TheManaDrain.com
September 06, 2025, 10:18:28 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Punishing Vintage  (Read 2037 times)
Saturn
Basic User
**
Posts: 2


View Profile Email
« on: December 15, 2015, 10:47:17 am »

With Delver, Pyro, and Mentor pushing the creature wars back into Vintage, Punishing Fire/Grove of the Burnwillows seems strong.  Needlebite, while underrated, is strong and hilarious against storm.

Here is the list I am tinkering with:

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Duress
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Needlebite Trap
1 Memory Jar
1 Sol Ring
1 Regrowth
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Punishing Fire
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Opal
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Mountain
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria

Sideboard:
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Dack Fayden
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Thoughtseize
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Runeflare Trap
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Strip Mine

I want at least one Nature's Claim somewhere in the maindeck, and maybe a Nether Shadow for Intuition.

The sideboard is a hodgepodge of ideas to see what works and what doesn't.
Logged
Aaron Patten
Basic User
**
Posts: 132


Mox Dragon of the Lotus


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2015, 12:01:23 pm »

I want at least one Nature's Claim somewhere in the maindeck, and maybe a Nether Shadow for Intuition.
I think you mean Nether Spirit right?
Logged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8

University is just another one of those pyramid schemes like chain letters, the Freemason Society, Scientology, and... hmm... what's that really famous one? Oh yeah, Capitalism.
thecrav
Basic User
**
Posts: 219


Seems good.


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2015, 08:42:53 pm »

So if I've got this right, you've basically got a fairly stock TPS deck with:

2 Needlebite Trap
2 Punishing Fire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows

Is that right?

With Delver, Pyro, and Mentor pushing the creature wars back into Vintage, Punishing Fire/Grove of the Burnwillows seems strong.

First, I agree but I think you're in completely the wrong archetype.

For the most part, these grow decks don't kill very fast. Even with a strong opener, you're likely to have several turns pass before they're threatening lethal. You should be killing these decks before it matters. Instead of strengthening your matchup against these decks by answering them, strengthen them by just winning.

Looking at some of the recent 4-0/3-1 storm decks on MTGO, only a few played anti-token cards and all of them were sweepers. A couple decks played Massacre (so I suppose they're not worried about Young Peazy at all) and one played Thrashing Freaking Wompus and needs a high five from me.

Oh, also, I don't like the idea of playing 4x a card that gives your opponent life in a deck trying to win with Tendrils. Your job is a lot harder if you draw Punishing Fire when you wanted a real dual.

Second, while Punishing Fire might be a neat thing to try in Vintage, I don't think "answering tokens" is the role it needs to be filling.

1R to kill 1 Young Peazy OR 1 Elemental token OR maybe kill1 Monastery Mentor OR maybe kill 1 Monk token is some pretty awful value. For 1R you could have Electrickery doing 3 of those 4 things to the entire board. You could also have Pyroclasm doing 4 of those 4 things to the board.

I think if Punishing Fire has a place in Vintage, it's in something like it's place in Legacy - killing value creatures and grinding away at opponent's life totals in a long, grindy game.

Needlebite, while underrated, is strong and hilarious against storm.

It might be hilarious but I don't think that it's actually good.

The only time that they're gaining life is when their Tendrils of Agony has been placed on the stack, Storm has triggered, and the copies have begun resolving. The end result is that they drain you (but maybe not enough to kill) and they gain a bunch of life, making your job of Tendrils-ing them to death that much harder. I think I'd rather have counter magic like Flusterstorm or Mindbreak Trap in just about 100% of circumstances. Plus, it can be used mid-combo, making their ability to strip your hand slightly less relevant.

I think you probably put it in there for its ability to kill. That requires two major circumstances. First, your opponent must be at 3 or fewer life when Tendrils begins resolving (because they'll gain 2 before you can "Trap" them). Second, your opponent must not have made you discard this card.

For situations where you're not killing them, all you're doing is saving yourself. And even saving yourself requires that the storm count be less than x+3 where x is the amount of storm required to kill you without having trapped them.

So let's say you don't kill them but you do save yourself. What now? You're at a severely diminished life total, so something as simple as Yawg's Will > Tendrils might be enough to kill you. They've gained a bunch of life off their Tendrils, making your job as a storm pilot all the harder.

I suppose the one redeeming factor of this card against storm is that you might actually just cast it as a 7 mana (or free off Mind's Desire) drain 5.
Logged

Instead of tearing things down we should calmly explain our opinions.
xouman
Basic User
**
Posts: 1082


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2015, 08:55:47 am »

I have to agree with thecrav. If punishing is viable it should be in a slow control deck. Build a deck that is capable of hard control, able to keep combo and other control decks at bay, with a decent options against MUD, and use punishing fire to combat faster aggro decks.)
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.031 seconds with 20 queries.