Tasigur, the Golden Fang

[enderfall]

Yea, another infinite combo that I won't be able to play on MTGO!

[vaughnbros]

That is correct. Then you cast time walk. then timetwister and repeat til you win with monastery mentor.

Or

Tasigur turns Ancestral Recall into your kill on the spot (no, they're not going to kill tasigur in the middle as they draw their deck. You have literal infinite counterspells). If you have Noxious Revival in your Gifts+Salvagers list, then Noxious Revival+Thought Scour is a kill. Noxious Revival+Swords+Walk is also a kill (kill all of their creatures, take a 100 extra turns, beat them down, reset your library to lands.

The ancestral kill sounds pretty sweet with a single mindbreak trap it doesn't even matter if they are playing uncounterable spells.

You can't really reset your library though as he always mills 2.

[gkraigher]

putting the top two cards is not an activation, it is part of the resolution.  you resolve all aspects of a spell or ability that you can resolve. 

so if you did have infinite mana, you would be able to activate his ability infinite times. 

[psly4mne]

Tasigur turns Ancestral Recall into your kill on the spot (no, they're not going to kill tasigur in the middle as they draw their deck. You have literal infinite counterspells). If you have Noxious Revival in your Gifts+Salvagers list, then Noxious Revival+Thought Scour is a kill. Noxious Revival+Swords+Walk is also a kill (kill all of their creatures, take a 100 extra turns, beat them down, reset your library to lands.

The ancestral kill sounds pretty sweet with a single mindbreak trap it doesn't even matter if they are playing uncounterable spells.

You can't really reset your library though as he always mills 2.

You don't need the mindbreak trap for that. You can just hardcast FOW your own ancestral in response to their spell and keep going off with it on the stack.

[vaughnbros]

Tasigur turns Ancestral Recall into your kill on the spot (no, they're not going to kill tasigur in the middle as they draw their deck. You have literal infinite counterspells). If you have Noxious Revival in your Gifts+Salvagers list, then Noxious Revival+Thought Scour is a kill. Noxious Revival+Swords+Walk is also a kill (kill all of their creatures, take a 100 extra turns, beat them down, reset your library to lands.

The ancestral kill sounds pretty sweet with a single mindbreak trap it doesn't even matter if they are playing uncounterable spells.

You can't really reset your library though as he always mills 2.

You don't need the mindbreak trap for that. You can just hardcast FOW your own ancestral in response to their spell and keep going off with it on the stack.

No you don't need trap, but FOW doesn't stop uncounterable spells.  Since the idea is to have your opponent draw his entire deck if they have a single out to your combo it can be stopped.  Thinking about it more though Teferi would actually be an even safer choice than mindbreak trap as he stops Extirpate one of the few uncounterable spells that can interrupt your combo.  I'm confused by the second sentence there.  Why am I countering my own ancestral?  

[psly4mne]

I was pointing out that you could get around uncounterable spells by continuing to go off in response, since Tasigur's ability and Ancestral are both instant speed. Since your Ancestral is stuck on the stack under the hypothetical nasty uncounterable spell, you would have to counter it to regrow it again and continue killing them. Of course, that is useless against split second spells, particularly Extirpate, so it's not really a good Plan A.

[brianpk80]

Fire // Ice has been the most elegant way of turning this board state into a fatality in my limited experience.  I would sooner do that than put an opponent's entire deck into hand.  Tasigur is an excellent option for an additional "spellbomb" IMO, since rather than cycling for effect/draw when the combo is offline, this one is also an undercosted blocker who fills the yard, puts cards in hand, protects Jace & Dack Fayden (with whom he plays particularly nice), interacts beautifully with Sensei's Divining Top, and then just turns into the final combo piece when the time is right.  It's a lot of value and flexibility for a very low price.  He's been very strong at staving off assaults from Revokers & Manlands in otherwise hopeless situations where I'm so Sphered out even resolving a Sensei Top costs  .  Tasigur and Monastery Mentor are the two standouts from this set.  I'm glad Wizards has gotten away from their overly prude Theros design mentality.

[Protoaddict]

For what its worth, Soulfire Grand master does all of this for 2 mana and is on color, so its tough for me to think that Tasigur is better as a combo piece if you cannot also justify using him as a beatdown creature with a fat ass. Maybe the conversation should be around which of the 2 is better in which list more so than is Tasgur worth it.

SGM does:
Let you go infinite with a timewalk and 6 mana, not infinite
With infinite mana lets you infini-kill with fire//ice
Gains you life every turn you go infinite so you cannot die to your own mana crypt
Is better against grave hate
Typically can come out earlier if needed
Not a legendary
On color with salvagers for combo
does not give your opponent a choice in non looping situations

[Wagner]

I'm confused. Why are we trying to add a win condition to Bomberman that cannot be fetched with Trinket Mage? Would this be in addition to whatever spellbomb you're using? If so, is a subpar card whenever you don't have infinite mana really needed?

I think I'd still rather have a second spellbomb in the deck that can either bounce a Lodestone or draw me a card than an off-color 4/5 that does nothing on its own or a 2/2 with a pretty expensive ability.

[brianpk80]

Tasigur is not sub-par; the whole point is that he has just as much utility as the best Spellbombs and potentially even more considering how incredibly he interacts with the rest of that type of deck (the Top, the Planewaslkers) and shores up Esper's weakness to Shop.  I'd rather have Tasigur than AEther Spellbomb when facing Lodestone Golem.  

Soulfire Grand Master hasn't tested well as any combo enabler.  He's alright as a lifelink bear but given that's his best attribute, one would be better served by Seeker of the Way. 

[mueller]

SGM can also be removed by Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay while Tasigur cannot

[Protoaddict]

SGM also demands a bolt instantly or you can go infinite turns with 8 mana.
Tasigur is really only great if you have infinite already.

I believe both of them to be strong, I am just not sure a deck would want both, or necessarily either, depending on it's weaknesses. I get to 8 mana pretty often in salvagers between counter magic, trinket mages, etc, but looping lotus is something people will fight, they know to look out for it and its fragile. More games with salvagers are won as a U/W Control list than comboing out, but I think SGM may hit more of the correct notes than Tasigur in that list.

[mueller]

if you want infinite turns with a two card combo, half of which is restricted, just use vault key?

tasigur is much better by himself than SGM

[KanaKaishou]

I'll write it up tomorrow, but I have some results for tasigur salvagers from the calvin invi. The tldr is that tasigur is a card which lets you play all of combo, control, and aggro as the situation dictates.