SOI- Jace, unraveler of secrets

[Ten-Ten]

https://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/jaceunravelerofsecrets.html

Slower than J,TmS. I'm more interested in the ultimate though.
Playable indeed. Will it be played though?

[Katzby]

No, this is not Vintage Playable in the least (just like Thing in the Ice).

If you find yourself excited about and looking forward to recently spoiled cards in a new set, I totally get that and by all means, I think you should enjoy the experience of spoiler season and the hype train.  However, respectfully, I'd suggest that a vintage-oriented forum is really not the best place to discuss obviously below-eternal-format-power-level cards like this one.

[portland]

Ultimate is a poor echo of Erayo. Not one for type I I feel.

[rikter]

I think its fair to discuss the cards, in the context of Vintage. Even if the conclusion is that it isn't worth it, I think there is still value into talking about why.

So, for this guy it is a pretty easy discussion...he is just a weaker version of Jace, the Mindsculptor, with weaker versions of each of Jace's abilities, and so yeah, he shouldn't see play.

[fsecco]

I know we're refurbishing the forum and there is a discussion about harshness of discussions on TMD making people not wanting to post. I get that. But omg how many useless spoiler posts do we really need each spoiler season? I'd really like for people to just breathe deep and let it rest a little before posting spoilers here...

Anyway, this Jace seems awesome. In Commander. Budget.

[thecrav]

Cost: 3UU: That's real rough in Vintage. Tezz just about wins the game for the
+1: Same as TMS' plus 2... except you can only target yourself.
-2: Same as TMS
Ult: Faster than TMS. Doesn't win the game.

It's often been said that the best planes walkers protect themselves (often simply by ticking up quickly) and win the game when they ult. While this Jace does protect itself well, it's ultimate is far from game ending.

[fsecco]

+1 is completely different from Jace TMS' +2...

[xouman]

I know we're refurbishing the forum and there is a discussion about harshness of discussions on TMD making people not wanting to post. I get that. But omg how many useless spoiler posts do we really need each spoiler season? I'd really like for people to just breathe deep and let it rest a little before posting spoilers here...

I have to disagree. While I think this new Jace is strictly worse than JTMS, I like to see other people's opinions on new spoilers. But also with their deck creations, or with reports. If a member is sharing an experience with a non-tier 1, are you saying him to shut up, because it's not vintage worthy? Can you say if a new card (not new yet, it will be soon) is playable or not when it's close? Hangarback wasn't even posted and now it's a staple. Narset got a lot of posts, followed by day's undoing, both of them see 0 play.

It's not about creating a brilliant post with innovative and shiny techs all the time, but I see this forum as a tool to tinker with ideas. I keep learning from other members, and I have to say that I often prefer to read random/rogue ideas before discusing the 75th card of an established deck. I may be alone on this and I would respect new forum's rules, but this forum would lose a lot of life without low level threads as new season spoilers.

[Katzby]

That is not how "strictly worse" works.

[Stormanimagus]

xouman makes a good point. Instead of tearing things down we should calmly explain our opinions. I think this card is not vintage worthy either and here's why:

at 3UU there is a lot of competition for game ending threats and I believe Jace TMS to basically have this guy trumped all all fronts. I think Brainstorm as a pseudo + ability is much better than scry 1 then draw 1. I also think that -1 to bounce a guy is pretty much strictly better than -2 to do the same thing. The ultimate is decent, but so is Jace TMS's ultimate and Jace costs -1 colorless mana. If Jace TMS takes the cake on almost all fronts and you can't have two Jaces with different names in play at once then I think it becomes more clear how unplayable this guy is.

Trust me, I've analyzed a lot of "long shot" cards and I just don't see this one making a splash on the scene.

Contrary to an earlier poster though, I do believe that Thing in the Ice will see some, maybe a lot, of play.

-Storm

[fsecco]

Hey, look, I'm a frequent spoiler poster myself. I just think that there are kinda layers to it. The first time I heard someone praising Hangarback Walker was on the So Many Insane Plays podcast. I thought they were very wrong in liking the card, but understood their reason and all - well I got proved wrong, didn't I? But that's it, if someone wants to discuss the black delver (Heir of Falkenrath?) I'm all for it. It's cost is ok, etc, etc, but there are certain cards I just don't get, y'know?

Every card is "playable". Hell, who thought Porcelain Legionnaire or Seeker of the Way would ever see Vintage play? But they're there under specific circumstances. This could happen to this Jace also. Does it deserve a discussion? I guess not...

I learned a lot about Vintage in this forums exactly by having my bad ideas called out, but maybe I'm being too harsh and I'll myself post some terrible spoiler in the next days...

EDIT: and you know what? If this guy wasn't a Jace I'd probably think it was ok to consider him (although probably still unplayable)