Meandeck MUD [FREE Article]

[Smmenen]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/19631_So_Many_Insane_Plays_First_Place_with_MUD.html

Two weeks ago I exhaustively reviewed the performance of MUD in the metagame, looking at various card options that people had been playing since the printing of Lodestone Golem.   This week, I apply that knowledge, and discuss how I built my MUD list, why I think it's the strongest variant, and what alternatives might be available.  

[Killane]

Wow. That deck is a monster. Nice article. I like the fast and energetic writing style - kind of the opposite of how playing against this makes one feel.

I really don't want to play against this any time soon. I'd run it since I have a sick enjoyment of my opponents looking miserable, except it incorporates about $8,000,000 of cards I don't own (ie the vast majority of the manabase).

[Smmenen]

Wow. That deck is a monster. Nice article. I like the fast and energetic writing style - kind of the opposite of how playing against this makes one feel.

I really don't want to play against this any time soon. I'd run it since I have a sick enjoyment of my opponents looking miserable, except it incorporates about $8,000,000 of cards I don't own (ie the vast majority of the manabase).

One of the unfortunate ways in which Legacy has impacted Vintage is the spike in the price of formerly inexpensive cards like Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors and Wasteland. Each of those cards were only a few dollars a little over a year ago.   I am greatly concerned with how much a deck like this costs to play, since it is a great Vintage deck, especially for new players to pick up, and since the Vintage Champs is apparently the only major stateside Vintage tournament anymore, and it's sanctioned (e.g. no proxies).    While I own most of the deck, I no longer own Workshops, and I'm not sure _I'll_ even be able to play this at the Vintage Champs.   

The good news is that many local tournaments provide many proxies, and much of this mana base could be proxied.    And perhaps the best part is that the expense shouldn't dissuade you from having fun with this deck with your friends at the kitchen table, casual play at the store, or online.   Friends should let you proxy as much as you want.   

[Troy_Costisick]

Wow. That deck is a monster. Nice article. I like the fast and energetic writing style - kind of the opposite of how playing against this makes one feel.

I really don't want to play against this any time soon. I'd run it since I have a sick enjoyment of my opponents looking miserable, except it incorporates about $8,000,000 of cards I don't own (ie the vast majority of the manabase).

One of the unfortunate ways in which Legacy has impacted Vintage is the spike in the price of formerly inexpensive cards like Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors and Wasteland. Each of those cards were only a few dollars a little over a year ago.   I am greatly concerned with how much a deck like this costs to play, since it is a great Vintage deck, especially for new players to pick up, and since the Vintage Champs is apparently the only major stateside Vintage tournament anymore, and it's sanctioned (e.g. no proxies). 

This sounds like it would be a very interesting article- or part of an article if you're looking to fill up space.  It used to be the Power 9, Arabian Nights lands, and Mana Drain were expensive.  Now, all kinds of cards are moving up- even the planeswalkers!  Heck, Italian Mana Drains can be bought on SCG for seventy bucks.  That's starting to look reasonable since Underground Sea is now eighty!

[Smmenen]

While I appreciate the suggestion, the problems are rooted in the Reserved List policy, which I've repeatedly written about.   The alternatives are also well known (legalize proxies, abolish the reserved list and reprint staples, etc).    Card accessibility, and specifically Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Arabian Nights and Antiquties was a problem in 1994, let alone 2010, and it prompted the split between Type 1 and Type 2.   That problem has only grown worse with each passing year.    The rise of Legacy has only exacerbated it.   Too many key Vintage staples where printed from August 1993 to February 1994 in far fewer quantities than needed to support a vibrant growing format for 1996, let alone 2010.   

[Troy_Costisick]

While I appreciate the suggestion, the problems are rooted in the Reserved List policy, which I've repeatedly written about.   The alternatives are also well known (legalize proxies, abolish the reserved list and reprint staples, etc).    Card accessibility, and specifically Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Arabian Nights and Antiquties was a problem in 1994, let alone 2010, and it prompted the split between Type 1 and Type 2.   That problem has only grown worse with each passing year.    The rise of Legacy has only exacerbated it.   Too many key Vintage staples where printed from August 1993 to February 1994 in far fewer quantities than needed to support a vibrant growing format for 1996, let alone 2010.   

Yeah, good point about the Reserve List.  What else is there to say?

As for your list, I really admire its focussed dedication.  Running Juggs and Golem is very agressive.  I love the inclusion of Sculpting Steel, too.  It's a very versitile card in this deck.  Thumbs up!

[Smmenen]

People have long mocked Juggernaut in modern Vintage, because a 5 power creature on turn one just isn't fast enough.   

But the reality is that Juggernaut is actually much more of a threat than is appreciated.   In the explanation for the restriction of Mishra's Workshop in 1994, the DCI specifically cited Juggernaut.   And, when Juggernaut was unrestricted, it was the critical part of resurgent Workshop aggro decks, including TnT and Dave Price's Tubbies.   In recent history, Juggernaut was part of multiple SCG p9 winning decks when combined with Trinisphere.   With the printings of Chalice and Thorn in recent years, and now with Lodestone Golem, I believe Juggernaut is at peak power once again.   Turn one Chalice + Juggernaut, and turn two Null Rod + Sphere effect should be enough to lock anyone out of the game long enough to win.   With Brainstorm and Scroll restricted, Vintage decks are alot slower and less consistent, and Null Rod is even more powerful.   Juggernaut plus Null Rod brings a powerful pairing to the format.    The quantity of Sphere effects printed in recent years makes the tempo plan with Juggernaut more potent than ever.   

[Troy_Costisick]

Turn one Chalice + Juggernaut, and turn two Null Rod + Sphere effect should be enough to lock anyone out of the game long enough to win.   With Brainstorm and Scroll restricted, Vintage decks are alot slower and less consistent, and Null Rod is even more powerful.   Juggernaut plus Null Rod brings a powerful pairing to the format.    The quantity of Sphere effects printed in recent years makes the tempo plan with Juggernaut more potent than ever.    

I think this is an important insight.  Since the restriction of Gifts Ungiven, the format has begun to slow and decks have slowly over the last three years, become less consistent as you say.  As a result, over reliance on artifacts became the defacto way to build decks since they require colorless mana and are relatively cheap to play.  I think the reason Tez decks went so long unchecked by Shops was twofold.  First, Shop decks were inconsistent themselves, and second, Tez decks only had to resolve one or two key spells to win.  With the printing of Lodestone, the Sphere density of Shop decks has become extraordinarily high.  Tossing in 3 Scultping Steels only increases that density.  Suddenly, Shop decks are very consistent and there are enough Spheres to make playing cheap spells like Tinker, Key, and Vault difficult to accomplish under the fast clock of Juggs and Golem. 

I think Preordain may change deck speed somewhat.  It'll at least make land drops more consistent.  So Shops will likely remain a good deck choice but still in check so long as it doesn't get restricted.  The wild card here, for me, is Fish decks.  How do you see Noble Fish adapting to MUD decks like yours?

Peace,

-Troy

[Smmenen]

Turn one Chalice + Juggernaut, and turn two Null Rod + Sphere effect should be enough to lock anyone out of the game long enough to win.   With Brainstorm and Scroll restricted, Vintage decks are alot slower and less consistent, and Null Rod is even more powerful.   Juggernaut plus Null Rod brings a powerful pairing to the format.    The quantity of Sphere effects printed in recent years makes the tempo plan with Juggernaut more potent than ever.    

I think this is an important insight.  Since the restriction of Gifts Ungiven, the format has begun to slow and decks have slowly over the last three years, become less consistent as you say.  As a result, over reliance on artifacts became the defacto way to build decks since they require colorless mana and are relatively cheap to play.  I think the reason Tez decks went so long unchecked by Shops was twofold.  First, Shop decks were inconsistent themselves, and second, Tez decks only had to resolve one or two key spells to win.  With the printing of Lodestone, the Sphere density of Shop decks has become extraordinarily high.  Tossing in 3 Scultping Steels only increases that density.  Suddenly, Shop decks are very consistent and there are enough Spheres to make playing cheap spells like Tinker, Key, and Vault difficult to accomplish under the fast clock of Juggs and Golem.  

And, to that I would add that Sculpting Steel addresses one of those cards directly, and Null Rod the other two.   

I think Preordain may change deck speed somewhat.  It'll at least make land drops more consistent.  So Shops will likely remain a good deck choice but still in check so long as it doesn't get restricted.  The wild card here, for me, is Fish decks.  How do you see Noble Fish adapting to MUD decks like yours?

Peace,

-Troy

That's great closing question and if I told you the honest answer, well, I'd be shooting myself in the foot :p.   I'll just promise to tell you the answer in the future

[Troy_Costisick]

Good Answer 

[Neonico]

I have a lot of questions about your choices for the list :

1) Why no mishra's Factory at all ? They are often good at winning a turn earlier once your lock is etablished.

2) Don't the 4 city of traitors give you problems with your manabase ? For me, it's really hard to consider 4 city because of the mulligan rate, and the stability of the manabase against denial decks (mirror and fish). I don't think that you can afford the land loss in many matchups actually, that's why a 2 city of traitors hand would be an auto mulligan for me.

3) The trinisphere issue : i think that it's not just a problem to side out trini on the draw against shop.... The real problem to evaluate trinisphere in this kind of list is how often you will side it out on the play (for me allmost allways) and against mirror match, you'll side it out anyway, both on play and on draw... Same for any wasteland matchup anyway.

4) The number of beaters in the deck : My standart count is at least 2 more, to avoid mulliganning too much the non beaters hands. You seem to have this problem during your tournament, do you consider adding more ?

5) The Sculpting steel issue : while being a great card actually, i would disagree with the statement that the deck need 3 or 4 maindeck Sculpting steels, simply because the card does nothing by itself.... I would at least play 1 more beater instead  of thez 3rd steel  just for this reason.

[matt_sperling]

While I own most of the deck, I no longer own Workshops, and I'm not sure _I'll_ even be able to play this at the Vintage Champs.   

As it approaches let me know if you still a) don't have shops, b) want to play shops.  I probably won't be using them and you can borrow them (4x). 

[Smmenen]

I have a lot of questions about your choices for the list :

1) Why no mishra's Factory at all ? They are often good at winning a turn earlier once your lock is etablished.

Look at the appendix of this article. I play Mishra's Factory in other MUD variants.  In this list, there is a premium on mana consistency to power out beaters to gain a tempo advantage, and in that design approach, Cities have greater marginal utilty than a pair of Factories.  In the Metalworker version, Factory is clearly superior.   Factory can be equipped, deal final damage, and Cities are less important when you have Metalworker.

2) Don't the 4 city of traitors give you problems with your manabase ? For me, it's really hard to consider 4 city because of the mulligan rate, and the stability of the manabase against denial decks (mirror and fish). I don't think that you can afford the land loss in many matchups actually, that's why a 2 city of traitors hand would be an auto mulligan for me.

The very first MUD list by Arthur Tindemans and Koen (Dutchies) ran 4 City of Traitors and 0 Ancient Tomb. 
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/5930_The_Complete_MUD_Primer_Part_1_Development.html

City of Traitors has long been a mana component of MUD.    I would keep a 2 city of traitor hand, depending on what other mana was in hand.   For example, I would gladly keep a hand like this: Mox, Ancient Tomb, City, City, and 3 good artifacts.  I also think that you would be right -- if we were talking about other MUD variants.  Perhaps its too convenient -- and too confusing -- to act as if these various MUD subarchetypes are the same deck.  It leads to people talking past each other.  Look at the Appendix and you'll see my other two approaches to the archetype.

3) The trinisphere issue : i think that it's not just a problem to side out trini on the draw against shop.... The real problem to evaluate trinisphere in this kind of list is how often you will side it out on the play (for me allmost allways) and against mirror match, you'll side it out anyway, both on play and on draw... Same for any wasteland matchup anyway.

I would still keep Trinisphere against Fish decks, and MUD decks on the play.   A double workshop draw or a double mox draw or a mana crypt draw, etc -- there are many combination of hands where Trinisphere can be safely played and survive being Wastelanded. 

4) The number of beaters in the deck : My standart count is at least 2 more, to avoid mulliganning too much the non beaters hands. You seem to have this problem during your tournament, do you consider adding more ?

I discuss this directly in the article.   

5) The Sculpting steel issue : while being a great card actually, i would disagree with the statement that the deck need 3 or 4 maindeck Sculpting steels, simply because the card does nothing by itself.... I would at least play 1 more beater instead  of thez 3rd steel  just for this reason.

Sculpting Steel is not just a weapon, it's also a shield.  It can murder opposing Karns and Tinker targets, which makes it really important.   

[MaximumCDawg]

I played against two people running the suggested Meandeck MUD build tonight in a ten-man, no-proxy vintage tournament.  I was running unpowered Noble Fish.  In relevant part, my deck included 5x Waste/Strip, 4x Quasali, 2x Trygon, 1x Echoing Truth, 1x Recall, 3x Sower; SB contained 2x Naturalize.  The rest of my deck was typical Noble Fish and only marginally helpful.

I took the first match 2 to 1.  I did not take great notes, but the MUD pilot focused on beating me down with Masticores, Juggernauts, and Golems.  His disruption did not really come on-line, at least not in games 1 and 3, and I had plenty of time to draw answers to his creatures.

I lost the second match 0 to 2.  The critical difference was that, in these games, the MUD pilot drew fistfuls of acceleration and powered out massive disruptive threats in the first few turns, and locked me out before I had a chance to get answers on-line.

So, as a Fish pilot, my impression of Meandeck MUD that it shines when it disrupts, not so much when it's focused on beating.  But, of course, my sample is pretty limited.

[Smmenen]

This article has been free for some time.  If you haven't read it, check it out!  Enjoy!

[Cyberpunker]

I think more lock pieces in the main over Juggernaught would be better. Before Lodestone Golem came out, all the MUD lists had mostly cut Juggernaught because it was often too weak and too slow and did not affect the game until 2-3 turns later. 5 dmg can be eaten and the game can still go on as if nothing much happened. You will lose games when you draw Juggernaught instead of another lock piece or threat.

That is why I do not think Juggernaught is good. Lodestone is good because it locks them while beating them down. Its function is primarily a lockpiece that puts pressure on the opponent at the same time. Juggernaught is not a lock piece and does not put enough pressure to really affect the game that much. So yeah, I think I would try to go the route of more Crucible of the Worlds, Sundering Titan, Goblin Welder.

All of this of course in my humble opinion!!!

[Smmenen]

That's a legitimate perspective.   At that time, I was far more interested in Tempo than Locking out the game.   Turn one Juggernaut followed by sequential lock parts wins most games.   Sundering Titan seems really good at the moment, and Welder seems really good.   But I also think that Juggernaut is a fine card, that doesn't get enough credit.

I'm going to try and make a synergy map for my Gencon Report, since I played a modified version of this deck that ran 4 Smokestack, 4 Golem, AND 4 Juggernaut.  

[Cyberpunker]

OH right! That is the lock piece I was forgetting. I think your list is alright and I would cut

-4 Juggernaught
+4 Smokestack

My reasoning is that you want to overwhelm your opponent with threats. As a Blue player, I would not counter Juggernaught but would counter Smokestack in a heartbeat unless I was Oathing or Key/Vault next turn anyways. Tinker may also persuade me not to if I feel that I can outrace your Smokestack but it depends on the feel of the situation.

But that is just me. If you can fit the 7/10 and the 1/1 in there it would be great too. Crucible wouldn't make the cut now...

Yeah I am interested in seeing the breakdown as well!

Although I still think that the Metalworker/Staff combo should be included to race all the other decks.

[Smmenen]

I'm going to address those points, and others made about MUD, more fully in my Gencon Report.  There is alot to say!   Including, commentary on the Top 8 play!