[Article] 5 Fundamental Lessons Of Magic - Vintage Style

[Vegeta2711]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10173.html

It's basically just a tip guide, just helpful hints on not sucking! 

[JuJu]

I liked it Josh, Short and to the point. Surprisingly, all five of them mix up together to make it really difficult for people. One thing that people have to remember is to try and know other's people's decks almost as well as yours. If you don't know how to play against other decks, you're never going to be able to properly sideboard, mulligan and etc against them.

As a side note. People have to leave Will alone -.-

[darkchild]

Nice Article!

Your example of the fish and gifts matchup seems a little wierd. The gifts player LOST the first match and chose to draw first instead of playing in the second? Seriously, he deserve to lose just based on that decision

[Vegeta2711]

Like I said in the SCG forums, we go by alternate play testing. The Gifts player had been on the play and lost game 1 and so it was the Fish player's play for game 2 (Hence alternate play, instead of deciding by losses). If you want to apply it to a tourney setting, just pretend it was game 1, but you knew the opponent had Fish.

Thanks.

[Smmenen]

That gifts player is *awful*.  Keeping that hand against Fish shows that the gifts player has no idea what they are doing.

And as I said in the SCG forums:
The whole "Shut up" section was completely unnecessary.  This isn't about saying that the sky is falling.  I can't remember anywhere in my article on Will that I said that the sky iis falling. 

There is a huge difference between saying that there simply aren't enough proxies and saying that more proxies would be better.   Sitting by and shutting up is worse than being wrong becuase it represents a failure to want to improve. There is always room for improvement, ALWAYS.   

[Vegeta2711]

That gifts player is *awful*.  Keeping that hand against Fish shows that the gifts player has no idea what they are doing.

And as I said in the SCG forums:
The whole "Shut up" section was completely unnecessary.  This isn't about saying that the sky is falling.  I can't remember anywhere in my article on Will that I said that the sky iis falling. 

There is a huge difference between saying that there simply aren't enough proxies and saying that more proxies would be better.   Sitting by and shutting up is worse than being wrong becuase it represents a failure to want to improve. There is always room for improvement, ALWAYS.   

Um duh. That's the point of the example. It's obvious to many people, but a number of people keep hands like that because they are just so blinded by 'omg, 4 mana and Gifts on turn 1!'. It's obious to you and some other players, but just look at the SCG forums. Some people are like, 'hm, maybe I should keep'

If it was something less subtle, more people would argue about, 'lolol, should he mulligan or no?' instead of reading the actual points.

Past that, stop being SO PARANOID. Sometimes (Shockingly enough) people aren't taking personal shots at you.  Like I said in the SCG forums, it's how I feel and I'm not going to stop telling people that, because I might offend someone.

[Smmenen]

Past that, stop being SO PARANOID. Sometimes (Shockingly enough) people aren't taking personal shots at you.  Like I said in the SCG forums, it's how I feel and I'm not going to stop telling people that, because I might offend someone.

I wasn't assuminng that you were targeting me, but I did assume that I was lumped in with the broader group you were calling out.

I'm simply trying to point out that not every discussion about proxies or the banned and restricted list should be labeled chicken little syndrome.  Discussing the banned and restricted list or the number of proxies is appropriate in almost any context and isn't necessarily motivated by fear, but sometimes a genuine desire to improve.  I'm simply pointing tht out for people who don't see that. 

[Mox Sapphire]

I almost thought the OP was directly referring to Menendian with his last paragraph, which gave me a good laugh. Great article. I loved the part about gaining small advantages, as most vintage players often overlook that. Keep up the good work!

[Dozer]

The whole "Shut up" section was completely unnecessary. [...] Sitting by and shutting up is worse than being wrong becuase it represents a failure to want to improve. There is always room for improvement, ALWAYS.

That "shut up"-section was quite good. This is the time when we all should take a step back and admire what we have achieved. I credit much of it to you, Smmenen, and the work of all other tireless activists, TOs and writers. The current tournament structure has never looked better, Vintage was never better known, and the format never was this well established as a serious format. There is a lot of room for further achievement, too. But always pushing on and never stopping to admire the view doesn't help, either. Of course we need to care about the future, but we need not worry. That was the point, and I think it is very true and valid.

For the first time in history, we have something we can build on instead of having to build anew. Let's not over-burden the fragile structure, because some things have to settle down before you can build on them without crushing them. This, for example, applies to the role of GenCon as Worlds. Let's solidify what we have (proper qualifiers, lobby for travel awards etc.). I think that should be the first priority right now. The Northeast of the US is so far ahead that maybe it is time to let the rest of the world catch up and then progress together.

Dozer

[PucktheCat]

1. Do not keep 1-2 colored mana source hands just because you think you can draw out of them. Moxen aren't on-color usually and are also open to disruption, so people seem to forget, "Oh hey, my first land got Wasted and now I have... one Blue source and a colorless." Yeah you look like a real champ not being able to cast that Mana Drain now.

I agree that should almost never keep a one colored source hand against anything with Wastelands, but I think you have to keep some two colored source hands in those matchups.  Current T1 blue decks run around 16 blue sources.  According to Magic Workstation's statistical analysis widget (which may not be 100% accurate, but I think isn't way off) you will only get more than two blue sources around 35% of the time with 16 blue sources.  There is no way it is correct to mulligan based on lands alone (not even looking at threats or other spells) two thirds of the time.

Leo

[Vegeta2711]

I meant more along the lines of you have good -expensive- cards in hand or cards that rely on double colored costs. That's like bringing up an example of MWS decks: You can easily get away with 1 colored source, because most of the cards you have are colorless. I'm simply assuming people know this stuff already. I apologize if anyone misinterpreted that as some sort of hard rule for every deck or situation.

Obviously your going to keep if you have 2 colored sources and some cheap draw in hand. 2 colored sources and no relevant plays until turn 3 though, other than Drain/FoW, is kind of begging to lose to mana disruption though. Stuff like that. Past that almost every single 1 colored source hand by control should be dumped, barring your hand being insane. That I can safely say after playing with and against control decks for way too long.

[Dralock]

I meant more along the lines of you have good -expensive- cards in hand or cards that rely on double colored costs. That's like bringing up an example of MWS decks: You can easily get away with 1 colored source, because most of the cards you have are colorless. I'm simply assuming people know this stuff already. I apologize if anyone misinterpreted that as some sort of hard rule for every deck or situation.

Obviously your going to keep if you have 2 colored sources and some cheap draw in hand. 2 colored sources and no relevant plays until turn 3 though, other than Drain/FoW, is kind of begging to lose to mana disruption though. Stuff like that. Past that almost every single 1 colored source hand by control should be dumped, barring your hand being insane. That I can safely say after playing with and against control decks for way too long.

Possibly you should have said before (but not in the article, I got your point, and I'm sure that many others who help out new people understood your example for what it was) that the article is geared toward someone who would keep that kind of hand because they are still relatively new to using power. Seriously, many vintage players who have been playing since the game started are just recently (in the past 2 years) been allowed to use power. For someone who has played the game for SO long without it, the ability can shake their playing down. And so they will start doing crazy stupid things like keeping a hand with no follow-up.

Just sayin`

[everythingitouchdies]

I found the article a comfortable read, and decided to remove the RESTRICT CHALICE OF THE VOID from my quote box and put something more personally suiting. Still, I agree with steve here, its better to be wrong than be quiet. If I never said what I was thinking I would never get better and I might never develop, and I would also hold stuff in and let it fester. Same goes with the community. Yeah the format is healthy, but that doesnt mean we should stop expressing ourselves on what we dont like.

Oh enough of me sounding like I am complaining, I actually really enjoyed it and I was glad JD pointed it out to me because I am too narrow to find stuff myself.

Love ya all
EITD