Cards that do different things when played from different zones...

[BC]

I think it would be cool to have a cycle of cards that do one thing when played from your hand, and another when played from your graveyard.  Some preliminary ideas:

Blue Card
2U
Sorcery
Draw two cards
1U, exile Blue Card: Return target creature to its owner's hand.  Use this ability only if Blue Card is in your graveyard.

Red Card
2R
Sorcery
Red Card deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
2RR, exile Red Card: Gain control of target creature until the end of the turn.  That creature gains Haste until end of turn.  Use this ability only if Red Card is in your graveyard.

White Card
2W
Sorcery
Gain 4 life.
1W, exile White Card: Remove target creature from the game.  It's controller draws a card.  Use this ability only if White Card is in your graveyard.

Black Card
2B
Sorcery
Target player discards two cards.
2BB, exile Black Card: Destroy target nonartifact, nonblack creature.  Use this ability only if Black Card is in your graveyard.

Green Card
2G
Sorcery
Put two 1/1 Green Saproling tokens into play.
1G, exile Green Card: Target creature gets +2/+2 until the end of turn.  Use this ability only if Green Card is in your graveyard.

[zeus-online]

Interesting concept...The blue and black ones look really good...And the red one seems decent aswell.

The white and green one seems rather underpowered compared to the rest. (3WW to gain 4 life, remove a creature, and giving the opponent a card?)

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

I would bump the cost of the blue one to 2U to bounce a creature simply because it seems really powerful as is. Also I don't think the white one needs to give your opponent a card considering how borderline useless 4 life for 3 mana is. Other than that they seem really well designed though a keyword for that ability would definitely make it seem more professional. Something like Rework or Redesign to make it look like:

Blue Card
2U
Sorcery
Draw two cards.
Redesign - 2U, Exile Blue Card: Return target creature to its owner's hand. (Redesign only if Blue Card is in your graveyard.)

[Delha]

I really like all of these, the idea is neat, and none feel broken to me. To address the concerns others brought up...


Blue: At sorcery speed, the bounce for  doesn't feel too bad.
Black: Strict upgrade to Mind Rot, might be a bit too good. The CA from this is pretty sweet.
White: Maybe make it instant? At that speed, it doesn't feel like you're overpaying quite so badly.
Green: Maybe cut the costs of each half by a colorless? Or also make this instant?  for +2/+2 at sorcery speed weaker than any other green pump I can think of at the moment. The same for a couple saprolings isn't unreasonable either.

[BC]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said, thanks for the feedback. 

@Delha: My idea was to have them all be Sorceries, and then have the graveyard ability ("Redesign" perhaps) be able to work at instant speed.  So for most of the cards, the graveyard ability is something that typically happens at Instant speed for that color (i.e. Unsummon, Grab the Reins, Swords to Plowshares, Terror, Giant Growth).

[Delha]

@Delha: My idea was to have them all be Sorceries, and then have the graveyard ability ("Redesign" perhaps) be able to work at instant speed.

I'm an idiot. I should've known that all the grave abilities would be instant by default, I think I was just mentally tying this to flashback. Side note: Now understanding the design concept, I like the name Sabot for the ability. I think it embodies the concept of a slow shell which strips off for a faster effect later.

Blue: I'm more inclined to agree with FFSOF now. Seems really good, probably too good.
White: Maybe a Disenchant effect? Might weaken the card too much, since it becomes hard to dump for the second effect if they don't have primary targets.
Green: Definitely leaning towards the cost reduction.

[zeus-online]

Add reminder text or something? "This ability may be used at instant speed" or something like that

[jro]

I like the green one, because the effects make sense to play after each other-- first I make some guys, then I pump them.  It gives the card a coherence that the other examples lack.  For instance, why is the Red one Lightning Bolt into Threaten?  Why not Threaten into Bolt, or Bolt into Panic Attack, or Panic Attack into Threaten, or Stone Rain into Bull Rush, or whatever?

For instance, the Black one could be Mind Rot into Zombify, or better, Ostracize into Zombify, or Doom Blade into Zombify.  The Blue one could be something like Boomerang into Essence Scatter.  Specifically:

Necromantic Hunt
1B
Sorcery
Destroy target non-black creature.
2B, Remove Necromantic Hunt from the game: Put target creature card from an opponent's graveyard onto the battlefield under your control.  Play this ability only if Necromantic Hunt is in your graveyard.

Emphatic Expulsion
1U
Instant
Return target creature to its owner's hand.
2U, Remove Emphatic Expulsion from the game: Counter target creature spell.  Play this ability only if Emphatic Expulsion is in your graveyard.

Looking at these another way, the black one is more or less a color shifted Mind Control, and the blue one is more or less a color shifted Weed Strangle / Brainspoil / Corpsehatch.

I would also make the Green one 2G for two instant speed squirrels and have the graveyard ability be 2G Symbiosis.  And since I'm most of the way there, I'd suggest 3R Panic Attack into 3RR Lava Axe for the Red one and some variant of Embolden into Warrior's Honor for the White one.

To emphasize the overall point I'm trying to make: good card design isn't just making a fairly costed effect that fits into the color pie.  Particularly if you're making a cycle, there should be a sense of purpose to it, an indicator that there's some larger design scheme at work, not just a hodgepodge of abilities.

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

@jro:

The problem with your suggestions is that they opperate under the assumption that I'm going to target the same creature with both abilities. Sure 5 mana to steal a creature may not seem amazing, but Terror to clear early game threats that turns into a super-Zombify for your late-game bomb sure seems insane. Not to mention Emphatic Explusion that lets me Time Walk your early game creature and force you to play around the counter for the rest of the game. When you can split the cost of a card over multiple turns you need to make it cost more, then when you also add the fact that it can recast itself for amazing card advantage you need to add even more casting cost. Anything that copies a marginally playable card and then does even more better cost an arm and a leg. To give you an idea of what your cards would probably cost if printed:

Necromantic Hunt
1BB
Sorcery
Destroy target non-black creature.
3BB, Remove Necromantic Hunt from the game: Put target creature card from an opponent's graveyard onto the battlefield under your control.  Play this ability only if Necromantic Hunt is in your graveyard.

Emphatic Expulsion
2U
Instant
Return target creature to its owner's hand.
2UU, Remove Emphatic Expulsion from the game: Counter target creature spell.  Play this ability only if Emphatic Expulsion is in your graveyard.

The black one would still be an automatic 4-of in any black decks down to at least Extended if not having some Legacy time as well and the blue one would have a fair showing in top-8 decklists as well.

[zeus-online]

You need to make the opposite aswell....Instant first, sorcery from the grave....I'd love it if the sorcery from grave abilities where like ultimatum's or something The instant abilities would ofcourse have to be "not amazing" like remove soul for 4 mana or something

[BC]

Second attempt after feedback.  I truly like the idea of having the main spell logically lead into the graveyard ability, so I'm going to try that.

Blue Card
2U
Sorcery
Draw two cards
Redesign - 1U, discard a card, exile Blue Card: Return target creature to its owner's hand.  (Redesign only if Blue Card is in your graveyard).

Red Card (completely rethought)
2RR
Sorcery
Red Card deals 2 damage to each creature without flying and each player.
Redesign - 3RR, exile Red Card: Creatures you control get +2/+0 until the end of turn.  At the end of turn, destroy all creatures that attacked this turn.  (Redesign only if Red Card is in your graveyard).

White Card (completely rethought)
2W
Sorcery
Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
Redesign - 1W, exile White Card: Remove target creature from the game.  It's controller may return an enchantment or artifact card from their graveyard to their hand.  (Redesign only if White Card is in your graveyard).

Black Card
2BB
Sorcery
Destroy target nonartifact, nonblack creature.
Redesign - 3BB, exile Black Card: Return target creature from a graveyard to the battlefield under your control.  You lose life equal to its power.  (Redesign only if Black Card is in your graveyard).

Green Card
2G
Sorcery
Put two 1/1 Green Saproling tokens into play.
Redesign - 3G, exile Green Card: Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.  (Redesign only if Green Card is in your graveyard).

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

If you're going to do tricky stuff like the Blue Card why not make it like that for all cards? The red card could ask you to sacrifice a creature in addition to other costs instead of destroying all your creatures (because honestly 5 mana+losing all your creatures is more or less an unplayably steep cost even casually), the white card could return target artifact or enchantment in an opponent's graveyard to their hand as part of the cost, the black card could be "pay X life" in addition to the cost to "return a creature with converted mana cost X or less", and the green one could ask you to sacrifice a token and cost only 2G to Redesign. I'm just spitting out ideas. XD

[jro]

I like the direction of the new cards for the most part.  Even something like the added cost to the unsummon effect on the Blue one makes them feel more "integrated".  The only one I have serious misgivings about is the Red one.  Killing your guys (red guys not generally being high toughness) and then following it up with giving your guys an attacking bonus--- but then killing them?  Or is it supposed to be a Wrath for your opponent's attackers (which it currently is)?

@jro:

The problem with your suggestions is that they opperate under the assumption that I'm going to target the same creature with both abilities.

I assumed no such thing, but more importantly, you didn't address the larger point. The idea of using them on the same creature creates an anchor for the flavor of the card, as well as a reason for the two mechanics to be present on the same card.  Adjust the casting costs or abilities as necessary, but give the cards a reason to exist other than being a chimeric mishmash of on-color abilities.

And, for what it's worth (which is zilch since in fact neither you nor I are printing any cards anytime soon), you highly overestimate how good these cards would be.  By a lot.  Many of the best decks in extended win the freaking game on turn 3, not cast sorcery-speed, target-limited removal.

[Delha]

Redesign - 3RR, exile Red Card: Creatures you control get +2/+0 until the end of turn.  At the end of turn, destroy all creatures that attacked this turn.  (Redesign only if Red Card is in your graveyard).

As Jro said, you may want to change this.

Alternately, how about a Relentless Assault effect instead of the pump effect? It justifies the cost much more, and that lets you keep the option of affecting an opponent's creatures. Letting them double up on their alpha strike in return for a Wrath effect feels decidedly Red to me.

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

And, for what it's worth (which is zilch since in fact neither you nor I are printing any cards anytime soon), you highly overestimate how good these cards would be.  By a lot.  Many of the best decks in extended win the freaking game on turn 3, not cast sorcery-speed, target-limited removal.

Aside from Dark Depths getting the god draw or hypergenesis getting like quad dragons in their opening hand what deck is supposed to win on turn 3? Granted there are a lot of creatures and decks "black card" doesn't hit but it would absolutely dominate the ones it does to no end. Ignoring of course how this is of course an instant run as many copies as you can in limited and the whole "breaking standard until all decks are black" thing.

However, I highly agree with your statement that both parts of the card should work off each other and provide some sort of synergy rather than being arbitrary on-color abilities.