The status of CS

[The Demon]

Go ahead and play Stifle. I'll cast Yawgmoth's Will.

And then I will stifle your storm trigger unless you are playing GAT?  As far as winning the counter wars against decks like flash well flash goes off so fast that you only really have force of will and a land often times.  Several times on MWS I was not able to cast a drain or do anything other then pitch cast force or play a stifle.  Yeah, I know that when you cast Yawg Will you will probably have the duress for my stifle, and since you resolved will I most likely either lost a counter war over that card, or I did not have the counters.  I am not saying stifle effects are the end all thing for this deck but I am willing to test it out, and if you happen to be correct then I will eat my crow. I just think it could be alot stronger then many others would think.

[Kowal]

It has been tested before.  A lot actually.  In fact, if you check the SCG deck database, you can probably find documented evidence of that.

It's awful.  Tormod's Crypt is just better, and as Roxas pointed out, so is REB.  Hell, considering what you're running the slot for, even Coffin Purge or Extirpate would be better, and neither of those are good enough to make the cut either.

As for Dry Slaver, that deck sucked.  Run Thirst for Knowledge, it's the best argument going for Control Slaver.

[Jank Golem]

I might have missed it but  I haven't seen any talk of Blood Moon. It seems like with the GAT and Stax becoming big Blood Moon would be a great answer, and CS could support it. I think there was a list that T8'ed awhile ago at SCG that ran Blood Moon, cutting black to support it. Black certainly helps the deck but Blood Moon offers some really strong disruption. Magus of the Moon would also be a possibility, but I dislike the fact it gets hit by creature hate.

[Implacable]

I don't like Magus of the Moon either, 'cause it's bad and stuff, but Blood Moon seems really solid.  I've also been talking with Fred (he actually brought it up with me over PM), and he thinks that it's very strong too.  It wrecks all the land-light and nonbasic-dependent decks of the format, which, when I think about it, are the format.  It shuts Mean Deck off from Red and Black, GAT off from everything, Bomberman off White, etc.  I could keep harping on, but I think that it's pretty clear how good this card is.

[Aardshark]

but Blood Moon seems really solid. . . . It shuts Mean Deck off from Red and Black . . .

I'm not saying its not solid, but last I checked Blood Moon doesn't cut anyone off from red.

[EKM_Ichorid]

I've been testing a Control Slaver build with Trinket Mage and a toolkit to help it control Ichorid, Flash, and GAT. It's still not running too smooth, but I'm hoping I can fix that.

[seer]

I fail to see how people can say CS is losing its power/ speed/ whatev in a format where Bomberman is a top tier deck. Honestly, Bman is so slow! They resolve 3-4cc sorceries in order to win and revolve around the graveyard. They play a surprisingly clunky deck that in all honesty, if the combo is removed- is a bad fish deck.

Despite what it seems like, the format is deceptively slow. The Mean Deck preached about turn 3 protected wins. Turn 3?! Grow doesn't really win until usually turn 3-4... and thats if opponents don't do a thing. Flash is much too clunky and vulnerable to hate. What else is there? What is is truly fast enough to rule Slaver out?

I realize, not many have actually ruled Slaver out completely, but I've heard it plenty. They say Mana Drain is dead after Gifts got hit... And with it went Slaver... Yet... We have Bman making multiple top 8s?

Slaver is a good deck... It just needs a competent pilot. I'm sure Demars/ whoever will pick Slaver back up, tweak it, and continue doing well.

Ironically, I feel that the format is slow right when on the surface it appears to be very fast. Why is this? Well I believe the root cause is Ichorid's distortion of the metagame. Why is bomberman suddenly not just viable but tier1? Well what other deck in the format can so easily get out Tormod's Crypt in game1, without devoting more than one slot to the card? In addition, bomberman is able to "combo out" and win in the span of a single turn, meaning that ichorid can be finished off quickly if the game goes past the initial few turns.

However, this does not change the fact that bomberman is a quite clunky combo/fish deck that happens to run Mana Drain. GAT is a deck that seems to have some issues but at the very least should be problematic for ritual based combo decks with its extensive and powerful disruption package backed up by a consistent clock. It seems like CS might very well be a good deck to play if you can avoid the ichorid/long decks in the first few rounds of a tournament. I have not liked CS in about a year but now it might be time to run it again.

[tomjoad]

An argument for Magus of the Moon over Blood Moon: Magus cannot be Duressed away. Since Duresses are probably even more common than Merchant Scrolls, that could be big.

However, assuming that the Smmenen GAT list catches on, I suspect most GAT players will fetch their basic Island as soon as feasible, letting them chain tutors for removal/bounce for whatever Moon you opt to play.

[squeegee]

I've been testing a Control Slaver build with Trinket Mage and a toolkit to help it control Ichorid, Flash, and GAT. It's still not running too smooth, but I'm hoping I can fix that.

Umm, isn't that called bomberman??

[EKM_Ichorid]

I've been testing a Control Slaver build with Trinket Mage and a toolkit to help it control Ichorid, Flash, and GAT. It's still not running too smooth, but I'm hoping I can fix that.

Umm, isn't that called bomberman??

Since when did Bomberman run Welder, Slaver, or even any red?

I think Trinket Mage should be looked at in other decks, as it is a great control utility that helps beat early, a problem I have found with CS.

[Mindriders]

@ EKM Ichorid:
Interesting idea about trinket mages, a Hybrid of CS & Bomber... May I see your decklist that you use them in? Or at least what do you get rid of when you bring them in...

[oneofchaos]

I personally prefer magus do to it's ability to win games, slowly but surely.  Blood moon can be duressed, which is crucial at this current state of vintage.  It provides a needed win condition while locking your opponent up.  Blood moon may do the same, but your forced to find an alternate way to win, (IE: not off your opponents inability to do anything).

[MirariKnight]

I've been thinking how good the Blood Moon effects are and they work really well in here.
This is the list I came up with, given I have no experience with the deck so rip it apart as you please:
Mana:
5 Mox
1 Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
5 Blue Fetch
4 Volcanic Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine/Library
4 Island

Creatures:
3 Goblin Welder
4 Magus of the Moon (I like it better than Blood Moon because it applies pressure to back up the color screw, and it can't be duressed)
1 Platinum Angel

Counters and Such:
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Echoing Truth

The Rest:
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Tinker
1 Mindslaver
1 Trinisphere? Not sure what this should be

It probably has too many counters but the 1 mana counters that can be cast with Magus out are nice. I'm not sure that Trinisphere is the right call over something like fitting in a few Sphere of Resistance or something similar. This deck should have no problem functioning under a Magus either because there are 4 basic lands, which I might want to up to 5.

[cophos]

@MirariKnight:
Without addressing any of the archetypes inherent flaws I'll add a couple of points:
- I really like your straightforward approach of the deck. Not much I can add here..
- I'd cut the Trinisphere for another Slaver. The deck's not suited to incorporate a Card like Trinisphere. You simply do not have any complementary pieces of disruption to support the Sphere. (Even if you resolve a first turn Trinisphere, something that won't happen to often, I'd shouldn't bother your opponent to0 much, because you don't have any waste effects (besides the single strip mine) etc. to build up any kind of a lock. The Sphere'll basically hinder you as much as your opponent.)
- I would add another basic Island. (Or cut the random Mine/Library for it.)
- As you pointed out yourself you're probably playing to many counterspells. Try to integrate a Mystical Tutor and a couple Merchant Scrolls instead. (This will grant ya a much better access to Tinker, the sole Echoing Truth and give you some kind of an additional Drawengine. (Scroll, Tutor -> Recall.) The Scroll's aren't an auto-inclusion, the Mystical's a must though.
- Your Welderplan seems somewhat weakened. Magus of the Moon doesn't really provide an alternate win condition, simply because it beats rather slowly. So you'd better strengthen your main goal. (I would think about adding a Tormod's Crypt and another artifact fatty. (Prob. Trike.))
- Despite being not the hottest card right know, I'd try to fit in a couple of Mox Monkeys. They bear great synergy with the Blood Moon effect and the fact, that they can block Slivers, or chump a tog or a dryad and strenghten your little aggro plan shouldn't be neglected either.