Gifts Ungiven Guidance

[TorpidNinja]

I've recently gotten back into the Vintage scene in a generous proxy environment so I've decided to try my hand at Storm Combo. While I'm sure I've been playing the deck wrong in a number of ways,  where I've been having the most difficulty is figuring out the best ways to play Gifts Ungiven.

That said, what are the best ways to play Gifts Ungiven with a U/B Tendrils combo framework (which precludes Recoup and Regrowth)? What are some traditional piles based on some typical/general game states which lead to the most success with this archetype?

Many thanks in advance to all who assist.

[Greeg]

Depending on the deck I am playing against, I tend to try to Gifts at the end of opponents turn, or in response to something else they are doing, when they are tapped out (against drain decks).

As for the piles, it really depends on board position. Sometimes you may want to Gifts for a D. Rit, C. Rit, Lotus, and X Mana source. Other times, you may want to show a full tutor package (or at least 3, to guarentee yourself 1) so you can get your Yawg Will.

If there is something you really want, you can always put Tinker in the pile, and the opponent will probably put at least that 1 in the GY because they won't want to see a DSC or Inkwell. Now they have to choose only 1 of the remaining 3, and if they give you Tinker, at least you have a pretty good clock on them.

[Doomsday]

Everyone is going to say that it completely depends on the game state.  What's in your hand, graveyard, on your board, how much mana available this turn and next, etc.

Just don't Gifts for Yawg Will or Tinker unless you're using them as bait, no one will give you those cards.  I guess you could Gifts for Yawg Will + Tinker + the two cards that you actually need to win the game, that way you'll get the other two cards.

[honestabe]

A lot of times, mana sources is all you want, just to add storm

[Harlequin]

For gifts with A, B, C, D - there are 6 possible ways to resolve Gifts.

An easy way to think about it is there are 3 possible divisions, with you getting either half in hand:
AB|CD ... AC|BD ... AD|BC

So goldfish the game a little, and possibly even goldfish games with Gifts in your opener; or even better play test against an actual opponent.  Now when your resolve gifts, give yourself about 15 to 30 seconds to make a gifts pile.  Then lay it on the table, and look at ALL SIX possible outcomes for the gifts.  And decide if you screwed yourself anywhere.  Really take about a minute or two to review every possible combination, and how they would play out.  If you notice any failures, think about what cards you could replace in your pile - and re-review ALL SIX possible outcomes.  

Its important to just take a shot in the dark with 15 or 30 seconds on the clock, because at a tournement, you don't have all day to set up your piles.  Your ability to create and evaluate piles quickly will be dirrectly correlated to how well you play gifts.  You may have more than 15 seconds to resolve Gifts, but remeber that you always want to afford yourself some time to evaluate your choice - and then potentially change a card or two... hense if you can make your "first cut" in 15 seconds or less, you'll be in good shape for tournement play.

It's been said before, that you should win the game with gifts.  The piles you create should be "unbreakable," the worst thing that can happen in an event is you give them 4 cards, and they give you a combination you didn't anticipate and you end up with nothing.

Lastly, if you find any gamesstates that you cannot solve for... post them here on TMD.  Combo players love to "solve" scenarios.  Just be very detailed about what is in play, what is in your GY, what is in your hand, what is in your deck.  And possibly the plays you made leading up to it.  How many cards, and what mana your opponent has open is usefull as well.

[mmcgeach]

there's a thread with some of this discussion in it at the Vintage Open Forum, called TPS Goldfishing : http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=38554.0 scroll down to post #10.

One sort of "standard" gifts package discussed in that thread is : Demonic Tutor, Lotus, Ancestral, Tinker; which is appropriate at the beginning of the game if you're just trying to uh, "get value" out of your Gifts play.

The other way to cheat is to have some other tutor in your hand that lets you get Yawg Will; then you're basically playing Gifts as a way to load the graveyard.

Those are the easiest, or first, things I learned about Gifts.  The other posts here have good stuff about more advanced Gifts plays.