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Author Topic: You MUST take Anti-Cancer Vaccine!!!  (Read 3714 times)
LotusHead
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« on: February 03, 2007, 03:44:40 am »

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/02/02/D8N1PVG80.html

I don't know anything about Drug Companies, Lobbyists or Political Connections, but damn...

Forced to take "cancer vaccine"? Weird.

Is AIDS and such hardcore Virus types the only ones without vaccines? (ie: no cure for the common cold)?

Anybody know about this stuff?

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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2007, 10:53:46 am »

Cervical cancer claims entirely too many young women. This new vaccine works against the types that acutally cause cervical dysplasia...and theoretically could wipe out the incidence of cervical cancer completely. I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to include this in the list of mandatory vaccines...such as tetanus, diptheria, pertussis, etc. It's only by making vaccines mandatory that we've been able to virtually negate formerly common diseases. There's no way to prevent HPV transmission during sex...condoms don't cut it. This vaccine will save countless lives.

Now the serotypes that don't cause cancer are the onces that cause genital warts...which are also becoming VERY prevelant in the highschool and college crowds Sad

As far as the question regarding viruses that don not have current vaccines..the worst of these include Hepatits C (blood transmission) and HIV (body fluid). Like I mentioned earlier..non-cancer causing HPV strains have no vaccine either..so genital warts can't be prevented.
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2007, 03:13:54 pm »

The common cold is actually just a collection of symptoms common to several hundred virii. That is why there is no vaccine, you'd have to get 200 vaccines.
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 04:54:23 pm »

Just in case it wasn't clear from Mith's post, this "cancer vaccine" is actually a vaccine for the Human Papilloma Virus, or HPV, which is a sexually transmitted disease responsible for a very large percentage of cervical cancer cases.  I'm pleased that Texas is taking this step, and hope more states follow.
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2007, 07:44:45 am »

I remain ambivalent. First of all, I'm slightly surprised that such a measure can be taken in a country known for its obsession with its citizens' individual rights. What if someone refuses the vaccine, say, on religious grounds? And what about (long-term) side effects? It's a relatively new medicine - maybe someone would rather take their chances, so to speak.

Secondly,who determines what stuff we get vaccinated for? There's vaccines for all kinds of lethal stuff that are neither mandatory nor frequently applied.

Thirdly, as always in such cases, I seriously question Big Pharma's role in all this.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing and that you guys shouldn't do this - I'd say, for example, smallpox vaccination was a resounding success back in the day. I'm just saying we should perhaps be a little more sceptical rather than full of uncritical praise for such initiatives.
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2007, 11:54:55 am »

I remain ambivalent. First of all, I'm slightly surprised that such a measure can be taken in a country known for its obsession with its citizens' individual rights. What if someone refuses the vaccine, say, on religious grounds? And what about (long-term) side effects? It's a relatively new medicine - maybe someone would rather take their chances, so to speak.
They could not be forced to take the vaccine if they objected on religious grounds.  I'm pretty sure there's already a lot of legal precedent on that.

As far as long-term side effects go, there's always the possibility that there are some we don't yet know about, but the FDA has very high standards for what new drugs can be put on the market, and this vaccine faced strong opposition from the religious right, which raised the bar even higher.
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2007, 12:31:13 pm »

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but the FDA has very high standards for what new drugs can be put on the market

HA HA HA.

There are a lot of well-known figures in government, fmr. FDA, and the pharma industry that will argue with that. Everyone knows the FDA is seriously broken, even the head of the FDA is famous for using those exact words. A lot of this was brought to light with the whole drug trial scandals this summer, but apparently its been going on forever. The real problem is, the conflict of interest is so embedded within the FDA drug trials that there needs to be real sweeping reform. That takes money, time, and political will; none of which will be available until after the election or until some new kind of "killer" drug comes out.

All that aside, even if the FDA is broken, its certainly better then having nothing at all. Also, drug prices are a tough cookie to crack. On the one hand it can take billions of dollars for to develop a new drug. Billions more are spent on essentially dead ends. That cost has to be recouped somewhere. Generally those that are insured get it at a discount (collective bargaining) and those that are uninsured pay the remainder. Another fun note is that there is very little money in stuff like aids, cancer, or even malaria. Much more can be made on the consumer level. Stuff like diet pills, wrinkle cream etc., get a lot more play because of who can afford expensive drug treatments. In a perfect world, these designer drugs could subsidize things like aids research, but that’s not really what happens. Really, all in all, I’m a lot less suspicious of a cancer vaccine then I would be of a cholesterol inhibitor, or a weight loss pill, simply because of the economics behind it.

As for the new shot in general, sure, great, go for it. Small pox, Polio, etc., all nice things not to have around.
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2007, 02:30:18 pm »

While the FDA is kind of broken, and has gotten a lot worse under Bush's tenure than it used to be, it is still a lot more restrictive than most other nations.
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2007, 06:25:15 pm »

Speaking of Cancer Research...
"A small, non-toxic molecule may soon be available as an inexpensive treatment for many forms of cancer, including lung, breast and brain tumours, say University of Alberta researchers.


But there's a catch: the drug isn't patented, and pharmaceutical companies may not be interested in funding further research if the treatment won't make them a profit.
"
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2007, 08:39:07 pm »

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I remain ambivalent. First of all, I'm slightly surprised that such a measure can be taken in a country known for its obsession with its citizens' individual rights. What if someone refuses the vaccine, say, on religious grounds?

To enter public schools (and most private) and most colleges you must demonstrate you have had a large number of vaccines.  Requiring vaccines is nothing new at all.
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2007, 09:18:12 pm »

While the FDA is kind of broken, and has gotten a lot worse under Bush's tenure than it used to be, it is still a lot more restrictive than most other nations.

QFT. Want proof? One word: thalidomide.



It seems to me that the people who have a profound problem with this vaccine are at odds with it because it concerns a sexually-transmitted disease. Perhaps their thinking is that one who gets it deserves it; I'm not sure. In any case, I cannot think of a calculus that would rather have women dying of cervical cancer than address a disease, based soley on its method of transmission.

Although it is likely only tangentially related here, it is against the law in America to have tuberculosis and not undergo treatment for it.
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« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 01:57:12 am »

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I remain ambivalent. First of all, I'm slightly surprised that such a measure can be taken in a country known for its obsession with its citizens' individual rights. What if someone refuses the vaccine, say, on religious grounds?

To enter public schools (and most private) and most colleges you must demonstrate you have had a large number of vaccines.  Requiring vaccines is nothing new at all.

Except that most of the vaccines required are contagious easily airborn tranmitted or from others not washing hands, bad sewage systems, etc (see Polio, measles, etc).  I.E. you just get them from "living".  HPV (unless I'm mistaken) is only tranmitted sexually (mouth, oral, anal, etc).  So for the woman to compare Polio to HPV is a little off-base.  Just like you don't get aids from contaminated water, you won't get HPV.

To top that off, there is currently only the one vaccine available from Merck (although a second company is pending) that is FDA approved.  And the FDA is possibly more corrupt than Chicago politics (and that's saying a lot).

So IMO, to REQUIRE the vaccine that's only available from 1 monopoly company for children for a sexually tranmitted disease, when on top it the company (Merck) is POURING money into the group and into the legislators who are sponsoring the bills just begs far too many questions...

here's an interesting article from http://evilslutopia.blogspot.com/2007/01/gardasil.html  text is reprinted below.  Lots of good points.  Check out the one about the costs.  If the health providers are picking up the costs and sales are at $70 million and going to explode if this is mandated, who do you think will pick up the cost?  That's right, you and me, because it's crap like this that causes our insurance premiums to go up 20-30% EVERY SINGLE YEAR (I see it from the employer side, believe me it's absolutely retarded).


10 Things You Might Not Know About Gardasil


1. The vaccine only decreases your chances of getting cervical cancer, it doesn’t eliminate the risk.


Straight from gardasil.com:

    “HPV Types 16 and 18 cause 70% of cervical cancer cases.

    GARDASIL may not fully protect everyone and does not prevent all types of cervical cancer, so it is important to continue regular cervical cancer screenings.”[1]

Merck is upfront with this information; they don't try to hide it or spin it. But with all of the media coverage and information floating around about the "100% effective cancer vaccine", it's helpful to remember that Gardasil is only 100% effective at doing what it is supposed to do, which is preventing certain specific types of HPV, not preventing all cervical cancer.


2. Even without the vaccine, the number of cervical cancer cases is trending downward and has been for years. (This is only true in the U.S.; worldwide it is one of the top cancer killers of women because women in many other countries have limited access to Pap tests and other health services.)

The Gardasil commercials refer to "thousands of women" being diagnosed with cervical cancer in the U.S. each year, which is true, but they don't put that number into context.

    “Cervical cancer has gone from being one of the top killers of American women to not even being on the top 10 list. This year cervical cancer will represent just 1 percent of the 679,510 new cancer cases and 1 percent of the 273,560 anticipated cancer deaths among American women. By contrast, some 40,970 women will die of breast cancer and 72,130 will die of lung cancer.

    According to the American Cancer Society, "'Between 1955 and 1992, the number of cervical cancer deaths in the United States dropped by 74 percent.' Think about it: 74 percent.”[2]


So Merck wants parents to have their pre-teen and teenage daughters vaccinated. But if current trends continue, by the time these girls are old enough to be at risk, how big will the risk really be? Check out the government's statistics on cervical cancer for yourself at the National Cancer Institute website.



3. Gardasil is one of the most expensive vaccines ever, at about $360 for the series of three shots, plus the cost of doctor visits. Call me cynical, but I can’t help but think about how much money Merck stands to make from this if they can manage to convince all young women and all parents of young girls that this vaccine is a necessity. And while we’re at it, call me a conspiracy theorist too for wondering if maybe Merck just might be exaggerating the cervical cancer risk by a lot in order to scare young women and mothers into buying their product.

    "'We're seeing a fairly remarkable uptake of Gardasil,' said Rick Haupt of Merck & Co., which reported sales of the vaccine had reached $70 million, exceeding analysts' projections.”[3]

Gardasil is a cash cow. The revenue stream is big now, with the potential to get much bigger. This is especially important for Merck, which is still dealing with the scandal surrounding their pain medication Vioxx, which they had to withdraw from the market in 2004 after it was found to increase the long-term risk of heart attack and stroke in patients who took it regularly. Thousands of lawsuits have been filed by former Vioxx patients. Vaccines like Gardasil are needed to provide the constant stream of cash that will help Merck to recover from Vioxx.

    “Merck, struggling since the 2004 recall of its blockbuster pain pill Vioxx, has staked its turnaround in part on vaccines. They accounted for $1.1 billion of its $22 billion in revenue last year, or 5 percent, the highest share since at least 1995." [4]

4. While we're on the subject of liability, lawsuits, and profits, there's another angle to consider. If Merck can get state governments to put Gardasil on their lists of vaccines that are required for schoolchildren, it can become a part of a federal vaccine liability program. Meaning that Merck will not be liable if Gardasil turns out to be harmful some time in the future. [5] [6] [7]

If I felt like being cynical again, I might think that this is one of the reasons why a vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease is being marketed not just to young women who are having sex or are going to become sexually active soon, but also to girls as young as nine. There’s a hell of a lot more stability and profitability in a required childhood vaccine than there would be in an optional vaccine meant only for young women.

It's important to remember that no matter how many feel-good, we're all in this fight together and we're just doing this out of the goodness of our hearts ad campaigns they run, drug companies are not non-profit organizations. They are in this to make money and a lot of it, and while that doesn't mean that all prescription drugs are harmful and horrible or that all doctors are evil, it does mean that when it comes to our health, we probably shouldn't take anything at face value.


5. There have been no long-term studies done on the effect of the vaccine after 5-10 or more years, and testing on young girls has been extremely limited.


    “Merck has tested the cervical cancer vaccine in clinical trials of more than 20,000 women (about half of them got the shot). The health of the subjects was followed for about three and a half years on average. But fewer than 1,200 girls under 16 got the shots, among them only about 100 9-year-olds, Merck officials said, and the younger girls have been followed for only 18 months." [8]

If parents are expected to take their daughters to get a series of expensive immunizations, wouldn’t it be nice if they had any idea at all about what effects these girls might have to deal with 5 or 10 years down the line?

If you're wondering what the rush was, part of the answer could be patents. When a company's patent on a particular drug expires, that's when generic versions of the drug can be developed and released into the market, which obviously drives the price and the profits of the original drug way down. Merck's patent on the extremely profitable cholesterol drug Zocor expired in June of this year, and Gardasil is one of the new drugs being counted on to bridge Merck's financial gap. According to the FDA, Merck filed an application for a patent extension for Gardasil on December 6th.

This CNN Money article has more info on Merck's financial past, present, and future.



6. It is unknown how long the immunity provided by Gardasil actually lasts.

    “Public health officials want to vaccinate girls early, before they become sexually active, even though it is not known how long the immunity will last.” [9]

    “Tests show that the vaccine lasts at least four years. Long-term results aren't known yet.” [10]


And straight from the FDA:

    “The duration of immunity following a complete schedule of immunization with GARDASIL has not been established.”[11]


So if I do decide that it’s worth the risks to my hypothetical nine year old and that I should go ahead and give her the vaccine, in the end I don’t even know if it will do her any good at all by the time she actually becomes sexually active.

I completely disagree with the people who are against this vaccine for “moral reasons” and claim that the vaccine will encourage young women to be promiscuous because their STD risk will be reduced. But I do have a problem with the fact Merck isn’t telling women that their immunity may only last for a few years. The women and girls who get the vaccine may base some of their future sexual choices on the assumption that they are protected, but by the time many of them become sexually active this may not be true anymore.



7. The studies done on Gardasil were not set up to investigate whether the vaccine itself has the potential to cause cancer.

    “GARDASIL has not been evaluated for the potential to cause carcinogenicity or genotoxicity.”[12]

car·cin·o·gen
n. Any substance or agent that tends to produce a cancer.


ge·no·tox·in
n. A chemical or other agent that damages cellular DNA, resulting in mutations or cancer.



8. Gardasil is one of many vaccines containing aluminum, and there is increasing evidence suggesting that aluminum-based vaccines can have harmful effects. Aluminum is a neurotoxin and the aluminum in vaccines can potentially reach the brain. Since the list of required childhood vaccines is only getting longer over time, children are being exposed to doses of aluminum that may exceed what their bodies are capable of managing. Aluminum in vaccines has been linked to a variety of neurological disorders, including Alzheimer’s, although a lot more research is needed. [13] [14]

It's also interesting to note that according to the FDA, Merck tested Gardasil along with the Hepatitis B vaccine (currently on the required list), to make sure that there were no negative effects to administering both vaccines during the same doctor's visit. The tests showed no apparent problems. [15] However, the hepatitis vaccine was the only one that was tested, so it is unknown whether any of the other required childhood vaccines could be potentially harmful when combined with Gardasil. There was also no information in any of the studies about what adding Gardasil to the required list would do to the cumulative aluminum levels in children's bodies.


9. Gardasil is only for women.


    "Boys would not have to be vaccinated, although they can get HPV. There are no HPV tests for men. The vaccine has not yet been tried on men." [16]

Men can get HPV. Men can give HPV to their partners. Men can get genital warts from HPV. Men can get cancer from HPV. (80% of HPV-related cancers affect women, but the other 20% include penile and anal cancers affecting men). [17]

So why wasn’t Gardasil tested on men, and why isn’t Merck funding PR campaigns to educate men about their HPV risk? Is it because they feel that there’s more of a stigma surrounding men’s sexual health, and that it would be more difficult to convince men and parents of boys of the risks? And as a result they wouldn’t be able to make nearly as much money off men as they will off women. (Sorry, there’s that cynical thing again.)

I think both men and women can take issue with this. Men, because their sexual health is really not being addressed here. They don't even have a test that can tell them whether they have HPV or not, so even if they want to be responsible about it there is only so much they can do. And women, because they are being asked to take full responsibility for HPV prevention. Women and girls are expected to take on all of the costs and the risks of this vaccine, and even if they do get vaccinated they could still be infected with HPV by a male partner who has been told that HPV isn't something that he needs to worry about.

From the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website:


    "There is no clear health benefit to knowing you have this virus—since HPV is unlikely to affect your health and cannot be treated. For most men, there would be no need to treat HPV, even if treatment were available— since it usually goes away on its own." [18]

Isn't it a little irresponsible (and sexist) to say there is no benefit to a male HPV test? Regardless of the possible health issues such as penile or anal cancer, isn't not infecting your unsuspecting partner also considered a benefit? Men are reassured that tests and treatment are unnecessary because their HPV infections will likely go away on their own, while the fact is that most women's HPV infections will go away on their own as well. [19]

Apparently, when Gardasil went before an FDA panel for approval, Merck asked the panel to approve the vaccine for boys also, even though they have not done the same amount of testing on boys as they have on girls.


    "Merck asked the committee to endorse vaccination of boys age 9 to 15, too. Urging them not to wait for ongoing studies to end, it said evidence shows Gardasil can prevent some male cancers and may slow the spread of sexually transmitted HPV.
    'By delaying three-plus years, we could have an additional 100,000 [cancer] cases that could have otherwise been avoided,' Barr told the committee. But panel members didn't vote on the request, calling the idea compelling but unproven."[20]


It seems to me that we need to spend more time researching HPV in men and boys, not less time. And it would be nice to feel like Merck was taking this issue seriously and not just tacking it on as a "me too" measure in order to get approval more quickly. On the flip side, it's a positive step that more research on HPV in men is now being done. Maybe they'll even change their minds and decide that it is worthwhile to develop a male HPV test after all. They could probably share a lab with the researchers who are hard at work on that male birth control pill we've been hearing about for years.


10. The bottom line: Don't get this vaccine just because your doctor/mom/sister/friend/a perky TV commercial told you to. But don’t not get it just because some chicks with a blog say that they aren’t going to. It’s your health, your decision. Do your own research and accept no guilt trips. My own mom wanted me to consider getting the vaccine (it is also being recommended for sexually active young women, even though it will probably do us—well, do evil slutty me anyway—no good), but she encouraged me to research it first, so I did. When I told her what I had found out, she agreed with my decision not to get it.

The Gardasil ad campaign is screaming at us to be “One Less”, meaning one less woman affected by cervical cancer. I’m all for that. I’m just going to try to reach that goal in my own way…as one less woman making an uninformed decision.
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« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2007, 03:05:43 am »

Quote
Requiring vaccines is nothing new at all.

Oh, right. I forgot that when things are "not new", they are automatically "good". Sorry.
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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 11:33:13 am »

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Requiring vaccines is nothing new at all.

Oh, right. I forgot that when things are "not new", they are automatically "good". Sorry.

I didn't say that.  It was in response to your "this seems odd for a country that prides itself on individual rights."  It is not odd--it is the norm.  I said nothing of my opinion of this law in this forum.  Please don't try to put words into my mouth
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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2007, 11:39:17 am »

Hah! You should be glad it's just words Razz
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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2007, 12:15:51 pm »

Except that most of the vaccines required are contagious easily airborn tranmitted or from others not washing hands, bad sewage systems, etc (see Polio, measles, etc).  I.E. you just get them from "living".   HPV (unless I'm mistaken) is only tranmitted sexually (mouth, oral, anal, etc).  So for the woman to compare Polio to HPV is a little off-base.  Just like you don't get aids from contaminated water, you won't get HPV.

I don't know about you but I certainly consider sexual contact a pretty fundamental part of "living".
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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2007, 04:15:53 pm »

Airborne diseases are transmitted by breathing. Sex can be had when it's safe and not had if it's not safe, whereas breathing is not something you can really put off.
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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2007, 06:22:21 pm »

Hah! You should be glad it's just words Razz
Yeah, Bram would probably give you HPV.
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2007, 12:37:59 pm »

The Virginia legislatorium is debating this very issue.  Both the House and the Senate have passed proposals arguing in favor of a mandatory vaccine, but the House bill allows parents to receive the information and op out anyway.
Edit: the vaccine in question would target all girls entering middle school.
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2007, 01:04:16 pm »

Airborne diseases are transmitted by breathing. Sex can be had when it's safe and not had if it's not safe, whereas breathing is not something you can really put off.
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2007, 06:52:57 pm »

The Texas law includes a provision that parents can sign to have their daughter exempted form the requirement, on religious grounds (presumably for any reason but I've seen it specifically address religious reasons). It's not MANDATORY - you can still be a bad parent* if you want, but you have to actively do something about it (sign your name on a form). The law also includes provisions for assistance with the cost of the vaccination for the uninsured or poor.

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« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2007, 12:11:59 am »

No, I'm fairly certain religious obligations are seperate from any obligation.  There are some religious that are against immunizations, transfusions, and other such things.
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« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2007, 01:15:28 am »

No, I'm fairly certain religious obligations are seperate from any obligation.  There are some religious that are against immunizations, transfusions, and other such things.
I don't even understand what you're saying here.
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« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2007, 01:58:12 pm »

Just because there exists an exemption for religious objection doesn't mean that anyone can exempt it.  Some people have religious objections to stuff like transfusions and immunizations, but not everyone can just exempt the vaccines.  I think they have to say "You can sign a 'Fuck you HPV Immunization' form and get out of it" in order to do just that.
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« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2007, 06:10:12 pm »

I think that requiring immunizations is probably a good idea.  Especially for HPV, which is ridiculously common.  What if a girl gets raped?  I'll bet she'll be happy that she was immunized against something, even if HPV is probably the least of your worries at that point. 

Honestly, I hope lots of girls get vaccinated against this, as I'd rather not catch it from any of them.

How about the Herpes vaccine?  I know they were testing that a few years ago... anyone know more about that, because I don't really want to catch that either.
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