[Single Card Discussion] Glassdust Hulk

[Norm4eva]

Without getting into issues of semantics *too* badly, here's what I think of the situation.

We have a card - either one mentioned, doesn't really matter - that does the following;

- gets pitched to Force of Will, OR
- draws a card AND probably makes Tarmogoyf +2/+2 until end of game, OR
- swings for 3

I don't think pitching to Force is irrelevant, for the same reason that I don't think enabling Goyf is irrelevant, although those cards tend to have more weight in Legacy than Vintage.  It's the 'eventual beater' thing that, IMO, is a red herring and is pretty well tossable as a reason to run the card.  I know there are no bad threats, but you could do a lot better.

The simple question then, is "Is there a card which can not only pitch to Force of Will, but also draw at least one card and in doing so, make one of the best creatures in the format bigger?"  And that question narrows down what either of the mentioned cards should be weighed against.

Even the Goyf thing is more like, "How do I make *my* Tarmogoyf more important than my opponent's Tarmogoyf?" None of the suggested cycling cards can do that.

So really, it's like, "What the better card that pitches to Force and draws at least one card?" and there's kind of a LOT of cards that do it better than either of the cards in this thread.

And there's just no comparing it to Street Wraith, it has an entirely different cost.  If we're going off the idea that going from 60 cards to 56 is an issue of putting in cards which require no mana investment to cantrip, then these cards fail that test amazingly.

[TracerBullet]

Sure, play synergy, play interactions, play to your focus, but when in doubt, play good cards.  This is, in *no* way, a good card.

[Smmenen]

Running Street Wraiths, Architects of Will, and Glassdust Golem serves an irrelevant purpose.
"But I can run a 48 card deck."
Last time I checked, I never had trouble finding 60 cards to run.

David, that's the wrong answer, and I disagree that running fewer cards per deck is an irrelevant purpose.   If I could run a card that would actually give me a 56 card deck  in Vintage -- or god forbid a 48 card one -- I would.  But no such card exists.   

The problem is that those cards DO NOT give you a 48 card deck, even though they purport to. 

Semantics aside, I'm pretty sure you know what my post is supposed to convey. Pretend that what I wrote is what I meant, which is the way the vast majority of people reading my post will interpret it as.


TO CLARIFY
If there were a card which I could cycle for no cost and let me see what I'm drawing in to which would effectively reduce the size of my deck, I would run it.
Glassdust Hulk is not that card.
In fact, that card does not, and I sure hope, will never exist.

Your post gave the impression, even if unintended, that deck size doesn't matter very much, that running less than 60 cards if possible isn't something that is a 'relevant purpose.'  That's not semantics; that's substantive.   I know you don't think that, so I was pointing it out for clarification, not criticism.   

[LordHomerCat]

Without getting into issues of semantics *too* badly, here's what I think of the situation.

We have a card - either one mentioned, doesn't really matter - that does the following;

- gets pitched to Force of Will, OR
- draws a card AND probably makes Tarmogoyf +2/+2 until end of game, OR
- swings for 3

I don't think pitching to Force is irrelevant, for the same reason that I don't think enabling Goyf is irrelevant, although those cards tend to have more weight in Legacy than Vintage.  It's the 'eventual beater' thing that, IMO, is a red herring and is pretty well tossable as a reason to run the card.  I know there are no bad threats, but you could do a lot better.

The simple question then, is "Is there a card which can not only pitch to Force of Will, but also draw at least one card and in doing so, make one of the best creatures in the format bigger?"  And that question narrows down what either of the mentioned cards should be weighed against.

Even the Goyf thing is more like, "How do I make *my* Tarmogoyf more important than my opponent's Tarmogoyf?" None of the suggested cycling cards can do that.

So really, it's like, "What the better card that pitches to Force and draws at least one card?" and there's kind of a LOT of cards that do it better than either of the cards in this thread.

And there's just no comparing it to Street Wraith, it has an entirely different cost.  If we're going off the idea that going from 60 cards to 56 is an issue of putting in cards which require no mana investment to cantrip, then these cards fail that test amazingly.

The more important question you should ask is not "Is there a better card that does these things" but rather "Is there something better to be doing than these things?"  Sure, this might be the best Pitch-Discard-Cycle card ever.  And maybe Reverent Silence is the best Enchantment Destruction ever.  That doesn't mean I will play Silence because the thing it does is not good.  I have a whole deck of cards which I can discard to Thirst, about a dozen or more cards which draw me at least one other card, and probably upwards of 25 cards that pitch to Force.  I don't find myself drawing good cards, cards which actually do something, and thinking "I wish this card pitched and cycled and discarded well instead of doing a real thing".  This might be the best card ever at what it does, but what it does basically sucks so who cares.

[beder]

In my opinion, the most interesting thing with this card is that it really boost consistently your tarmo.
For decks revolving around it, tarmo is often 3/4 or 4/5 in turn 2. Thanks to this card, tarmo will be 5/6 from turn 2. This may represent a 4 turns clock instead of a 5 turns one.
I don't say that the package of interactions - boost tarmo and cycle, pitch to fow - provided by this card will be sufficent to make such a deck better, but at least I think I will give it a try (for instance in a deck like the Grow deck used by steve recently).

[LotusHead]

I only recently noticed the +1 boost (and unblockability) if an artifact I control comes into play.

If Aether Spellbomb got extracted or expirtated or Chalice for 1 is out, then a resolved Glassdusk Hulk would be a win.  There was a thread somewhere about Bomberman decks playing Chalice for 1 (and I for one have played Dimir Guildmage maindeck in the past to circumvent Chalice for 1).

[Tha Gunslinga]

I only recently noticed the +1 boost (and unblockability) if an artifact I control comes into play.

If Aether Spellbomb got extracted or expirtated or Chalice for 1 is out, then a resolved Glassdusk Hulk would be a win.  There was a thread somewhere about Bomberman decks playing Chalice for 1 (and I for one have played Dimir Guildmage maindeck in the past to circumvent Chalice for 1).

Isn't that what Trinkets and Salvagers are for?  Killing your opponent when you can't combo out?

[zabuza]

What about combining this creature with goblin welder??
You can sac a mox to have a beater and a new card. And if you play more artifacts this titan can kill the opponent in an alpha strike.