Vault Storm

[ErkBek]

Diceman's awesome post in this thread http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37884.30 got me wanting to play Vintage again and gave me a deck idea. Why not incorporate the best kill condition in the format into the deck that needs it most, TPS:

Kill 4
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Tendrils
1 Street Wraith (the backup)

Protection 12
4 Duress
4 FoW
2 MisD
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall

Threats 18
4 Tutors: Mystical / Vamp / Seal / Demonic
5 Cheap Draw: Ancestral / Ponder / Brainstorm / Merchant Scroll / Time Walk
9 Bombs: Yawg Will / Twister / Tinker / Jar / Necro / Bargain / Desire / Gifts / FOF

Mana 26
10 Artifact: 5 Mox / Lotus / Ring / Vault / Petal / Crypt (yes, crypt is a liability with infinite turns, but it's too good not to pay if running D7's)
12 Lands: 1 Academy / 1 Swamp / 1 Island / 3 Usea / 4 Delta / 2 Strand
4 Dark Rit

TPS has almost always had to run a backup kill in case Tendrils wasn't getting it done. Tinker-DSC was used for oops I win openers, quick finishers to games when hands lack explosive plays, and to kill through lock components. I've never liked the DSC plan since it makes cards that should be dead against you (Welder, bounce, STP, Bouncer, etc) good. ETW, Pyschatog, Titan, and Inkwell have all been tried, but DSC has always seemed to win out do to the expediency. 

I like that Vault-Key keeps the opponent's dead cards dead. It doesn't help give you the alternate win vs. Chalice @1 and Null Rods, however Chalice doesn't seem to be getting much play these days and since Null Rod usually comes down on turn 2, we've got a turn to Duress it out or set up a play. Null Rod is still a beating, but we can try to address it with the sideboard.

Vault-key plays well with TPS since 4 tutors and 3 Draw7's increase your odds of assembling it. Interestingly, Vault-Key plays well with D7's while DSC plays poorly with them.

Some comments on the list:

26 mana sources is a little low for TPS, but Vault-Key allows wins with less mana. Playing 26 mana allows increased threat density and more protection spells. Cabal Ritual seems like a rather poor option in here.

The single Street Wraith makes the deck 59 cards, but also is the backup kill post vault-key. Wraith is also cute with the 3 topdeck tutors.

19 Blue spells should be alright, 20-21 would be nice. Never been a big fan of Fact or Fiction in TPS, but Vault-Key might make it worthwhile. If it doesn't work out so hot, Grim Tutor could easily replace it.

I think Red out of the board is the way to go. REB's seem like must haves for the Remora matchup. Might as well load up on some Dredge hate. Combo mirrors should be pretty decent since you've got Duress, FoW, and Vault-key enables more oops-I wins. Fish matchup looks kinda soft as is. Not sure how to address it, probably loading up on Chain of Vapors, an ETW, and playing some bonus island out of the board. Random Sundering Ben for good measure since he gets no love these days.

1 Volcanic
1 Island
3 Pyroblast/REB
1 ETW
1 Sundering Ben (DSC / Inkwell if you must)
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Jailer
1 Planar Void
1 Extirpate
1 Tormod's Crypt

I always like mixing up the Dredge hate when you've got 4 tutors. Extirpate on Cabal Therapy buys a lot of time for Storm to set up.

Gush is a potential board card for the Drain matchup. Gush helps cast Desire, and is awesome with Gifts and topdeck tutors.

Unfortunately, I don't get to play much T1 these days, but this list looks too good not to share.

Thoughts? Ideas? Discuss!

[Cunningbeaver]

LoL Eric I JUST and mean JUST played a list like this yesterday at the Philadelphia tournament to a top 8.
The deck was monstrous all day as I went 4-1-1. My loss in the swiss was to dredge and i 2-0'd my swiss wins.

In the top 8 I had Paul beat but demonic tutored for the wrong card first to give him a turn he wouldnt have otherwise had.



4 - Underground Sea
3-  Polluted Delata
2-  Flooded Strand
2-  Tropical Island
2-  Island
1-  Swamp
1-  Tolarian Academy

    Lotus
    Jet
    Saph
    Emerald
    Ruby
    Petal
    Mana Crypt
    Sol Ring
1- Voltaic Key
    Time Vault
1- Inkwell Leviathan
1- Regrowth

4-  Force of Will
3- Thrist for Knowledge
2- Misdirection
1-  Ancestral
1-  Brainstorm
1- Chain of Vapor
1- Fact or Fiction
1- Gifts Ungiven
1- Gush
1- Hurkyl's Recall
1- Merchant Scroll
1- Mystical Tutor
1- Tezzeret the Seeker
1- Time Walk
1- Tinker

3- Dark Ritual
2- Duress
2- Thoughtseize
1- Demonic Tutor
1- Vampiric Tutor
1- Yawgmoth's Will
1- Necropotence
1-Tendrils of Agony   

[Smmenen]

The suggestion of playing Time Vault and Voltaic Key in TPS has come up on my team boards many times.   I tried it and didn't like it, but your mileage may vary.  Here is what I said:

Believe it or not, Vault-Key does not go in every deck in Vintage.     TPS uses its tutors to find engines, not two card combo parts.   Too often, you would draw one part and it would be dead for too long.  It's simply more efficient to find something that wins the game by itself.

[ErkBek]

1- Inkwell Leviathan
1- Regrowth
3- Thrist for Knowledge
1- Tezzeret the Seeker

You opted for Thirsts over Twister, Desire, and Bargain. Isn't the point of running Rituals so that you can play more powerful cards than Thirst? Why did you run the Rituals?

I don't think Regrowth is worth bastardizing your manabase for, even if you play Goyfs out of the board. Regrowth is nice with Gifts, but Gush is just as good, if not better much of the time if you run Mystical and/or Iseal. Gifts for Lotus, Demonic, Mystical, and Vamp.

Running a single Tez in the deck over the Street Wraith might be good though. It's another bomb that just wins and it's blue.

The suggestion of playing Time Vault and Voltaic Key in TPS has come up on my team boards many times.   I tried it and didn't like it, but your mileage may vary.  Here is what I said:

Believe it or not, Vault-Key does not go in every deck in Vintage.     TPS uses its tutors to find engines, not two card combo parts.   Too often, you would draw one part and it would be dead for too long.  It's simply more efficient to find something that wins the game by itself.

The same couldn't be said for Tinker-DSC? Or is it more acceptable since Tinker-DSC is only one potential dead card and is a one card combo.

[Smmenen]

The suggestion of playing Time Vault and Voltaic Key in TPS has come up on my team boards many times.   I tried it and didn't like it, but your mileage may vary.  Here is what I said:

Believe it or not, Vault-Key does not go in every deck in Vintage.     TPS uses its tutors to find engines, not two card combo parts.   Too often, you would draw one part and it would be dead for too long.  It's simply more efficient to find something that wins the game by itself.

The same couldn't be said for Tinker-DSC? Or is it more acceptable since Tinker-DSC is only one potential dead card and is a one card combo.

Yeah, Tinker is a two card combo, but that's not what I meant by that.   What I meant is that -- in my view -- TPS doesn't want two card combos where both cards have to be assembled.  With Tinker, you only need to play Tinker.   You don't have to assemble both cards.   Also, if Leviathan is in hand you can pitch it to Force or Misd. 

Also, another thing is that TPS just wants one big turn.  That's why Time Vault is much better in control decks where they can slow down the game a bit to assemble the combo. 

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

I think the point is more if you get 1 combo piece in your hand or 2 tutors you can just key/vault and win. I agree that it isn't a fit in just any deck, but in TPS where there are already a pile of tutors you may as well just "oops I win" a few games. I think we'll end up with pure Tendrils combo, some kind of Ritual Tezz (like Cunningbeaver posted), and pure Tezz lists all of which run Key/Vault. Which is of course ironic considering the standard Gifts win pile costs more mana, is more vulnerable than Key/Vault, took more deck slots, was putting up less numbers than Key/Vault, and yet was broken enough to warrant serious action even though it was supported by an insane engine. (4xMerchant Scroll) I know Gifts was also an engine in addition to a win condition I just felt like pointing that out lol.

[Cunningbeaver]

1- Inkwell Leviathan
1- Regrowth
3- Thrist for Knowledge
1- Tezzeret the Seeker

You opted for Thirsts over Twister, Desire, and Bargain. Isn't the point of running Rituals so that you can play more powerful cards than Thirst? Why did you run the Rituals?

I think it comes down to mindset. Instead of looking at it  as TPS with key/vault why not look at it as tezz with rituals. The deck can play very similar to either deck at any given time. Much of time when I tried mana drain I felt like if it was a ritual I could be more aggressive and get the mana now and force a counter instead of playing reactive and drain something to get mana later. Whether or not the countered card is relevant to the game state often came up as sometimes I was looking for more mana to win now.

I don't think Regrowth is worth bastardizing your manabase for, even if you play Goyfs out of the board. Regrowth is nice with Gifts, but Gush is just as good, if not better much of the time if you run Mystical and/or Iseal. Gifts for Lotus, Demonic, Mystical, and Vamp.

Alot of  my gifts piles have been ending up Will, Regrowth,Key,Vault. Regrowth has also come in real handy mid game to bring back that duress/ancestral/force to put the game over the top.

The suggestion of playing Time Vault and Voltaic Key in TPS has come up on my team boards many times.   I tried it and didn't like it, but your mileage may vary.  Here is what I said:

Believe it or not, Vault-Key does not go in every deck in Vintage.     TPS uses its tutors to find engines, not two card combo parts.   Too often, you would draw one part and it would be dead for too long.  It's simply more efficient to find something that wins the game by itself.

Along these lines couldn't engine pieces be considered combo parts?  How many times are you tutoring for pieces to the chain where if you were only trying to build a 2 piece chain and had one you could just win now?

I agree that sometimes you just tutor to tutor and so and so forth but sometimes you can just tutor for that piece thats missing and wave.  Why not make it easier on yourself and have a 2 card combo available? That in and of itself is cheap AND efficient?

Obviously this list is not optimal, nor it will work or feel comfortable for everyone,but I think we may be getting to a point where we were with gush storm.

[Cunningbeaver]

Maybe going forward there is a solid hybrid out there.

[ErkBek]

I don't think Regrowth is worth bastardizing your manabase for, even if you play Goyfs out of the board. Regrowth is nice with Gifts, but Gush is just as good, if not better much of the time if you run Mystical and/or Iseal. Gifts for Lotus, Demonic, Mystical, and Vamp.

Alot of  my gifts piles have been ending up Will, Regrowth,Key,Vault. Regrowth has also come in real handy mid game to bring back that duress/ancestral/force to put the game over the top.

If you're casting Gifts for that, you'll need at least 5-6 mana post Gifts to actually win (depends on the GY). Wouldn't Gifts for Mystical, Vamp/Seal, DT, Lotus get it done here too (they'll give you MT and VT)?

Mystical on upkeep for Gush
Vamp on mainphase for Will
Gush
Will
Lotus
insane plays -----> Tendrils

That'll do the job with only 4 mana on board (5 if you count replaying the land).

I don't think Regrowth is worth bastardizing your manabase for, even if you play Goyfs out of the board. Regrowth is nice with Gifts, but Gush is just as good, if not better much of the time if you run Mystical and/or Iseal. Gifts for Lotus, Demonic, Mystical, and Vamp.

Alot of  my gifts piles have been ending up Will, Regrowth,Key,Vault. Regrowth has also come in real handy mid game to bring back that duress/ancestral/force to put the game over the top.

I agree that sometimes you just tutor to tutor and so and so forth but sometimes you can just tutor for that piece thats missing and wave.  Why not make it easier on yourself and have a 2 card combo available? That in and of itself is cheap AND efficient?

The thing I've always disliked about TPS is it often times has the wrong balance of mana, protection, and business. Vault-Key enables wins with little mana, but business and protection.

Maybe going forward there is a solid hybrid out there.

Agreed.

[Sean Ryan]

Vault/Key should be in TPS, but not faster grim long style storm combo.

I would make the following changes:

-Street Wraith
-Misdirection
-Fact

+Leviathan
+Cabal Ritual
+Grim Tutor

I don't like Street Wraith as a secondary kill and think Leviathan is a better choice.  Tinker Leviathan helps against Fish decks that give TPS fits, and another out against Shops if neccassary...and its blue.  Grim vs Fact is an interesting choice I would like to hear your thoughts on.

[pierce]

thoughts to oringinal post, not the slew of people who didn't build the deck:

I do agree that with that many md tutors, TPS is a fine archetype to add voltaic key and time vault. The only problems I saw with the list were that I would put a tezzeret in your fact or fiction slot. Fact is too slow for this metagame, and there are only a handful of situations where it is correct to tutor for it, and try to win the game with it. Too few, in all. Tezzeret give you a win post top key lock if you set it up the hard way, which you seem to be. Tezz also sets it up the easy way. Since you still run time walk, you could potentionally win a few games off the right Desire hits via Tezz as well.

The problem with TPS in my touraments has been dredge. Granted my metagame is a combo infested hell, but I contend that TPS has a weak matchup here. 5 sb slots will not do. In addition, tormods crypt seems like the nut low, as chalice stays in vs TPS, and can only hit zero. Relic seems better there. Planar Void seems weak as well, were Pithing Needle stops them from actually getting to draw cards.


in resp to green:
green for regrowth isn't needed if your logic is simply that it's great in gifts piles for vault/key. There's a one blue socery that returns a artifact to your hand. Just run that.

[mike_bergeron]

There's a one blue socery that returns a artifact to your hand. Just run that.

Reconstruction (revised or antiquities)

[ErkBek]

Vault/Key should be in TPS, but not faster grim long style storm combo.

I would make the following changes:

-Street Wraith
-Misdirection
-Fact

+Leviathan
+Cabal Ritual
+Grim Tutor

I don't like Street Wraith as a secondary kill and think Leviathan is a better choice.  Tinker Leviathan helps against Fish decks that give TPS fits, and another out against Shops if neccassary...and its blue.  Grim vs Fact is an interesting choice I would like to hear your thoughts on.

Try not to think of Street Wraith as a secondary kill. He's the backup kill in case Tendrils got RFG'd somehow.

You do bring up a valid point about Inkwell improving the fish matchup though.

I've got my first t1 tournament in 6 months in 2 weeks. Finally some motivation to innovate.

[nineisnoone]

Never been the best combo deck builder, but I just mentioned Doomsday in another post and it got me thinking about the card (which I adore).  So just wanted to throw this out there and see what people think.

Doomsday Stack
Ancestral Recall
Black Lotus (or LED)
Time Vault
Voltaic Key
Research/Development
Lotus Petal

Unfortunately it is a pass-the-turn stack but you only need one blue mana source and one colorless to win off it.  I've never seen anyone mention this stack and thought it might work in a deck with Rituals and Time Vault.

It would also work with anything that lets you draw a card but left you with a blue mana source and a colorless mana source afterwards.

[Stormanimagus]

Never been the best combo deck builder, but I just mentioned Doomsday in another post and it got me thinking about the card (which I adore).  So just wanted to throw this out there and see what people think.

Doomsday Stack
Ancestral Recall
Black Lotus (or LED)
Time Vault
Voltaic Key
Research/Development
Lotus Petal

Unfortunately it is a pass-the-turn stack but you only need one blue mana source and one colorless (and whatever you needed to cast Doomsday) to win off it.  I've never seen anyone mention this stack and thought it might work in a deck with Rituals and Time Vault.

It would also work with anything that lets you draw a card but left you with a blue mana source afterwards.

well, it wouldn't work because it's 6 cards.

there's an easy D-Day stack involving R & D but I can't remember exactly what it is off the top of my head. I like D-Day because it reminds of a combo version of Ichorid. Many of the cards are the same the consistency of the deck can't be argued. It may actually be possible to innovate on it again. Hmmmmm. . .

[nineisnoone]

Never been the best combo deck builder, but I just mentioned Doomsday in another post and it got me thinking about the card (which I adore).  So just wanted to throw this out there and see what people think.

Doomsday Stack
Ancestral Recall
Black Lotus (or LED)
Time Vault
Voltaic Key
Research/Development
Lotus Petal

Unfortunately it is a pass-the-turn stack but you only need one blue mana source and one colorless (and whatever you needed to cast Doomsday) to win off it.  I've never seen anyone mention this stack and thought it might work in a deck with Rituals and Time Vault.

It would also work with anything that lets you draw a card but left you with a blue mana source afterwards.

well, it wouldn't work because it's 6 cards.

there's an easy D-Day stack involving R & D but I can't remember exactly what it is off the top of my head. I like D-Day because it reminds of a combo version of Ichorid. Many of the cards are the same the consistency of the deck can't be argued. It may actually be possible to innovate on it again. Hmmmmm...

And this is why I am not the best combo deck builder.  

Well, okay minus the last Green mana source and requires to win.

And yeah, there are DDay stacks involving R&D.  I'm pretty sure you can pass-the-turn without R&D as well.  It's been awhile since I've messed around with the card.