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Author Topic: Vintage Championships Report and Deck Discussion -- Top Eight  (Read 6412 times)
The Atog Lord
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« on: August 13, 2011, 04:55:42 pm »

Vintage Worlds Top Eight Report
Rich Shay

The story behind the 75

As a graduate student, I don't have the chance to play as much Vintage as I would like. Being a grad student is a very intense time commitment, leaving less Magic time in general. And living in Pittsburgh, I can't get to many Vintage events. It was different when Paul lived here -- he would often drive to remote events. But I'm not the world's greatest driver, and driving isn't my favorite activity anyway. The result is that Vintage isn't something I can do as often as I would like. But this, in turn, meant that I wanted to have something powerful for the Vintage Championships.

My teammates on R+D and I had quite a large thread going on our boards in anticipation of the Championships. We tried some Oath builds, but none of them were quite as good as we needed them to be. And we tried different Gush configurations, but they were often inconsistent, and often collapsed under the weight of dead draws.

We found that many Gush decks suffer from a few common problems. When they try to go off with Fastbond, they too often encounter dead cards that don't help them go off. Or they gush into more land, and lose as a result of that. Or they work great when hands come together, but are halted by a timely disruption spell, and lose as the opponent drags the game out into the mid-game.

For a little while, it appeared to us that Gush wasn't as strong as we hoped it would be. But then, I saw a Gush list by Jesse Martin. And I realized that Jesse had done a lot of things correctly.

// Jesse Martin
// TMD Open 14.5
// First Place

// Control
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
2 Duress
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor

// Draw
3 Preordain
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Gush

// Search
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor

// Other Broken Cards
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Timetwister
1 Time Walk
2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

// Win Conditions
1 Tendril's of Agony
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Mind's Desire

// Mana
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emrald
1 Black Lotus

// Land
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
3 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Yixalid Jailer
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Misdirection
1 Duress
1 Virtue's Ruin

Jesse's list made me reevaluate the ability of Gush to compete in modern Vintage. It played only 23 mana sources, greatly reducing the number of times that you flood out and increasing your ability to draw real cards as the game progresses. It was only three colors, which I liked. Despite having so few mana sources, I wanted to play a deck with a very solid manabase, as my teammate Brad always advocates.

And above all, I noted that Jesse was not playing Time Vault. I was skeptical of this particular ``innovation.'' After all, isn't Vault/Key the best way to win games in Vintage? It only costs three mana, and it wins out of nowhere. But, as much as I like the combo, I have a rule that I try to follow when testing a new, promising deck -- I play the deck for a bit without making any alterations. This way, I might learn something new from the deck's design. (An exception to this rule is when a deck has 61 cards. That's just always wrong).

R+D continued to work on this list, and several others. We did indeed have a Gush/Bob list, but it was never at a point where I was happy with it. It did too much damage to itself. And, given the metagame I was expecting, I wanted a deck with the ability to fight in the early game and the late game. Gush Bob, at least our build of it, couldn't reliably survive into the late game.

As Gencon drew closer, it was appearing that a Gush list following the setup of Jesse Martin was the deck to play. The final innovation, that pulled the deck together, was Mental Misstep. I was playtesting against Micah Greenbaum, who was staying at my apartment for the Star City in Pittsburgh and then until Gencon. And both Micah and I had Mental Missteps in our Vintage decks. While we quickly concluded that the Oath deck Micah was trying wasn't going to be winning any Magic events, we both marveled at how good Mental Misstep had been for both of us. I remember, whenever I would lose a game, thinking how Mental Misstep would have won me the game. And so, we continued testing Mental Misstep.

The decklist

In the end, here is the list that I played for Vintage Championships. It incorporates some excellent innovations from Jesse Martin, from testing with Micah, and especially many key insights from my teammates on R+D.

// Land
2  Flooded Strand
3  Island
1  Library of Alexandria
4  Misty Rainforest
2  Tropical Island
3  Underground Sea

// Mana
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Pearl
1  Mox Ruby
1  Mox Sapphire
1  Black Lotus
1  Mana Crypt
1  Sol Ring

// Win Conditions
1  Blightsteel Colossus
1  Tendrils of Agony
1  Tinker

// Drawing
1  Ancestral Recall
1  Brainstorm
4  Gush
3  Preordain

// Tutoring
1  Demonic Tutor
1  Mystical Tutor
1  Vampiric Tutor
1  Merchant Scroll

// Control
1  Duress
4  Force of Will
2  Hurkyl's Recall
3  Mana Drain
4  Mental Misstep

// Other
1  Fastbond
2  Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1  Regrowth
1  Time Walk
1  Timetwister
1  Yawgmoth's Will

Sideboard:
2  Dismember
1  Duress
1  Flusterstorm
2  Hurkyl's Recall
3  Nature's Claim
2  Nihil Spellbomb
1  Pithing Needle
1  Praetor's Grasp
1  Ravenous Trap
1  Yixlid Jailer

Now, an explanation of some of the card choices.

Maindeck cards

As mentioned above, the choice to play a light mana count was deliberate. This enabled the deck to go off more consistently, and to draw better off the top. The primary possible harm this might cause would be against Workshop decks. But there, the goal was to try and win relatively quickly anyway. With so mana Draft Cats expected, the philosophy of sitting back and making land drops wasn't very appealing anymore. This is not the age of Trinisphere.

The Library of Alexandria is basically the card in the deck of which I am least sure. I'd be tempted to keep it in the deck for now, mostly because my fourth Underground Sea was stolen. But otherwise, it might be better to have that sea instead of the Library. There are many decks in the environment when sitting back on Library just isn't feasible -- decks like Workshop and Oath and Ichorid.

There are a few cards in the deck that are secretly combo pieces, but they don't appear to be. These cards are the Preordains, Regrowth, and Merchant Scroll. I know that Meandeck has been advocating Preordain, and I like it. I'm not even playing Ponder, given my experience testing with the deck. Having Regrowth, Merchant Scroll, and the set of Preordains makes the deck much more likely to combo off and win once it starts. Many prior builds of Gush that I tried had difficulty sustaining their combo once they started going off. These cards help to provide more reliable combo turns. But better yet, they're also quite good when playing a late game. And this, the ability for the deck to function both as a swift combo deck and as a late-game control deck, was extremely important to me over the weekend.

Next, the control package. The double Hurkyl's Recall is there because, after a lot of testing, I have concluded that it is the card you most want against Workshop decks most of the time. The games that you win because you can cycle Rebuild won't make up for the games you lose because you can't cast Rebuild. Likewise, I found that having two Huryl's maindeck would improve my deck against Workshops better than having a single Huryl's and a worse bounce spell. And, no doubt, those bounce spots are mostly there for Workshop decks anyway. So we might as well play the best two cards for that matchup that we can. And Hurky's even helps with Storm. Another area where Hurkyl's shines is against Workshop decks playing Metamorphs. Suppose you Tinker and get a Blightsteel. The opponent Metamorphs your Blightsteel. Which bounce spell do you want? Not Rebuild. Not Chain of Vapor, either. No, the card you want is Hurkyl's Recall.

I've already discussed Mental Misstep. But I'll reiterate. This card is the real deal. I could type out a list of all the great Vintage cards that cost only a single mana. But I'm sure you can think of a perfectly good list on your own. A better idea is for you to count the one-ofs in a typical Blue Vintage list. There tend to be a lot -- and for just about any of them, hitting them for two life is a very favorable trade.

Another thing about Mental Misstep that may not be as obvious to those who haven't played much Legacy is how it lets you slip past the early game and into the mid game. In Blue decks, there are many ways to end the game quickly. But except for Tinker, many of these ways require something that can be hit by a Mental Misstep. And, as I'll describe below, this is a deck that really is alright with dragging the game into the mid game.

I know that it won't take much to convince you that Tinker and Blightsteel Colossus are worth including. But what really tipped the scales in their favor was the Workshop matchup. Having Blightsteel in the deck made a huge difference, even with plenty of Metamorphs running around.

Finally, Jace and Mana Drain. More innovations from Jesse Martin. On the surface, these just appear to be potent Magic cards, if slightly out of place in a Gush deck. But in reality, these five cards help define what the deck is and what it can do. These are cards which, very fast starts aside, are not amazing in the early game. Nor are they great for going off on the second turn. But what they do provide is inevitability.

Many people look at a deck, see that it has Fastbond, and conclude that it is trying to assemble a quick win in the first few turns. Indeed, even the Meandeck list with Bob is forced to be on that plan, since otherwise Bob will kill his controller. But this deck is actually designed to be able to drag opponents into the deep end and drown them. With three Mana Drains, if the deck doesn't have a number of combo elements in hand, it can probably produce a large counter wall. And with Jace, the deck has a very solid and robust draw engine.  The sole Duress, in cast you are wondering, is so that the deck can Storm and win, even if the opponent has Flusterstorm.

And, last and least, what didn't make the cut. I have never liked Imperial Seal. It's a card that helps the deck combo. But it doesn't help the deck on many other fronts. The downgrade from Vampiric Tutor to Imperial Seal is harsh enough that I don't think Seal is worth including. Beyond that, there's Jace. I did, in fact, bottom a card that my opponent got with Seal at least once that weekend. There's also Gifts Ungiven. Despite having Regrowth, whenever I drew Gifts in testign I was underwhelmed. I would generally just prefer having another Jace for my four mana.

The sideboard

Next, let's look at the sideboard. Everyone knows about Ichorid, how to think about it and how to prepare for it. You wouldn't just test the first game, without sideboarding, over and over against Ichorid. You know that it is a powerful but in many ways fragile deck, and you depend on your sideboard cards to make the matchup reasonable. Well, that is how I have come to see Workshop decks. I believe that Workshop decks are extremely powerful, and are best fought by having a dedicated sideboard. As is evident from the full set of Mental Misstep in the main deck, I believe that it is quite acceptable to have several dead cards in the main deck against Workshop. Tinker is so good against Workshop that it lead me to include it in the main deck. But ultimately, Workshop decks are best addressed from the sideboard.

Against Workshop decks, you want to bring in the three Nature's Claims, the Hurkyl's Recalls, and the Dismembers. There are no set cards to cut against Workshop, but I generally remove seven cards from among the Mental Missteps, Preordains, Regrowth, and Merchant Scroll. The factors to consider are that some Workshop decks play Mental Misstep targets; Preordain is much better on the play than on the draw; and Regrowth and Merchant Scroll tend to be useful against Workshop only after other cards in your deck have secured some time.

Against other blue decks, the deck already has several tools in the main. There is no strict rule about what to bring in or out against blue decks. Against many, Duress is strong. If they have Fastbond, then Grasp becomes more potent. Flusterstorm is, of course, there against Storm spells. And I often find myself cutting Mox Pearl. I cut Tinker in about half of the blue matchups that I faced.

One important note about playing this deck against other blue decks is that it is especially well-suited to play a longer game. Yes, of course, the deck is capable of getting a first-turn win. During the Vintage Prelims on Thursday, I faced one opponent who had a total of two turns in our entire match. But the deck is built to be able to execute those quick wins, while also being increasingly favorable as the game progresses. Thus the Jaces, thus the Drains. In many circumstances, when there is no pressing need to attempt to win immediately, it is often better to accumulate counters play draw-go, rather than risk losing to a counter. One of the most difficult aspects of playing this deck correctly is knowing when to tutor for a Mana Drain, and when to tutor for Tinker.

The Vintage Prelims

The Vintage Championship was on Friday, and I wanted to play in the Vintage Prelim on Thursday. The winner of this event would receive a Netbook computer, and two byes to the Championship. I played the list described above, but I believe I had a Flusterstorm instead of the Praetor's Grasp. I won all six of my matches in the swiss, and then played out the Top Eight for the byes. Lord Homer Cat, who took second, split the Netbook with me, which we sold back to Pastimes. Neither of us were particularly excited about that fairly arbitrary piece of electronics.

I did not take match notes during the Vintage Prelims, and so I can't give a match-by-match summary. I believe I faced Workshop three times, and Oath twice. I did not encounter Ichorid during the event, which would be a constant for the weekend. At 9-0 in the Vintage Prelims, I felt quite happy with the deck, and didn't make any substantial changes before the main event.

Vintage Championships

Round 3 -- Josh Butker with Remora
-
game 1: Having two byes, I started in Round Three. Josh Mulligans and starts the game with a Black Lotus, casts Preordain, and scares me with a first-turn Tinker. I think I've lost, until a Divining Top emerges from Josh's library. We play draw-go for a bit, with Josh Topping. I resolve an Ancestral Recall, and continue to play draw-go. Eventually, Josh casts a Mystic Remora, who meets a Mental Misstep. I untap, Duress, and cast Tinker and Time Walk.
-
game 2: I Preordain, and use Mystical Tutor to find Ancestral. I resolve Ancestral on his turn, then use Hurkyl's Recall on him to remove his mana from the table; I believe he was depending on Academy to have a lot of mana open during my turn. I untap, and Gush. He Drains my Gush. I have Drain up myself, but let his Drain resolve. I cast Regrowth on my Mystical Tutor, find Demonic Tutor with it, going to 7 cards in hand, and pass with Drain open. Josh proceeds to hardcast Blightsteel Colossus, which I in turn Drain. We trade Fores. I untap, and cast Fastbond. Josh Missteps the Fastbond. So, I cast Yawgmoth's Will, use Hurkyl's Recall from the graveyard to replay my Emerald for another Green source, replay the Fastbond, and win.

Round 4 -- Nick Detwiler
I'm unexcited about having to face a teammate in the fourth round. Nick needs no introduction, and is a key figure in the US Vintage scene. I sat down, knowing that a draw would not make sense for either of us at this point in the event, and ready to face a Workshop master.
-
game 1: In the first game, Nick Mulligans down to four cards. I quickly use Vampiric Tutor to assemble Gushbond. I give Nick one turn, but end up Draining his Tangle Wire. I quickly win after that.
-
game 2: Nick Mulligans. He leads with an Ancient Tomb, and I lead with a Fetchland. He plays a Thorn, and I respond using Vampiric Tutor to find Fastbond. I cast a Jet, Ancestral, play some lands, and pass. Nick has Goblin Welder. I Hurkyl's Recall him, untap, drop Jace, and bounce Welder. I Drain and Force the spells on Nick's turn, and proceed to counter the next two Welders Nick tries to cast over the next few turns. Jace continues handing me cards in the mean time. Eventually, as some lock pieces have slipped through, I find a second Hurkyl's Recall, resolve it, untap, and win via Tendrils.


Round 5 -- Michael Gouthro with Workshops
Michael is a Canadian player, whom I look forward to seeing at Gencon each year. Part of what makes these conventions so fun is meeting people, year after year.
-
game 1: I Misstep a Gorilla Shaman, and Michael resolves a second-turn Golem. I Mystical Tutor for Hurkyl's Recall. After resolving the Hurkyl's, I Gush and resolve Jace. I Force a Welder, then Regrowth Mystical Tutor. Michael resolves a Welder, and I then Force a Golem. Jace dies, and Michael makes another Golem. However, since Michael only has Golems for lock pieces, I am able to assemble lethal Storm using my own Moxen, Yawgmoth's Will, and Hurkyl's Recall on myself. It was a very close game.
-
game 2: I spend the first few turns playing land, a Mox, and a Sol Ring. Michael casts a third-turn Golem. I Drain the Golem. Michael Red Blasts my Drain. I Mental Misstep his Red Blast, and he unhappily puts the Golem in the graveyard. I use that mana to assemble a win on the next turn.

Round 6 -- Joseph with BUG Fish
-
game 1: I am Duressed, which takes a Demonic Tutor and also shuts my Library down. At this point, having seen Blue, Green, and Black, I decide that Joseph is on a Gush deck. So, using Mystical Tutor, I grab Tinker. At this point, Joseph is ahead of me in cards, and I wanted to try to end the game quickly. I learn that Joseph is not, in fact, on a Gush deck when my Colossus is met with a Diabolic Edict. That's not good. Joseph Wastes my Underground Sea, and Dazes my Time Twister. Life from the Loam shows up to help him get back lost land, my Jace is hit with Thoughtseize before I can cast him, and Tarmogoyf beats me to death. I feel like I could have played this game very differently, had I expected my opponent to be on Fish instead of Gush, and if I had expected cards like Daze. Of course, part of the advantage of playing a strategy such as his is that your opponents will often misidentify your deck.
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game 2: I Mulligan a no-land hand, and open with Lotus, Ruby, and a land. Joseph Mystical Tutors, finding Force of Will. We play Draw/Go for a bit, until he hits me with a draw-step Clique. I believe he takes a Tutor. In my subsequent main phase, I Gush, which he Forces. I Force back, casting Jace after. I Fateseal myself, to keep Jace alive after a Clique hit. I then counter his Jace. On my turn, Jace hands me three cards, and then I duress Joseph, and win off Yawgmoth's Will.
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game 3: I Mental Misstep his Duress. Clique and Bob join Joseph's team, but I Vamp Tutor for Tinker. Joseph buys a turn chumping with Tarmogoyf, but can't survive since I have a Drain to protect the Colossus.

Round 7 -- Ryan with Workshops
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game 1: I have Preordain and three Moxes. Ryan drops a Sphere. I Drain a Golem. But Ryan has played three Workshops in a row, and has two Revokers. One hits Mox Jet (which I have in play, of course) and the next hits Jace. Wasteland and Thorn impede my mana base, as I fail to have any relevant pressure for Ryan. Ryan plays a card that I've left in my Scars Block draft sideboard, and hits me for eight. I Hurkyl's Recall him and try to make a game of things. I cast Gush and Ancestral, but nothing to let me win that turn. And Ryan quickly wins once I pass the turn back.
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game 2: I quickly assemble Tinker this game. Ryan makes his very own Blightsteel with his Phyrexian Metamorph, but Hurkyl solves that problem and I win. It's worth noting that neither Chain of Vapor nor Rebuild would work in that situation.
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game 3: Ryan opens with Shop, Jet, Sol Ring, Null Rod, and Thorn. I Force the Thorn. And then I Tinker for Blightsteel again. My testing strongly indicated that Tinker was a key card in the Workshop matchup, and this match was further evidence.

Round 8 -- ID

Top Eight: Paul Mastriano with Gush Bob
Paul is a former World Champion and a very strong player. I hadn't played against his new Gush Bob deck before. But all of my attempts to merge those two cards into a single deck had not been successful.
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game 1: Paul opens with a Scalding Tarn, getting Fastbond. I let it resolve. He then plays some land and casts Merchant Scroll. That, I force. My reasoning is that most current Vintage Gush decks are not consistent enough in winning that Fastbond is the immediate must-counter it once was. I Merchant Scroll for Ancestral and pass. Paul has Preordain, and bottoms both cards. I Force Gush, which he Pierces. He replays both of his land, and casts another Preordain. He plays Confidant and passes. I Ancestral, then find Blightsteel with Tinker. I Mental Misstep paul's Top, which he Pierces. He Mysticals for Gush, pops Top, Gushes, plays Sol Ring, plays Top, and digs for a solution. He doesn't find one and Blightsteel wins.
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game 2: Paul opens with Mox and a Time Walk. He Brainstorms and drops Black Lotus. I just have a Land. Paul Vamps, casts Yawgmoth's Will, and defends it with a Force. He assembles his own Blightsteel and I lose.
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game 3: I Mulligan. I keep a less-than-impressive hand with two Islands and a Mana Crypt for land, and Vamp Tutor and Demonic Tutor for spells. I think I also had a Gush. Paul has Underground Sea, and having just drawn Mental Misstep on my second turn, I counter Paul's Preordain on his second turn. On my next turn, I find Tinker and cast it. Paul has one turn. He Ponders, looking for Black Lotus, the only out in his deck. He doesn't find it in the top three. He shuffles. I shuffle. And I put his Black Lotus, the one out in his deck, right on top of his library for him. He immediately makes one of those exaggerated faces that he and Steve make, and proceeds to take infinite turns using Time Vault. Once again, Black Lotus was a key factor in a Meandecker defeating me in the elimination bracket of the Vintage Championships.

Final Thoughts

As frustrating as it is to lose to a one-outer, I can't complain. Paul is a very respectable player. And I had a good run. Between the Prelims and the Vintage Championsips, I finished 14-1-1 with the deck. I believe the deck is extremely good, and would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone looking for a good Vintage deck. It takes some practice, and knowing when to push for the combo and when to play a control game will not be apparent at first. But I haven't felt this good about a Vintage deck since four-Brainstorm Gush Oath from a few years ago.

Finally, I can't close the report without at least a mention of theft. On Saturday, as I played in the Legacy Championship (I finished 20th), my backpack was stolen. It contained my Standard deck (Splinter Twin), my deckbuilding binder (I lost my fourth Underground Sea, among many other Vintage and Legacy cards that I brought for possible inclusion in my decks), and my trade binder (I had several Dual Lands, 2 Word of Command, and even a Snow Mercy). The number of thefts at this event was disheartening. Given the scale and scope of the thefts, I believe that an organized, dedicated group of thieves must have been present at the convention. My only consolation is that, while I had my Vintage deck in my backpack right up until I left the hotel room on Saturday morning, I took it out of my backpack just before leaving and left it in a drawer in the hotel room. I still lost about $1400 in cards, but it could have been much, much, much worse. While I don't retain any hope of recovering these cards, nor the backpack that I had had for a decade, if anyone knows anything or has any information, I would certainly appreciate hearing about it.

And to end on a more positive note, let me say how excellent it was to see everyone at Vintage Worlds. I don't want to name names, lest I forget someone. But I really enjoyed seeing those Vintage players and community members whom I don't get to see frequently enough outside of these large conventions. This has always been a large part of what makes Vintage tournaments the awesome events that they are.
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2011, 06:03:33 pm »

Congratulations for your awesome performance!
I'm sorry to hear about your loss.
I have to say that I like your deck a lot, however I have a few specific questions about certain cards:

- does library really make the cut as it's not an island and a very slow engine?
- how did regrowth perform?

but most of all, I have some questions about your sideboard:

- what made you play the dredge configuration of

2  Nihil Spellbomb
1  Pithing Needle
1  Ravenous Trap
1  Yixlid Jailer

as all of those cards (save yixlid) are just temporary solutions. Do you win quickly enough to get away with 5 cards? Would you still run the same configuration in the  light of sun titan dredge?

- how did predator's grasp perform? I would maybe see this as 6th Ichorid hate card. Unless it's needed. Is is your cute card?
I was thinking like this:
with 4 Leyline +2 you'd have a definitive solution against ichorid, especially because you run 4x misstep, which makes those leylines easier to protect.
Do you just hope to draw into those hate pieces instead of mulling into them?

Looking forward to your responses.
P.F.
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2011, 06:49:30 pm »

Those are some excellent questions.

Library of Alexandria wasn't a card that needs to be in the deck. I could see it being cut for another Underground Sea. If you expect a field heavily saturated by Blue decks, then Library is a strong card. But against many other matchups, the fourth Sea would be better. As I mentioned in the report, Library is the card in the main deck that I am least convinced about.

Regrowth was something that I cast in Round 3 and Round 5, and it was powerful in both cases. Is Regrowth the best card in the deck? No. If you are trying to cut cards from the deck to push something else in, then Regrowth is something to consider. But I think that Regrowth plays an important role in the deck's ability to execute a quick combo win. Many games on the weekend, and in testing the deck, were decided by the deck's ability not only to find and resolve Fastbond quickly, but also to win the game fairly consistently once Fastbond arrives. In testing other Gush decks, I often found them lacking in their ability to translate a Fastbond into a win. Regrowth helps immensely with this.

And for the Dredge hate cards. In a prior message on Face Book, someone asked me what I would cut for a sixth Dredge card. I responded that I would cut either the Praetor's Grasp or a Duress, probably the Grasp. I put Grasp on the Stack once during Gencon, and it was countered. Part of this is because I saw zero Dark Ritual Storm decks there. I also had Praetor's Grasp against other Fastbond decks, but didn't end up drawing it that often. I think that running a sixth Dredge hate card makes a lot of sense, given that Dredge has just won the Vintage Championship.

As for which cards to run against Dredge, I think that the configuration should be reevaluated based on the winning Dredge decklist. I have not tested against that particular list yet, and so don't know how best to proceed against it. It is possible that Leylines are optimal there, but I can't say without testing.

In general, I often approach Dredge with a variety of different cards. I think it makes things more difficult for the Dredge player to answer. Certainly the Leylines are powerful against every build of Dredge. At the same time, given how much card draw this deck runs, in some ways Leylines don't play nicely with that card draw. If you Mulligan down to a five-card hand searching for a Leyline, you're less likely to have the Misstep that you need to defend the Leyline. And Nihil Spellbomb is a card that I did bring in against some Blue decks, depending on their configuration.

That all said, I think that testing against the newer list is needed to determine the optimal set of six cards.
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2011, 08:26:07 pm »

Thanks for the report.  I had some questions that your report answered nicely.  Congratulations on your great performance and I'm sorry to hear about your loss at Gencon.
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2011, 10:07:46 pm »

Both Jesse and I played this list the following day in the tournament for the From The Vaults products. Congrats to Rich for assembling what was quite-clearly the best performing Vintage deck of the weekend. We ran a second Jailer in the place of the Trap, but otherwise kept the list as-is.

For me, the deck was amazing. I smashed my way through two Dredge decks (including the one that won the Champs the night before) courtesy of Mental Misstep. Rich isn't kidding when he says that card is the real deal. It was pure gold all day, and vs. Dredge it stops 99% of the cards they sideboard in games 2 and 3. I quite like the second Jailer, as your Mental Missteps can keep them quite safe once they get in play.

Library was great in theory, but I ended up getting screwed one game when I drew Library instead of the second Island I needed to get my early Gushes rolling.

Jesse ended up splitting the finals. I watched one match when he Praetor's Grasped his opponent's Fast Bond and went off with it Smile

The only change (aside from the Library and running a second Jailer) that I would recommend is something vs. the Fish matchup. Dismembers are great, but I rather like the idea of running one Virtue's Ruin in the Grasp spot.
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2011, 11:10:28 pm »

I just want to note that when Rich played Grasp and it was countered, it was done by Force pitching Jace, so even there it was awesome. Razz
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2011, 11:31:47 pm »

Great report Rich and congrats on your top 8. It was unfortunate at all the scum bagging that went on at Gencon. As for an optimal set up against Dredge, I believe is starts with a combination of Leylines and Jailers. If you wanted to cheat on it I could see something with 3x Jailer, Spellbomb, Relic/Crypt, Trap, and a Needlie (since it can pull double duty).
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2011, 05:19:55 am »

Well done Sir.

Nothing to add to this impressive preformance.
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2011, 08:25:46 am »

Sorry to hear about your stolen stuff...

Anyway, I played about 100 games with this deck today. When new (to me) decks do well at an event, I love playing it a bunch online to get insight into how to beat it. I was having a ton of fun with Steve's Bob/Gush deck this past week, and if I had to describe the essence of that deck in one word it would be "powerful." When playing with this deck, I had a very different feeling, and my one word summation would be that it is "elegant." It just flows nicely, never feels clunky, and seamlessly transitions into a hardcore control deck when needed. Great job with the list and congratulations on T8.
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2011, 12:01:16 pm »

Mulls to four and five in our games meant that the match wasn't bound to be what we had both hoped for, still, it was great to see you do so well Rich. 
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 06:49:22 pm »

as always, bravo on an excellent performance and entertaining report.

For some reason, I'm lamenting the loss of your iconic backpack more than the cards. The whole thing sucks, but you'll win most of that stuff back probably Wink
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2011, 12:23:09 am »

Outstanding report! Hopefully the dickhead that stole your stuff will be found and beaten to death with a hammer.

I have a question about the maindeck control configuration: Would you consider cutting one of the Missteps to add in a second Duress in the main? I only ask because having just 1 Duress seems slightly less-than-optimal given that it does enable you to strike at opposing Blue decks before your deck begins to "go off" so you can combo-out a bit easier.

The other question I have for you is about the land-base. Not so much the main land count (15+8 Accelerants is DEFINATELY the perfect number in any matchup for Game 1), but why you didn't have an additional basic in the board for the Shops matchup? Considering you X-0'ed the Prelims and the Main Event, It's pretty obvious that the extra wasn't needed for this list, I was just curious as to what led you to this decision.

Once again, great tourney report!
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2011, 01:02:20 am »

Ian, I feel pretty bad about losing the backpack. I bought a new one, but it won't be the same for a while.

The maindeck Duress is, in many ways, an answer to Flusterstorm. It lets you win through Storm, even if the opponent has that card in hand. And I really like having one discard spell to tutor for sometimes. But I don't really want more than one in the main deck. Having one in the deck to find with a tutor, or to find when going off, is sufficient for many matchups. And against Workshop decks, Mental Misstep is much better than Duress. This is because Duress having a useful ability against Workshop will come up less often than Mental Misstep being blue.

I didn't have extra land against Workshop decks because of a shift in how the Workshop matchup plays out now. Once upon a time, you want to sit back and make your land drops against Workshop, waiting until you could pounce and win. But those decks of playing draw-go against Workshop are over. Between Golem and those Scars Block Draft Cats, you won't win by just playing lands like you did when Trinisphere was the best card. You need inexpensive solutions to their threats. And so, I don't think that having more land is the way to go.
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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2011, 07:59:03 am »

Congratulations Rich on a great deck and a great run! I'll try your list soon...

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« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2011, 12:44:57 pm »

I think the most vigorous discussion I've heard about this deck is the presence of Tendrils of Agony and likely Timetwister as opposed to the more obvious Vault+Key combo. You talk in your introduction about how the lack of Vault+Key in the Jesse Martin Gush list surprised you, but that you tried it out anyway. Obviously, you found it to be superior going into GenCon, but what is your opinion on that now, in hindsight?
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« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2011, 03:17:04 pm »

In hindsight, I would do it the same way again. I didn't lose any matches on the weekend to lack of Vault/Key. But I did put both Time Twister and Tendrils to good use. I like being able to turn my Storm into a win, without assembling Tinker and Timewalk. And in testing, I've really liked being able to win games against Bob players using Tendrils.
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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2011, 12:26:56 pm »

Nice read, Rich.

grats on top 8.
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2011, 01:49:43 am »

Hi Rich

Very good report. I also play the almost same deck as you but often find myself having massive problems against MUD decks. Whats exactly your strategy? I used to play UBR Bob/Jace and it seemed to be much easier. With Gushstorm I play the same 7 hatecards as you. Do you have some tipps?

Thx in advance!
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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2011, 12:53:46 pm »

Hi Rich

Very good report. I also play the almost same deck as you but often find myself having massive problems against MUD decks. Whats exactly your strategy? I used to play UBR Bob/Jace and it seemed to be much easier. With Gushstorm I play the same 7 hatecards as you. Do you have some tipps?

Thx in advance!

One thing I know about his list is that you want to also be siding in Dismember against MUD. So actually you should have 9 dedicated hate post SB.

-Storm
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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2011, 04:40:20 pm »

I hate to be the one to ask the dumb questions, but particularly in the control-ish builds, has anyone tested Scroll Rack?
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« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2011, 07:49:00 pm »

I hate to be the one to ask the dumb questions, but particularly in the control-ish builds, has anyone tested Scroll Rack?

Why play this over the more efficient Jace and SDT?
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