Ankh Sligh

[Gothmog]

Rane, here is where your logic fails...what is Overmaster in the deck instead of?  Very likely burn, so how is Overmaster +1 burn spell better than 2 burn spells?

There are very few situations that OM + Burn is better than 2 Burn spells unless there is significant disparity in the quality of your burn spells.  However, there are many situations 2 Burn spells are better than OM + Burn.

I have Bolt as the only card in hand opponent is at 5.  I Bolt the opponent EoT, top deck for the win, its a......Burn spell, I win......Overmaster, I cast it and have another 40% or so chance to win.

Even your scenario with an opponent playing control and at 3 life makes no sense.  Of course casting Overmaster and then playing burn is better than just playing burn, that's not a fair comparison though.  A fair comparison is including what you'd have in hand instead of Overmaster also, which is more burn.  So, how is Lightning Bolt + Overmaster better than 2 Lightning Bolt?  Until you have a rational answer for this your argument isn't convincing, at least with the card mix you guys are currently using.

You're argument that OM cantrips into seeing more cards sooner doesn't work, because OM is taking the slots of the cards you're trying to draw into in the first place.  If you guys were running more one-of's/broken stuff, I would understand why you'd want to give up tempo with OM to see more cards; but you guys have invariably chosen consistency over brokenness in your deck lists.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing neccesarily, what I am saying is OM and other cycling cards help a consistent deck less than one that had Wheel of Fortune in it for example.

The one thing I will concede in your argument so far is OM + PoP is good, and since you can't run 8 PoP, situations where you already have 4 PoP maindeck and can get OM + PoP in hand are good.  Of course you have no card draw or search essentially in these decklists, so the odds of this happening in a meaningful timeframe are fairly slim.

Also, always falling back on the "you haven't tested it" line of argument is not good.  You don't have the vaguest idea what I or anyone outside your play group may or may not have tested.  Let's move past those kinds of statements and keep up with the productive discussion.  This has been almost entirely a cool thread.  I'm all for innovation and trying new cards, but innovation also has to face scrutiny and testing.  

Last thing, OM does nothing to keep your Fireblast from getting Misdirected.  

[Smash]

I don't need to test a card to know that it sucks. The entire "You haven't tested it so you don't know how good it is" is a load of crap spewed out by newbs. I don't need to "test" to know jackal pup is better than goblin cadet. I don't need to test to know wasteland is better than rishidan port. Nor do I need to test to know another burn spell is better than OM.

Like it or know.. OM + bolt is RR for 3 damage and a card. You are better off just casting a bolt and a chain for RR and 6 damage.

Like it or not, sligh often gets down to topdeck mode. They are sitting at 2 life with no hand and you have no board and no hand. If you topdeck a dork, you play him, and they either deal or die next turn. If you topdeck a burn you end it right there. If you topdeck an OM... you sit there and cycle it.

If you are getting fireblasts misD'ed back at you, I would say you need to be more prudent with your use of burn spells. In any case misD is usually a 2for1 like force of will, so it is not as bad as it sounds when they do use it. Sure losing 2 mountians to blast is bad, but you should have plenty of land when you cast if if they have something in their hand.

Overmaster is horribly bad vs anything control. So even if it was decent vs control (because sometimes it would let you get a POP through), it is totally horrible vs anything non-control.  Because of all the land in your deck, when you cycle it you DO come out behind of casting a real spell, both in terms of card advantage and tempo.

Vs control game 1 it may do cute things like let you do OM + POP. OM + bolt is just not that big of a deal.

Vs control games 2 and 3, it will suck because of chill. OM will cost 3 to cycle. So for 6 mana you get a cantripping bolt. Yay! Go zap!

So MAYBE you have a case OM can do OK vs control game 1. But game 2 and 3 vs anything with chill, or any aggro or combo deck, OM is crap.

We need legend back on the forums to beat some sense into these sligh players with their lack of experience and blinding ghetto logos.

[Androstanolone]

I've been kinda sitting the fence on the OM deal, but after reading and rereading all the arguments I have to lend my credence to Smash and Goth.  They make good arguments and my common sense tells me that OM simply doesn't cut it.  



- Andro

Edit:  I do want to reiterate, however, that OM would be better if sligh ran more game-ending bombs like price, in other words I agree that if we could run 8 price then OM could see play.

[Fëanor]

Yep, Gothmog and Smash both have goo arguments. The reason to play OM we're assuming is because of some sort of finisher buffer. Need to remember that that isnt nec. the only reason to play it. Rane does seem to have an expensive look on Sligh. When I play Scroll in my decks I never amount to the mana I need to use it, and I usually kill without it, or would kill, if the Scroll had been a bolt etc.

On OM: Seedtime is a kickass card. If I had the room I'd play four in each green SB. Why don't I maindeck it? for the same reason I wouldn't maindeck OM. I'm thinking about not playing it at all. After a few test runs OM is just another spell. Yes, spells are good, and OM is esp good because it cantrips, but on the other hand, its another card to be stormed by your opponent for Brain Freeze, it's another card for your opponent to counter! duh. Even with insufficient land open, good Gay fish players etc. can force of will and foil/daze, two spells if need be. Doesnt mean they will, but they could very easily. It has other opponent advantages as well that I haven't thought of.

@Smash: You have been very constructive in your posts. However, I think ignoring the testing process is a little ignorant. Example: People looked at Darksteel spoilers and thought up cool Trinisphere combos etc. Of course when they netdecked and went through to actually play the deck, Trinisphere turned out not to be as controlling or helpful as they thought (not that it isn't entirely useless ). A certain amount of testing is required to really know what a card is capable of doing. Half of our disagreements are related to where we play and what we play against. Testing is a must. Nevertheless, I don't think it was appropriate for Rane to tell you you haven't tested. I'm simply mentioning that cards need to be tested regardless. Oh and who said Rishidan Port was better than Wasteland? (in a scrubby tounament... ).

right now im working on a new form of the deck. I havent been putting much thought into it for a while, but I think I'll pick it up for a few days since I now have the time. I'm going to play with 4 Ankh, 4 Pillar and the Scrolls/'Mancers, with a little mana denail, but idk about the miners since, they are relatively slow mana denial in competitive. I'll be running less creature base...um anyway I don't have a final decklist but those who are wondering can look back at Rane's double decklist post one page back, I think....

I'm also thinking about finding a specific way to use bigger booms. I did this in 1.5 so why not here?
[card]Sonic Blast[/card]
[card]Shrapnel Blast[/card]
[card]Goblin Grenade[/card]
[card]Reckless Abandon[/card]
[card]Flame Rift[/card]

Of course not all of these cards are good, but I want to see if any of them would work in this kind of deck. Please give me feedback.

Thanks Team Bolt and other people who just post randomly and don't want to be a part of the most spontaneous team in history (you choose)...yo!

Peace

[Gothmog]

Initial Thoughts:

Sonic Burst - Without some other benefit of discarding a card the drawback is tough to stomach.

Shrapnel Blast - Tailor made for Stacker decks of course...Would need more artifacts sadly.  One of my personal favorite cards though.

Goblin Grenade - A good use for all those Cadets   .  If you were playing at bare minimum 12 Goblins, its tough to dislike at least a couple of these.  Sorcery speed is painful.

Reckless Abandon - same as Grenade but works for any creature and one point less damage.  Again the sorcery speed and the conditional nature doesn't seem to be worth 1 point of damage over Incinerate.  As a side note, Blast, Grenade and Abandon all kill Platinum Angel dead, dead, dead.  Of course Fireblast does also, and has insane speed to go with it.

Flame Rift - I've always been a big fan of this card.  If you play in a Misdirection filled environment, maybe but the fact it doesn't kill Platinum Angels, Arrogant Wurms, etc hurts it.

The issue with all these Burn Spells is the bar is so high.  Linghtning Bolt, Incinerate, Chain, Fireblast, PoP are what they are compared too, its tough to dislike those.  Of your list, Shrapnel Blast is the best card because its an instant, it "saves" an artifact from destruction making it useful & 5 dmg vs 3 is significant.  The only issue is playing enough artifacts.

Lets be honest though Sligh's primary weakness is its creatures, not the burn.  Finding, good, consistent, non-conditional damage sources (creatures most likely) is the key to improving Sligh.  The burn spells we use are already very good.

[Rane]

I don't need to test a card to know that it sucks. The entire "You haven't tested it so you don't know how good it is" is a load of crap spewed out by newbs. I don't need to "test" to know jackal pup is better than goblin cadet. I don't need to test to know wasteland is better than rishidan port. Nor do I need to test to know another burn spell is better than OM.

Like it or know.. OM + bolt is RR for 3 damage and a card. You are better off just casting a bolt and a chain for RR and 6 damage.

Like it or not, sligh often gets down to topdeck mode. They are sitting at 2 life with no hand and you have no board and no hand. If you topdeck a dork, you play him, and they either deal or die next turn. If you topdeck a burn you end it right there. If you topdeck an OM... you sit there and cycle it.

If you are getting fireblasts misD'ed back at you, I would say you need to be more prudent with your use of burn spells. In any case misD is usually a 2for1 like force of will, so it is not as bad as it sounds when they do use it. Sure losing 2 mountians to blast is bad, but you should have plenty of land when you cast if if they have something in their hand.

Overmaster is horribly bad vs anything control. So even if it was decent vs control (because sometimes it would let you get a POP through), it is totally horrible vs anything non-control.  Because of all the land in your deck, when you cycle it you DO come out behind of casting a real spell, both in terms of card advantage and tempo.

Vs control game 1 it may do cute things like let you do OM + POP. OM + bolt is just not that big of a deal.

Vs control games 2 and 3, it will suck because of chill. OM will cost 3 to cycle. So for 6 mana you get a cantripping bolt. Yay! Go zap!

So MAYBE you have a case OM can do OK vs control game 1. But game 2 and 3 vs anything with chill, or any aggro or combo deck, OM is crap.

We need legend back on the forums to beat some sense into these sligh players with their lack of experience and blinding ghetto logos.

Ok first up this will clear up a lot of stuff.  Smash and Goth are completely right that any burn spell we would take out is better than OM.  That would be if I was putting OM in a burn spells place though...

I was considering doing something more like this;
4xJackal Pup
4xGoblin Cadets
4xGorilla Shaman
4xGrim Lavamancer

4xLightning Bolt
4xChain Lightning
4xIncinerate
4xPoP

3xFireblast
3xCursed Scroll
4xOvermaster

17xMounatin
1xMox Ruby

SB
4xScald
4xRnR/Meekstone
4xPyrostatic Pillar
3xPyrokinesis/Meekstone

So no more debates on why drawing Chain Lighting would be better.

IMPORTANT:
I am also aware of the Newbish cry of "You haven't tested it."  There is also however the Newbish cry of "I don't need to test it." Smmenen has had a plethora of idea's that were shut down at first along with many, many, many other people.  Then these idea's went on to change the face of the T1 metagame.  I'm not saying this is a game-revolutionising card, just an idea that's worth looking into.  'New' cards DO NEED TESTING.  It's not like Wastelands or Pups because they have been tested for years.  On that note when Pup immeadiatly came out nobody knew how good they were.  When Wastelands originally came out nobody knew how strong they would be come.  Who honestly thought that Strip Mine would be banned?  Who knew the power of the Power 9?  Who knew that Yawg Will would become Yawg Win?  Duals?  Painlands?  I could go on forever.  It's a bloody stupid argument to say that you don't need to test a card that hasn't been tested.  When intelligent people knock back a deck idea or card selection it's because it HAS been tested before.  I serioulsy doubt OM has, so leave the arrogance at home.

As for the comment that OM "is horrible vs anything but control" that just shows that you haven't tested.  IF YOU HAD you would have found out as I did that it very raely makes a difference at all.  The only time I ever actually minded it was when I drew a mediocre opening hand with it and wasn't sure whether to mull.  That was a small % of the time and seeing as though OM's are going in for basically lands I would've mulled anyway, so I didn't really lose anything, just gain the option to 'roll the dice.'

Who plays Chill anymore??????????????????

Like I said I never stated this as the "saviour of Sligh" just a card choice.  Ohh and yeh, as much as I respect Legend, the amount of sheep that just say "I wish Legend was here because >insert lame excuse<" is beginning to sicken me.  On a side note I bet you a Black Lotus that Legend would test a card he hasn't played with.  Think for yourselves and test new cards.

For Feanor;

Assuming you mean Sonic Burst, it's crap because you would rather play Volcanic Hammers. It can turn your Mounatins or creatures into 1 more dmg late game, but that's a condition.

Reckless Abandon is pretty much the same as the above.

Goblin Grenade is again smae as above, plus it's to hard to find a goblin in non-gobbo Sligh. Conditional cards really do hurt Sligh.

Shrapnel Blast works well with Ankh Sligh that runs Scrolls and Mox, but traditional Sligh with Blasts is just better.

Flame Rift would be an excellent card that I used for quite a while. It falls short because as much as I thought it wouldn't, the four dmg taken is too much. It hurts than much against other aggro it isn't funny, let alone the mirror. I drew about 50 games with it that I could have won if it was a Shock.

I agree with Goth that the burn is excellent. The future of Sligh is in the creature base. We need a card that is Goblin Cadets + Mogg Fanatic. "R, Goblin, 2/1, sac: deal one dmg to any target." I can dream can't I?

DON'T DOUBLE POST.  FEAR THIS AND TREMBLINGLY OBEY.[/b]

[kirdape3]

Seriously though, why is this deck better than the emerging best aggro deck in the entire format, Food Chain Goblins?  Ankh Sligh actually beats very little, whereas Food Chain defeats the entire realm of aggro decks, plus can race the combo decks, plus can beat the prison decks on the play, plus is no worse against the control decks?

It's not THAT much more expensive (Scrolls will set you back about as much as Taigas, which leaves you with Chrome Mox, Mana Crypt, and Goblin Piledriver x4 to acquire), and it will actually win more games.  Just a thought.

[Smash]

@kird
It's not any better than food chain



@Rane
Don't quote my entire post, that is obnoxious.

I could think of MANY spells I would rather have in your deck than overmaster.
Mog fantastic, Ankh, tangle wire, scepter, firewalker, big balls... any one of these spells (no matter how good or bad they are in general), I would rather draw than an overmaster.

I am also aware of the Newbish cry of "You haven't tested it." There is also however the Newbish cry of "I don't need to test it."

When you mature as a magic player, you can see how something works on paper. No amount of playtesting would make me want to play Shivan Dragon in my sligh deck. I see it on paper; the card does exactly what is listed on it. There is no magic surprise factor in magic where a card does something not listed on paper. And frankly, I don't want any part of it.  I have no doubt sometimes any given card can let you pull a win out of your butt. However, drudge skeleton in Sui can pull a win out vs. tog in certain situations. On paper I know drudge skeleton sucks, but in practice he won me a game vs tog. yayyyy!! Drudge skeleton is awesome!  The fact of the matter is, you can't playtest every given change in a deck vs. every other given deck enough times to always prove card A is good or bad. You have to use your gut. Again, I am not being "arrogant", I am being "mature"... or maybe "good", call it what you will.

Ohh and yeh, as much as I respect Legend, the amount of sheep that just say "I wish Legend was here because >insert lame excuse<" is beginning to sicken me. On a side note I bet you a Black Lotus that Legend would test a card he hasn't played with. Think for yourselves and test new cards.

It is quite foolish to disregard intelligent work that has been done in the past. However, the only reason I wanted legend here was so he could beat you into the ground with his humorous rants.

[Rane]

Since WHEN did I disregard intelligent work that was done in the past???  Can you like, not put words in my mouth?  And there is a big difference between knowing that Shivan Dragon is crap in T1 and knowing that Stifle is good.  Some cards are plain obvious, others aren't.  I quoted your entire post not to be obnoxious but because I replied to the whole thing and not a section.  Also those other cards (bar Mogg Fantastic as I love him,) would be no where near as good as OM, or even a Mountain for that matter in Sligh.  We made clear explanations of this over the course of the thread.

And that drudge skeletons example is the definition of arrogance.

I am being "mature"... or maybe "good", call it what you will.

That in itself, is arrogant.  Whether you be right or wrong.

I'm not going to continue wasting my time trying to defend Overmaster to you or any other of my choices.   We have already covered these in the previous pages of the thread.  I'm not holding anything against you as I don't hold grudges and do not wish to start a flame war over a card that just 'might' be worth using.  If you don't want to use it fine, but please do not continue to put it down without testing it.


With that, the testing is going great.  The card just keeps getting better and better.

[jpmeyer]

Wow, this has gone on for 15 pages

[Smash]

Wow, this has gone on for 15 pages

They don't let just anyone on Team Paragon.  :lol:

[Rane]

Lol!

Whilst testing continues for OM, I put forward the question of Mogg Fantastics or Goblin Cadets?  I have always been a strong advocater of the Cadets as you really do need 8x2/1, but Fantastics are so Fanatic... I mean, yeh, you know what I mean.  So Cadets or Fantastics?

[Smash]

Lol!

Whilst testing continues for OM, I put forward the question of Mogg Fantastics or Goblin Cadets?  I have always been a strong advocater of the Cadets as you really do need 8x2/1, but Fantastics are so Fanatic... I mean, yeh, you know what I mean.  So Cadets or Fantastics?

It's a metagame call. Fantastics own aggro and work ok vs welders, cadets own creature light control/combo. (tho I wouldn't use the word "own" to describe sligh vs combo... )

[Dr. Sylvan]

Wow, this has gone on for 15 pages

I tried reading it, really I did. The interesting bit was when everybody flamed Tony for trying out ideas. That was a hoot. Then I decided to write 6000 words about education for my own personal enjoyment instead of reading the rest, and I'm not even kidding.

I'm not an expert on FCG and Sligh matchups (the latter mostly consisting of "bad"), but can anyone outline a metagame where Sligh is distinguishably better than FCG and/or Gobvantage or even roughly the same? Seems to me that creatures are better than burn vs both counterspells and other creatures, and only the combo-gobbos have a prayer against real combo.

[Smash]

Wow, this has gone on for 15 pages

I tried reading it, really I did. The interesting bit was when everybody flamed Tony for trying out ideas. That was a hoot. Then I decided to write 6000 words about education for my own personal enjoyment instead of reading the rest, and I'm not even kidding.

I'm not an expert on FCG and Sligh matchups (the latter mostly consisting of "bad"), but can anyone outline a metagame where Sligh is distinguishably better than FCG and/or Gobvantage or even roughly the same? Seems to me that creatures are better than burn vs both counterspells and other creatures, and only the combo-gobbos have a prayer against real combo.

Controlish ankh sligh can do really good in a field of sui, fish, controlish tog, and keeper (i.e. last years gencon save for a few stax and combo).

The more burn heavy slighs also do better against TnT

[Fëanor]

Yes the thread has gone on for fifteen pages what a surprise...........

Actually, I think part of the success of an article such as the one I began way back when I won that scrub tourney, was that while Sligh is definitely not competitive beef it IS an archtype that has been around for a long time. Sure, Zherbus's keeper decks get lots of comentary because lots of people play keeper. Most decks on TMD have to do with welders and karns and squees (goblins rule???), because that's what people play all over in large quantities. However, there are people like me who shun fancy competitive cloning and go off on a more creative (less popular) and possibly less effective tangent. And I'm not alone: Smash, Lyrrus, Rane, Androstanolone, Gothmog, Ric Flair, Gbj, Gunslinga, lilmidget, RoadTrippin', Yttric Ventus, Razer51, MTG_Djinn as well as numerous other one time posters all have their exstatic opinions and thoughts on one of the longest lasting red-aggro decks in Magic. Some, needless to say, take it more seriously than others, and some play decks like mine in tounaments everywhere and I Doubt there isn't a Sligh somewhere nearby pretty much anywhere you play.
So, what I'm trying to say (and I hope Dr. Sylvan will now understand) is simply that this whole thread has done little to change to face of magic, nor has it tried to make the most earth shattering plays ever, those things happen by accident. I really never thought many people would have much to say about my scrubby built Ankh Sligh trying to be more competitive, and in fact I was a little discouraged when Toad moved us into an environment in which we didn't belong. YES, this thread has been going on for a long time, and it has evolved from my crappy deck ideas into a community forum on Sligh, which I don't mind at all. Hopefully new posters will realize it's not competitive nature nor a feeling of must win for Sligh that makes people want to play it.
It's just fun. That's what Magic is all about.

Peace

[Vegeta2711]

Dr. Sylvan: Ankh Sligh has a better game against Landstill than FCG. That's about it.  :lol:

BTW, despite your petty arguing for the last 5 pages or so and earlier in the thread, congrats for managing to not be closed ater 16 pages.

[RoadTrippin]

Sligh is definitely not competitive beef it IS an archtype that has been around for a long time. Sure, Zherbus's keeper decks get lots of comentary because lots of people play keeper. Most decks on TMD have to do with welders and karns and squees (goblins rule???), because that's what people play all over in large quantities. However, there are people like me who shun fancy competitive cloning and go off on a more creative (less popular) and possibly less effective tangent.

Honestly, I'm sure there are many, many more people who play Sligh than those who pilot Keeper, or any top tier deck. Maybe more Sligh than all the top-tier decks combined. That's because Sligh is cheap and has been around forever (not to mention new players can't get enough of it for some reason). The fact that so many people play regularly and subtly develop the deck but it still doesn't win tournaments says an awful lot about the archetype. The Vintage metagame takes swings- I'm sure Sligh will be at a high(er) point again in the future. The decks you cited as examples do receive more discussion- but they receive more criticism as well- because those are areas we as a Vintage community are just dipping into compared to Sligh. It's been discussed to death, and anything offered by new sets can be identified right away.

So that's why Sligh discussion is so scarce/ unyielding, because it's been discussed ten times over. It's amazing this thread has gone on for 15 pages, but most players aren't gaining anything from it- we know what the thought process is behind using many cards and neglecting to use many more cards that have been discussed here. Don't be disappointed that "better" players aren't discussing Ankh Sligh as much as Stax or Keeper right now.

[lilmidget]

wow...

i go away for a little while and all of a sudden i'm stuck with 10 pages worth of catching up.

Honestly, I'm sure there are many, many more people who play Sligh than those who pilot Keeper, or any top tier deck. Maybe more Sligh than all the top-tier decks combined. That's because Sligh is cheap and has been around forever (not to mention new players can't get enough of it for some reason). The fact that so many people play regularly and subtly develop the deck but it still doesn't win tournaments says an awful lot about the archetype. The Vintage metagame takes swings- I'm sure Sligh will be at a high(er) point again in the future. The decks you cited as examples do receive more discussion- but they receive more criticism as well- because those are areas we as a Vintage community are just dipping into compared to Sligh. It's been discussed to death, and anything offered by new sets can be identified right away.

i'm sure many of us were all once one of those newbies that started out with a sligh deck that had cards that would that would have made better coasters. i know i was. sligh is cheaper and easier to play than keeper or stax, no doubt about it. that's why it's played among newbies, not because it's a deck design for newbies only.

we all try to optimize our decks with the best cards available to us. and even then, sometimes our decks still don't win tournaments. but that doesn't mean we should stop discussing sligh and stop playing it. if anything else, it should encourage to try even harder to look at different cards and improve our decks.

So that's why Sligh discussion is so scarce/ unyielding, because it's been discussed ten times over. It's amazing this thread has gone on for 15 pages, but most players aren't gaining anything from it- we know what the thought process is behind using many cards and neglecting to use many more cards that have been discussed here. Don't be disappointed that "better" players aren't discussing Ankh Sligh as much as Stax or Keeper right now.

discussing sligh over and over again is what will allow us to make sure there is nothing we missed. keeper is almost as old as sligh and has been discussing over and over again as well. you want to try to ask zherbus to stop discussing keeper?

i applaud feanor for introducing new cards to discuss. i know we have seen most of those cards before and have already disregarded them after taking a glance at them, but bringing them into the discussion will allow us to at least consider them even for a little while.

on a separate topic, i have tried out the Red Lockdown deck. it seems good to me, but the dwarven miners seem too slow. you waste turn 2 on and then turn 3 to use its ability. i still prefer traditional sligh variants (ankh sligh, isosligh) over this, but that's just my opinion.

[Rane]

As was stated earlier Sligh is not played at a high level well because the majority of Sligh players are not really competitive or experienced.  For Feanor, if you don't want to play serious T1 fine, but I for one am glad that this is out of the Newbie forum where we had to justify the use of PoP and the like.

Sligh is played because Bolts are cool.

I will always be an aggro player at heart and red is my favourite colour in magic.  Sligh fits that perfectly as my pet deck.  That doesn't mean I don't play other decks on the side *Keeper is making a comeback booyah!*.

Also I haven't had much time to test RL lately, but have been using Fanatics more over Cadets.  I guess it really is a meta call, I guess I'll stick with the Cadets as competition is tight round here.  OM is holding up, but much more testing is required.

[Fëanor]

How, odd, we seem to have shifted yet again...I'm getting dizzy. Could the moderators please pick a forum and keep it there? oh and what happened to the smileys? they're back to abnormal...

As far as the RL deck, I've realized that the 'Mancer/Scroll lockdown doesn't stand well on it's own. I would love to play traditional Sligh, but I fear, with all it's speed, it has little defenses against combo and off color aggro. I think as far as pups/cadets goes, from now on we should just think of them as the same creature and not that in future declists, as we would mana elves:

x Pups/Cadets (where x is 0-8)

Lilmidget has some good points...ah the days of losing miserably to game after game of pros-bloom.... :lol:
But really, eternal testing is what magic players spend their boring lives doing. I still have my elfball decklist around here somewhere and when I'm done with Sligh, it's back to tweaking elfball over and over and over and.......

@Roadtrippin': You seem like one of those people who "isn't getting anything" from this thread. We are sorry our efforts do not please your lordship...thanks for posting anyway even though you don't care.

Peace

[lilmidget]

we got moved back to the newbies forum...

Wow, this has gone on for 15 pages

They don't let just anyone on Team Paragon.  :lol:

guess thats wat happens when you insult a member of Team Paragon...

now that maindeck and sideboard null rods are gone from when i used to post here, how about considering isochron scepter once again. wasP has recently posted his isosligh deck in the open type 1 forum. maybe its time to take another look at the scepter.

[Fëanor]

@Lilmidget: I took a lookie at wasP's dek. I even tested it (teehee it looked fun). If youre simply considering adding Iso- then I can understand, but I wouldn't want to work with two colors...I had a bad experience!

You may have been there when I personally shut Iso- out of discussion. Still I think the card is power not to be forgotten, but so many decks want it dead. You'd be lucky to even imprint. It would really suck to have a useless scepter in play and no blasts to blow it up. Also, don't forget, even though we're not running Rod (or I'm not) that doesn't mean your opponent won't be. Null Rod is one of the more common SB options for many reasons. Come to think of it, with the power to shut down slaver, power, (Iso ), Scroll, um....Temporal Aperture......um....right.... .I'd think of running it instead of Iso-. the stik is more of a win-more than the rod. Of course this is only my opinion. What does everyone else think?

Peace