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Author Topic: Figuring out costs?  (Read 1018 times)
oneofchaos
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« on: May 04, 2009, 09:00:21 am »

Trying to remember how this works.

3 mana open, sphere of resistance is in play.  Can I play tinker saccing the sphere?
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FlyFlySideOfFry
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2009, 12:43:58 pm »

For Sphere or Resistance I am quite sure that you would have to pay the additional 1 mana. I did a bit of searching while looking for the answer to my question and this handy example popped up.

(Excuse my editing here, but it seems worthwhile to include the rule that actually describes the cost being locked in  --Clariax)

409.1f. The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost (for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost (as determined in rule 409.1b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can't be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

409.1g  If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to play mana abilities (see rule 411, "Playing Mana Abilities"). Mana abilities must be played before costs are paid.

409.1h  The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. Unpayable costs can’t be paid.

Example: You play Death Bomb, which costs  and has an additional cost of sacrificing a creature. You sacrifice Thunderscape Familiar, whose effect makes your black spells cost  less to play. Because a spell’s total cost is "locked in" before payments are actually made, you pay , not , even though you’re sacrificing the Familiar.

I also have a similar question regarding additional costs that is slightly different. Say I have a Tidehollow Sculler in play and I cast something like Shrapnel Blast or Tinker. Does my opponent get the card back in his hand from the leaves play ability of Sculler, does my "sac as an additional cost" spell resolve first, or do I get to chose the order they stack in?

409.1i  Once the steps described in 409.1a–h are completed, the spell or ability becomes played. Any abilities that trigger on a spell or ability being played or put onto the stack trigger at this time. If the spell or ability’s controller had priority before playing it, he or she gets priority.

It isn't specifically an ability that triggers on a spell being played, but the specific spell itself does trigger it. I think Shrapnel Blast/Tinker would go on the stack and then Tidehallow would so my opponent gets the card back in his hand before my original spell resolves but I would like some verification. Thank you. Smile
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 11:40:57 pm by Clariax » Logged

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RJ
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 01:06:31 pm »

Ok so the first question is pretty much answered.  The tinker would cost 4 and an artifact.  This is different than the tinker with chalice for 3 in play.  This can be done by saccing the chalice as a cost to play the tinker.

As far as the Tidehollow question, whenever there are triggers during the announcement of another spell, all of those triggers will go on the stack in APNAP order after the announcement and payment are complete.  So you are correct in thinking that your opponent will get the card back after your spell is on the stack, but prior to its resolution.
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FlyFlySideOfFry
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 01:24:44 pm »

Thank you for the confirmation. I was holding out in the hopes for cool tricks but it just didn't seem to make sense for the ability to trigger before the spell went on the stack. Wink
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RJ
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 03:19:24 pm »

Lol..Yeah no cool tricks other than the standard remove the Tidehollow with it's original trigger on the stack play.
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