[Deck] WTF

[beder]

Hi,

Note : sorry for my non perfect English, message from France.

I tried during last weeks to succeed in using efficiently in a same deck my 2 favourites ideas, that are imo pretty efficient considering the current metagame :
- "efficient mana denial",
- "abuse welder".
After some thinkings and testings, thinkings and testings again, I came up with a build that is surprisingly efficient even if it may look a bit strange.

As a fish deck, the deck tries to impose its tempo. It uses a nice drawing engine and has a strong finish with big robots.
Here is the list:

// Lands
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Ghost Quarter
   
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
   
    3 Wooded Foothills
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Taiga
    2 Bloodstained Mire   
    1 Barbarian Ring
   
// Creatures
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
   
    4 Goblin Welder
    2 Gorilla Shaman   
   
    2 Sundering Titan
    1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    1 Duplicant

// Spells
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Black Lotus   
    1 Mox Sapphire   
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Sol Ring

    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Fastbond   

    4 Stifle
    2 Gamble
    2 Fire/Ice
    2 Ancient Grudge
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Time Walk
   
// In the deck, here are the cards that are part of the mana denial package

4 Stifle
3 Crucible

4 Wasteland
1 Strip
1 Ghost Quarter

4 Chalice of void
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Ancient Grudge

     + Sundering when weldered

// Drawing, digging and searching
Of course, the 4 Bazaar of Baghdad + 4 Squee is the heart of the drawing engine. The synergy is evident with Crucible of Worlds and Ancient Grudge.
Gamble is really good in this deck. Given that lots of cards can be put in graveyard and still be used, the drawback is not too bad.

// The kill
Draw and dig for mana disruption, when possible put a robot in the graveyard and bring it back into play with welder.
Of course, phyrexian can also be put into play directly with stifle.

// Some remarks
The deck runs a lot of 1CC spell and so can operate efficiently with only 1 mana. As a consequence, it is possible at the same time to play disruption – often land - and to set up your game plan through your drawing engine – bazaar.

// Some questions still remaining
- Replace one crucible with one life from the loan.
- Replace one wasteland with the second ghost quarter
- Try to add 2 Mishra Workshop
- Cards I am thinking about : Zuran Orb, Regrowth, Crop rotation and Maze of Ith

// Matchups
- Stax and Co : this matchup is really favourable. 4 welders, 2 shamans, 2 Ancient Grudge, 6 strips effects and 3 crucible maindeck are a lot of threats. Then, this deck doesn’t play a lot of spell and the ones that are played are really chip. So spheres are not so painful.
Finally, Fire/Ice and Barbarian Ring help you deal with Magus and Metal worker.
One point to take care of : chalice for 1 is a real danger for this deck, even if ancient grudge can deal with it.

- Gush decks with creatures : the key for this matchup are the stifle. The mana denial plan has to be very efficient in order to prevent them from activating their drawing engine. Then, if you have enough mana, it is also possible to try the chalice for 2. This does not hurt you a lot but kills lot of their cards.
I didn’t test this matchup enough to say if it is a favourable matchup. I would say this is an even one.

- Storm decks : chalice and stifle are very efficient against those decks. Especially because more and more storm decks do no longer use full instant mana accelerators package - dark or cabal ritual. During my testings, this was a favourable matchup. But I didn’t test against all the different builds (tropical, superlong, ….)

- Control : mana denial plan plus welder is the key of that matchup. This should be an even matchup.

- Oath : this is a terrible matchup. Except the mana denial plan, you don’t have lot of solution maindeck… Chalice for 2 is a nice threat but is often too late… Use sideboard.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I keep testing this deck and will keep you in touch.

Bye

[Wagner]

Nice deck, reminds a little of Cerebral assassin but with disruption this time.


One quick note

Barbarian Ring help you deal with Magus and Metal worker.

Metalworker is at it's best in the early turns where you probably won't have threshold and Magus will turn the Ring into a mountain.


Also, like Cerebral Assassin did, if your plan is to Weld Titans, you should probably play a couple or all pain lands.



Also, way to go with Gamble, fits in this deck perfectly either to get a Welder target of simply to get Squee and start digging.

[meadbert]

As long as you are running Gambles, 1 Life from the Loam is pretty good.  Dredging it helps you find Bazaar and more Squees all at once.

I played a deck similar to this for a while and found that Ensnaring Bridge was amazing.  This was a few years about before Tyrant Oath, so Ensnaring Bridge was an out versus Oath.  Also it really helped against Ichorid and an early DSC.

A somewhat problematic matchup can be Fish since Fish does not needs much mana.  Mishra's Factory can really help there.  Also Factory allows you to weld in everything over time.

Root Maze is really good against GAT and good against Storm combo.  It might be an interesting sideboard card.

Ray of Revelation could be strong against Oath since you run Gamble.  The only problem is coming up with white mana.  Perhaps a token Plateau out of the board.
Ray of Revelation will also be helpful against Leyline of the Void which may show up a lot post board.

Null Rod might be better than Chalice for you.  Generally decks that do not want to play Chalice@1 are better off using Null Rod.  I would say this is one of those decks.  Although Rod shuts off your own Moxen, you can still Weld them out for other stuff.

[feyd]

does null rod stop playersfrom tapping moxen, black lotus or does it only stop players from using abilities like equip, stuff like arcbound ravagers ability, or things like metalworkers ability?

[Wagner]

Although Rod shuts off your own Moxen, you can still Weld them out for other stuff.

[rkmancer]

Since you attack your opponent's manabase, will couples of sphere will be fit in this deck?
It'll be hard to cast something when you're running out of mana and your spell's cc is being increased. .

[Meddling Mike]

There's already a deck called WTF...See Jacob Orlove about 4 years ago for details.

[Spacebalzz]

Cool deck; however, is the inclusion of green really necessary?  The only green card in the deck is Fastbond (and Ancient Grudge).   I understand that Fastbond is straight busted, but is it so busted to justify a third color by itself?

If green is a viable inclusion, it would seem that Life from the Loam would be almost automatic.  Also, what about ol' Tarmogoyf?  He's just such a house with Bazaar that his absence seems fishy.  Perhaps 2 Goyfs in the main as opposed to the grudges?  It seems like there's already enough artifact hate with the Welder/Monkey duo.

What about 1 Sword of Fire and Ice?  Monkey/Welder with SOFI for the win?

Also, perhaps -1 Titan, +1 Platz in the MD.  Platz generally just wins game 1 vs. Ichorid, which is hypothetically the match if you have Leylines in the board.

Lastly, playing with Gamble in Vintage is so intense it makes me want to kick my mom right in the face.

Some thoughts,

-Matt

[beder]

I will try to answer few questions

Null Rod might be better than Chalice for you.  Generally decks that do not want to play Chalice@1 are better off using Null Rod.  I would say this is one of those decks.  Although Rod shuts off your own Moxen, you can still Weld them out for other stuff.

I tried null rod and finally came back to chalice. The main point is that null rod cost 2. Given that this deck is really not fully powered – cause it doesn’t need it – and that it needs a bazaar online as soon as possible, null rod can often been played only turn 3. And you have to tap all, so stifle cannot be used… That’s mainly the reason why I prefer chalice. I can put it on board freely and keep my mana denial plan with waste or stifle. If moxen are already on board, then shaman and grudges do the job. Then it is also a welder target that can be used turn 2 –when welder is casted turn one.
Another point for chalice is that depending of the situation, I can set it to 1 or 2.
For instance, during some games, I was close to set a lock – crucible and waste – with a welder online, then I set it to 1. Even if it stopped lots of my spells, I was still able to proceed thanks to my lands and thanks to welder. Bazaar helps me to find some cards I can use and discard the ones that are countered by chalice.

Then another point : i tried survival of the fittest in this deck - with a platz in the robot package and a sylvan safekeeper. Survival is extermely syngergistic with the whole deck. I finally cut it cause it is 2CC and so I was generally not able to play it until turn 4 or 5 - not enough mana. That leads me to this conclusion : except if it is an artifact or a "nice discardable card", this deck has lot of difficulties in using efficiently spell which CC is more than 1. Your first turns are always made of "play a land for strip effect, play a bazaar, keep blue open for stifle effect or play a 1CC red creature". After 3 or 4 turns, it is quite common to have only 1 mana available.

Mishra's Factory can really help there.  Also Factory allows you to weld in everything over time.

Yes it can and it does I used to play 1 mishra - in place of 1 wasteland. I am thinking about it right now. How to insert 2 mishra in this deck, so that I got 2 nice blockers -or even finishers.

Since you attack your opponent's manabase, will couples of sphere will be fit in this deck?

This idea was tried but I didn’t make that choice cause stifle and sphere are not working well together. Especially in a deck that has to operate with really few mana – cause of bazaar and waste effects, you don’t often play a real land during your first turns. Then again, it cost 2 (see explanations for null rod)

is the inclusion of green really necessary?  The only green card in the deck is Fastbond (and Ancient Grudge).   I understand that Fastbond is straight busted, but is it so busted to justify a third color by itself?

That’s a real point. I thought about it a lot : do I need the 3rd color… Right now I am on it but if I succeed in finding useful cards that can be efficiently discarded in red or blue, then I perhaps wouldn’t need green…

What about 1 Sword of Fire and Ice?  Monkey/Welder with SOFI for the win?

I like the sofi idea, didn't think about it. Have to try it, it can have its place in this deck

Also, perhaps -1 Titan, +1 Platz in the MD.  Platz generally just wins game 1 vs. Ichorid, which is hypothetically the match if you have Leylines in the board.

The robot package can be modified, I think it is really metagame dependant. Used to be 1 sundering and 1 platz. Right now, it is 2 sunderings and 2 platz in side (and 1 more duplicant in side).

Lastly, playing with Gamble in Vintage is so intense it makes me want to kick my mom right in the face.

I love gamble, even if it is sometimes a pain in the ass, it is really often a damn good card.

[beder]

Hi all,

After some more testings, here is the latest build of this deck

// Lands
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    3 Wooded Foothills
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Taiga
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Mishra's Factory

// Creatures
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    4 Goblin Welder
    2 Sundering Titan
    1 Triskelion
    2 Gorilla Shaman
    1 Duplicant

// Spells
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Gamble
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Black Lotus
    4 Chalice of the Void
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Ancestral Recall
    4 Stifle
    1 Time Walk
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Fastbond
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Lava Dart
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Powder Keg


// The changes
- Remove 1 Ancient Grudge : given the artifact hate available maindeck, 2 ancient grudge was too much
- Remove the barbarian ring
- Add 2 mishra factories : helps me deal with fish and other deck with creature (+ synergic with welder)
- Replace the 2 Fire/Ice with 1 lava dart and 1 Powder Keg :
Lava dart is highly synergistic with the whole deck and Powder Ked helps me to deal with tokens or 2CC creature.
- Replace the phyrexian dreadnought with a triskellion : phyrexian was rarely useful, it was too random. Triskellion is always useful and very effective when it comes to prevent big creature from attacking or kill little creatures (+ synergistic with welder)
- Replace 1 crucible with 1 Life from the loam : works pretty well with bazaar and sometimes, the 1CC difference between crucible and life is decisive.

// Some matchup updates
-   Flash : the deck works very well, it has lots of little creatures –useful against the silver build- and stifle is pretty useful. Then, chalice prevent them from using the 0CC creature tutor or counter.
-   Gush+creature : I played 7 games and won 5 of them. The point is : I am pretty sure that the player I played against were not really gush experts. So I have to keep testing.
-   Non artefact aggro : I lost many games before the changes I made. With the add of the 2 mishra factories and the triskellion, it is a lot more efficient.
-   Control : really an even matchup. The matchup is really close and the games are really long. It is a long term fight, me trying to destroy their lands and succeed in activating a welder, them trying to succeed in developing their board and drawing cards… Even matchup.