Horror

Power/Toughness: 0/4

Casting Cost: 2

Card Text: u/p: Change a target of target spell or ability to Spellskite. (u/p can be paid with either U or 2 life.)

So, spellskite lets you choose to pay 2 to absorb all the removal coming your creatures' way, and survives bolts.  This grim guy will always take the first removal spell just like skite, except die to bolts.  It even costs 1 more.  If you are casting other creatures, odds are they are good enough to play, so they're good enough to keep in play.  Skite does that.  This new guy gives the opponent the option for killing the bigger threat first...even though they'll probably send grim meeting the reaper first (just like skite).

[evouga]

This card isn't so much an answer to spot removal, as it is insurance against getting your whole team blown out by stuff like Toxic Deluge.

[vaughnbros]

Let me introduce you to this card:

Spellskite

If you are trying to make this comparison you can stop right there.  This card is pretty much better in every facet of the game:l
1.  Spellskite costs additional mana or life.  So in reality Spellskite isn't cheaper.
2.  Spellskite is an artifact.  Hello ancient grudge!
3.  Spellskite has no relevant creature type.  Aka no synergy with cavern or mayor.
4.  Spellskite is a wall and has 0 power.  This is vs 3 power making it take out Jace in 1 hit and trade with a lodestone.
If you want to talk about just being a lighting rod/protecting for single target removal see Mother of Runes it's much better.  You are glossing over the 3/2 body for 3.  It's what gives the card potential, I don't think anyone hear is saying this is an automatically playable card.  Just that it should be on the radar for deck builders and innovators.

[ed0]

I haven't played Humans for quite a while, but is drawing a card really a relevant deterrent for the opponent not to destroy your most punishing creature?
I would imagine that your opponent would be rather happy with the outcome of getting rid of your Thalia/Mayor/Notion Thief/whatever for a measly card you at best can only leverage at your next turn, especially considering you wasted mana and a turn into the Grim Haruspex guy.
I would rather play Saffi Eriksdotter than this to keep my most powerful threats plowing along.

Saffi Eriksdotter
GW
Legendary Creature — Human Scout

Sacrifice Saffi Eriksdotter: When target creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield this turn, return that card to the battlefield.

2 / 2

[zeus-online]

.

[serracollector]

That is what I was actually thinking. Something along the lines of:

4 x Priest of Gix
3 x Trinket Mage
4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Dark Ritual
4 x Grim Haruspex
3 x Unearth
2-3 Skullclamp
3 x Snapcaster Mage
4 x Cavern of Souls
4 x Gitaxian Probe
4 x Cabal Therapy
XxX Broken Spells/Counters/Discard/Storm

Fun and broken. This essentially makes Clamp a reusable Ancestral+

[Guli]

The best way to protect your creatures is to let them die and play with enough value creatures like Huntmaster, Mayor of Avabruck, Trinket Mage, Stoneforge (she looks human enough) and so on. Dark Confidant is good too but is risky because of the delayed value.

[Protoaddict]

Why is this about protecting creatures? Isn't it about creating incremental value and setting up combos? In creature match ups this card allows you to alpha strike as your opponent cannot favorably trade creatures. In other matches it can combo with cabal therapy to give your deck some reach, as well as comboing with sac creatures (should any come into favor in humans.) Yes maybe it does not fit into any current shells but the potential is there.

[Guli]

Yea but there is nothing stopping wizards from printing a super field medic of some kind. Right now, the options are not that great when it comes to efficiency.