Waterbury, Phil Stanton, and You

[Kowal]

Pretty easy here.  I think it should, since Waterbury is the biggest vintage event in the world, and as such making the cut there should count as much as a top eight in a 60 person event.

[Dr. Sylvan]

The problem, as I tried to tell you in AIM, is that if I make it different for Waterbury, I have to include T16s for other large events. And that's a big shift, let me tell you. I'd have to pick a cutoff number of players to count the 9th-16th decks (100? 128?) and then I'd have to actually get that information. The logistical concerns aside, what mystical barrier makes 200 more important than 140? Here's a brief excerpt of Kowal and my AIM conversation:

(21:35:42) Ben Kowal: I'ma start a poll on TMD so you have no choice :p
(21:36:05) =me=: dude
(21:36:19) =me=: i'ma gonna not include T16s
(21:37:51) =me=: the difference between 140 and 200 is nothing in terms of swiss rounds, so there's no need to double my consideration just because ray happens to be the sun god

Seriously, this is not a strong idea. Waterbury T16s aren't going in until they're much, much bigger. Like, Grand Prix size. If five hundred people play, I'd be much more open to it.

[Kowal]

The big difference I see between waterbury and other events to make the 16 from waterbury feasible is that waterbury is the only one that actually cuts to top sixteen.  The lists are already posted for that cut, so the only additional work on your part is adding another 600 cards to your results for the month.

[Dante]

if you're including a bunch of people/decks who end up x-2 or x-1-2 or worse just because Ray happens to cut to top 16, then they shouldn't be included...

[Meddling Mike]

Well, does the fact that the cut is made to t16 skew your results? Somebody with perfect record who would have made the cut to t8 if such a cut was made, if he loses in the first round of a t16 then you ignore the fact that his deck navigated the swiss well enough to t8 if the cut had been made there rather than t16. Just a thought.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Well, does the fact that the cut is made to t16 skew your results? Somebody with perfect record who would have made the cut to t8 if such a cut was made, if he loses in the first round of a t16 then you ignore the fact that his deck navigated the swiss well enough to t8 if the cut had been made there rather than t16. Just a thought.

Yes, it does cause a skew if someone in the top eight swiss slots loses to a 9-16 deck. I have been at peace with this problem for a while now.

[Morganti]

From a purely greedy information wanting standpoint, i wouldn't mind having a text page of the t-16, if thats the cut off

If there is a cut after swiss rounds, i like to know what makes the cut, and what doesn't.


Just some random thoughts

~D~

[Methuselahn]

I think you should add them.  And while your adding things, add who won the die rolls. 

[Green Knight]

Okay so the good Dr. doesn't want to add the top 16 forWaterbury, what about the 05/14 - French Vintage Championships - Beta P9?
With a maximum player base of 512 we get top 16 right, since this will be twice the size of the biggest Type One to date, or do you think that would be more of a top 32 thing 

[knickers]

How many people are they expecting for this event?

[Dr. Sylvan]

I think you should add them.  And while your adding things, add who won the die rolls. 

If only everyone would record that!

Okay, I'll commit to this: 500 people means I'll include the whole Top 16. It has the aesthetic appeal of being one order of magnitude more than my cutoff. (And you know what that means? 5,000 players = Top 32 included!)

[Godder]

Looks like Phil is safe, 'only' ~140 entries. As a side note, since Waterbury cuts to top 16, do you pick off the top 8 after Swiss, or after the first round of the finals?