[Single Card Discussion] Glassdust Hulk

[LotusHead]

Well? It pitches to Force of Will, draws 1 for U (or W) and is a makeshift win condition to boot?

Sometimes we ponder what it would be like to build 40 card Vintage Decks, or for the purposes of this discussion, 56 card decks.

This dude seems like Street Wraith but better.

The cycling part seems the best (in that if it isn't effective now, cycle it and get something broken now, or pitch it to Force of Will and be thankfull it wasn't a precious brainstorm/bounce spell/DSC.)

Technically, it's an artifact, so fits in with Thirst For Knowledge type decks.  Bomberman?
Thoughts?

[Qube]

Well, I think you can use it to cycling, and pitching for FOW or to TfK.

But I do not think you can use it on the board as creature. Isn't the CmC not to high to use this?

I also think, that there are better choices to draw card for 1  . In what kind of deck you think about this? Bomberman? but how they will use them?

[chrissss]

Its not a bad card I guess, though appart from bomberman I don't think a lot of decks can really find a space to use it. I you have salvagers in play and a lotus and this guy you win, but so does the spellbomb, which is less vulnerable.

pitching to fow is a huge plus indeed.

[patat]

I'm not sure how much I like this card for vintage...  For a grower, it takes quite a bit of effort to swing for 20 with. 
In bomberman, I'd much rather tinker for inky, or just go off in normal bomberman style.  I mean, he definitely makes it close to the cut to play in bomberman, but if you're sitting on low mana and this pops into your hand rather than a trinket mage, you're not gonna be happy about it.

I just think if you've already hit that combo, you've pretty much got your win.  There's no need for this guy.

It's nice to pitch though, and cycling is fun.  Just a little too slow and one sided for bomberman.  I've been playing too much bomberman lately though, so I can't speak for other techy decks.. =P

[Mantis]

Neat with Welder, but I do not even think Slaver will consider this so probably a no.

[Tobi]

Imagine a UW artifact aggro list with Esperzoa, Canonist, Master of Etherium, Chalice/Null Rod, Forces and Thirsts. This guy could fit into this pretty well, it even has synergy with Esperzoa.

Not saying this would be uber tier one, but at least a nice little deck to play around with.

[eaglewolf]

Sorry if this is a bit rude, but I really don't see how this is useful. Street Wraith was decent because it is zero mana to cycle. I'm going to estimate that the majority of the time that you draw this, it will read "U - Draw a card", or will get thrown to a pitch counter. I can't really see Reach Through Mists being played in Vintage.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Peek pitches to Force, draws a card for U, AND you get to look at your opponent's hand.  How is that not better?

[Tobi]

Peek pitches to Force, draws a card for U, AND you get to look at your opponent's hand.  How is that not better?

Peek can be countered.
And is not an artifact.
Strictly worse!

[Harlequin]

And can't be played off Plains

[TopSecret]

And doesn't pump 'Goyf for 2 points.

[nineisnoone]

And doesn't pump 'Goyf for 2 points.

Why would I play 'Goyf when I have this guy?  'Goyf doesn't even pump him.  You want to play Orthinopter.

[oneofchaos]

The important thing to note, is that fish decks will need to switch to stabilizer instead of null rod.  We must not let this guy be cycled.  Your going to have to win the die roll and have a first turn stabilizer if you really are sincerely trying to stop this guy from being cycled.  Otherwise they will just end step cycle him. 

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

Maybe this wouldn't be terrible as a singleton in tezz to like dodge mass Extracts or Hide/Seeks something but it definitely isn't really that amazing.

[eaglewolf]

While it might be nice to have a backup against 3x extract effects, I can't imagine what you would cut for this card. As a beater, it's pretty bad, and the additional ability is nowhere near gamebreaking to justify playing it.

[Vegeta2711]

Imagine a UW artifact aggro list with Esperzoa, Canonist, Master of Etherium, Chalice/Null Rod, Forces and Thirsts. This guy could fit into this pretty well, it even has synergy with Esperzoa.

Not saying this would be uber tier one, but at least a nice little deck to play around with.

Imagine a block deck...

Now imagine it with Moxen! Amazing.

[nineisnoone]

I do feel the need to say that if this was a 5/5 and u/b, I would consider it.  Or maybe if it was counters instead of for the turn.  It's just way too small to even be considered a robot.  It won't even survive 'goyf.

[TopSecret]

And doesn't pump 'Goyf for 2 points.

Why would I play 'Goyf when I have this guy?  'Goyf doesn't even pump him.  You want to play Orthinopter.

I personally think that there's room to maindeck both 'Goyf and Ornithropter,
but that debate's been had so many times, I'll just leave it at that.

[Guli]

This card doesn't seem strong enough at first glance.

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

The best I see this card getting is a singleton spot in tezz lists if RFG cards like Extract become really popular just as an alternate win condition+artifact to pitch+blue card+cantrip.

[Phele]

What about this?

2UB

Architects of Will
Artifact Creature — Human Wizard

When Architects of Will comes into play, look at the top three cards of target player's library, then put them back in any order.
Cycling Blue or Black (Blue or Black, Discard this card: Draw a card.)

3 / 3

I think this follows the lines of your argumentation Lotus, but is more powerful:

- It has the in Vintage most common and most powerful color combination (even though I am a big Bomberman fan, I have to admit that )
- It is easier to hardcast, with the same Power
- Its abbility seems to be a lot better than the one from Hulk. Architects follows exactly the theme of Library manipulation and filtering you are looking for
- It still pitches fot Fow, Misdirection and Thirst

so

4 FoW
4 Thirst
4 Architects

seem to be a good starting point to think about it

[Kiriyuu]

You can play the 'of will' tribal deck!

4 Force of will
4 Architects of will
4 .....avatar of will? O_o

Okay maybe not.

[LordHomerCat]

Why are these cards being talked about?  One is a 3/4 for 5, the other is a 3/3 for 4.  Neither has an ability that says 'win the game' (hell, neither really has an ability at all) so why even think about them?  If we wanted cheap cyclers, why isn't anyone playing Street Wraith?  I guess I don't get it or something, but there is no reason I would ever play these cards outside of a limited deck.

[Phele]

If we wanted cheap cyclers, why isn't anyone playing Street Wraith?

But Street Wraith isn't Pitching to Force and Thirst as well. In first testing games in a UB Tez build I liked the Achitects but actually never really casted them. But being able to almost always pitch or cycle something seemed to make the deck even more consistant. I might be wrong and it is a stupid idea. But at least I like Lotushead wanted to talk about it. Sorry for wasting your time.

[LotusHead]

If we wanted cheap cyclers, why isn't anyone playing Street Wraith?

But Street Wraith isn't Pitching to Force and Thirst as well. In first testing games in a UB Tez build I liked the Achitects but actually never really casted them. But being able to almost always pitch or cycle something seemed to make the deck even more consistant. I might be wrong and it is a stupid idea. But at least I like Lotushead wanted to talk about it. Sorry for wasting your time.

When Street Wraith came out, many were calling the most busted card they'd seen in a long time. That is, all Vintage decks were likely to become effectively 56 card decks. Granted, street wraith failed to be awesome, but with Glassdusk Hulk and Architechs of Will being cheap cyclers, artifacts and blue cards (that have a POSSIBILITY of being a win condition), could we not have effective 48 card decks now? (or say, 52 cards if not using Street Wraith).

[Vegeta2711]

But Street Wraith isn't Pitching to Force and Thirst as well.

When your argument for a card basically starts and ends at this along with ' I CAN GET RID OF IT FOR CHEAP!', that's probably a sign you shouldn't be running the card.

[Norm4eva]

The point is, it's a ghost card.  If it needs to be in your hand to play a pitch spell, great.  If you don't need it, it goes to the bin and becomes an awesome.  I hate to say, "if you need to play the thing you can" since I never liked that argument in regard to, like, Elvish Spirit Guide... but yeah, you can

That said I don't know if the Wraith comparison holds up, since this guy definitely does NOT cost 0 to cycle.  I don't know how often drawing a Wraith bites you in the ass when you're TfK'ing, I've not played that card outside of Legacy Affinity (and not for a couple years at that) but if the suckass : notsuckass ratio isn't good enough, maybe toss this guy in instead?

As an aside it doesn't seem like small potatoes that you can cycle this guy to give target Goyf +2/+2, basically doesn't the card say "Artifact Creature Instant - U/W - Draw a card" ?  Isn't that screaming Goyf food?

[Webster]

This card is actually awful.
I can't believe people think there is anything remotely interesting about this.
It doesn't DO anything.

Running Street Wraiths, Architects of Will, and Glassdust Golem serves an irrelevant purpose.
"But I can run a 48 card deck."
Last time I checked, I never had trouble finding 60 cards to run.

No good decks run Extract. No good players run Extract.
Running a card like Glassdust Golem to "Dodge Extirpate et al." is very bad.
If you're going to add a win condition, add a real one like Sundering Titan, Empty the Warrens, or any other card on the opposite side of the playability spectrum.

[Smmenen]

Running Street Wraiths, Architects of Will, and Glassdust Golem serves an irrelevant purpose.
"But I can run a 48 card deck."
Last time I checked, I never had trouble finding 60 cards to run.

David, that's the wrong answer, and I disagree that running fewer cards per deck is an irrelevant purpose.   If I could run a card that would actually give me a 56 card deck  in Vintage -- or god forbid a 48 card one -- I would.  But no such card exists.   

The problem is that those cards DO NOT give you a 48 card deck, even though they purport to. 

[Webster]

Running Street Wraiths, Architects of Will, and Glassdust Golem serves an irrelevant purpose.
"But I can run a 48 card deck."
Last time I checked, I never had trouble finding 60 cards to run.

David, that's the wrong answer, and I disagree that running fewer cards per deck is an irrelevant purpose.   If I could run a card that would actually give me a 56 card deck  in Vintage -- or god forbid a 48 card one -- I would.  But no such card exists.   

The problem is that those cards DO NOT give you a 48 card deck, even though they purport to. 

Semantics aside, I'm pretty sure you know what my post is supposed to convey. Pretend that what I wrote is what I meant, which is the way the vast majority of people reading my post will interpret it as.


TO CLARIFY
If there were a card which I could cycle for no cost and let me see what I'm drawing in to which would effectively reduce the size of my deck, I would run it.
Glassdust Hulk is not that card.
In fact, that card does not, and I sure hope, will never exist.