Confidant Control

[Onslaught]

I used to have a lot of fun with this deck, and with the unrestriction of Gush it seems like it could be even better. This deck was always really bad against Workshop stuff, so I'd imagine that's why it isn't seeing a lot of play right now...or maybe this archetype just has a different/commonly used name and I'm an idiot. Most of the unrestricted Gush decks I've seen so far (I haven't looked at Vintage in a long time) are combo decks with a few control, but I liked thinking of Confidant Control as a Grow deck with lots of tempo. So, here is a stab at an updated version with Spell Pierces instead of Mana Drains, Preordain instead of Sleight of Hand, and a few other metagame tweaks.

4 Confidant
3 Tarm
1 Tinker target (I still like Inkwell, but I guess Myr Battlesphere is better for all the Stax?)

1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Imperial Seal
1 Time Walk
1 Regrowth
1 Ancestral
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Preordain
3 Gush

4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce
4 FoW

1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Jace

1 Lotus
1 Emerald
1 Jet
1 Sapphire
1 Island
7 Fetches
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island


I realize this is a profoundly stupid question, but is there anything besides Tarm to play in the beatdown creature slot? Wishful thinking, but maybe the format has changed enough that there is something else viable instead of him. Anyway, this deck was the most fun I ever had playing Vintage. Against stuff like Tezz, you just took your light mana base and played aggro control, assuming the role of the beatdown while disrupting with Duress. Against other more creature based decks, you got to play control and just wait to win off Tinker. Can this kind of deck be viable right now? Maybe something a little more aggressive with Wastelands? Does Jace have to go since I put in Spell Pierces instead of Mana Drain?

[Adan]

4 Confidant

3 Gush

3 Thoughtseize

1 Misdirection

4 FoW

Please don't.

[Onslaught]

Erm, is that really so unusual? I'm running a second Top now too, and so far in testing the life loss has never outweighed the flow of card advantage.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Erm, is that really so unusual? I'm running a second Top now too, and so far in testing the life loss has never outweighed the flow of card advantage.

If you've never lost to flipping two pitch counters and a Tinker target, you haven't been testing enough.

[Onslaught]

Ok, is running a Confidant deck with FoWs and a Tinker target really the only thing worth discussing here? Confidant Control was a viable archetype in late 2009ish and this is basically the same deck with 2 more Gush...but keep nitpicking the life loss aspect I guess?

[Mr. Type 4]

I get it-  This like aggro-control.  Why not work in the Fastbond and 4th Gush?  You're 90% of the way there. 

The life needs to be a consideration now that the Shop decks figured out how to hit harder.  you're highly likely to kill yourself, possibly in some serious situations (for instance, I took 17 in one turn from Bob to lose Game 3 of my Top 4 match last weekend playing a much less suicidal deck).  I'd consider maindeck Nature's claim to help with Shop and to provide last-ditch lifegain.  I'd cut that Mis-D for sure.  it's unnecessary.

[Onslaught]

Nature's Claim seems really nice, that wasn't around the last time I played this deck. What could I drop for Fastbond?

[brokenbacon]

Bob Control is really good, but this is without Gushes. I agree with Adan, in that your life loss is going to be insanely high. 2 Tops will not negate this life loss at all, either. Most of the time people play Gush or they play Bob. Playing both is just a bad thing waiting to happen.
Also, Imperial Seal and Regrowth aren't going to be good at all here. Regrowth sucks in the opening hand and is terrible against MUD. Imperial Seal is just straight card disadvantage - I've never liked the card, except for in Gush Tendrils lists.
Here is a Bob Control list I played recently, it tests fairly well.

4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Spell Pierce
1 Nature’s Claim
1 Hurkyl’s Recall

4 Dark Confidant
3 Trygon Predator

3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Sensei’s Divining Top

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
3 Preordain

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll

1 Tinker
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Time Walk

1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus

1 Tolarian Academy
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Island

SB
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Nature’s Claim
1 Forest
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Perish
1 Doom Blade

Or if you wanted to play a Gush control list, look no further than Brad Granberry's Gush Control (copied from this thread: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=41535.0)

Mana (25)
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
2 Mox Opal

Win (4)
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Control (10)
3 Spell Pierce
3 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

Draw (11)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Gush

Tutors (5)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven

Broken (5)
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will

SB:
3 Duress
1 Mountain
4 Ingot Chewer
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ravenous Trap
4 Yixlid Jailer


However, I would never ever recommend playing Gush and Bob in the same deck.

[personalbackfire]

I agree with Adan, in that your life loss is going to be insanely high. 2 Tops will not negate this life loss at all, either. Most of the time people play Gush or they play Bob. Playing both is just a bad thing waiting to happen..

However, I would never ever recommend playing Gush and Bob in the same deck.

Not to pick on you, but it has been done before to success.

Demars got first place at a SCG event awhile ago with this list:

Drain Tendrils

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Gush
4 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
2 Mana Drain
2 Dark Confidant
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Mind’s Desire
1 Fastbond
1 High Tide

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Library of Alexandria

Sideboard

2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Extirpate
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Oxidize
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Trickbind
2 Quieron Dryad

Granted that was the last Gush go around, but I don't think out right dismissing Gush + Bob is the right thing to do.

Currently I don't know that you would want Bob and Gush together, but that isn't to say that it can't be right in the future.

[brokenbacon]

I mean yeah that looks to be a solid list with both cards, but I think the fact that it packs only 2 Bob but 4 Brainstorm and 4 Merchant Scroll means it's really leaning towards Gush. Also correct me if I'm wrong but this was before MUD was really rampant in the meta (that is to say, no Lodestone Golem) - thus you had fewer long games with this deck as opposed to the ones today vs. MUD in which Bob can really show you why flipping fives sucks.
Given the current state of affairs, games will definitely last more than a few turns on average vs. MUD, thus making the deck less explosive than it wants to be.
Also, I think I've heard this before I just can't remember where (so if someone thinks I'm stealing their opinion I'm sorry): Bob is a somewhat longer term card, in that it wins attrition wars. Gush is way more explosive, winning games by chaining Gushes. Mixing your aims when building a deck is not something that helps the process.

[Onslaught]

I've been playing with 2 Gush lately and it's worked out fairly nicely. The old established version of this deck that won lots of Magic League mini tournaments (lol) had a Gush in it, so is it really so outlandish to run a second one? Especially if Misdirection is cut.

Either way, I don't want the discussion about this archetype to revolve around my idiotic use of too many Gushes. I think the main shell of the Confidant Control archetype is the 7 Duress package. Otherwise, it would just be one of those decklists posted above. Here is the original list posted by Smmenen in his article from 2009:

4 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Inkwell Leviathan

4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
4 Sleight of Hand
1 Gush
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Regrowth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
2 Ingot Chewer
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Darkblast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Pyroblast
1 Rebuild
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Island
2 Volcanic Island

I guess the first thing to note is that this deck's worst matchup by far was Stax, which is now the most played deck (right?). It was so good against everything else though, so I think it's still worth trying. Here are some options I've been considering, including new cards that weren't released at the time this article was written:

Jace - I've been trying him x1 off and on, and while sometimes hard to cast without a Drain (nothing in the deck costs more than 2 besides Tinker/Yawgmoth's), he is even more amazing in this deck than most others. Once you dismantle their hand with the 7 Duress package, fatesealing while Tarm beats for a few turns is a fast win. The bounce also gives you time to find Tinker against random creature beatdown, which goes along with your role as the slower control deck in that matchup.

Mental Misstep - I haven't tested this yet because space is so tight, and I can't tell how good it would be in a deck with so many copies of Duress. Would it be silly to think of it as a sideboard card?

Myr Battlesphere - I still like Inkwell, Sphinx dominates random aggro, Blightsteel is the fastest game winner, and Battlesphere is good vs Stax...tough call.

Spell Pierce vs. Mana Drain - Does the increased prevalence of Stax make it worth reconsidering using Spell Pierce over Drain?

Preordain - I feel bad for Sleight of Hand. There's no decision to be made here at all, how sad for Sleight because it had cool art.

Gush - Three more copies of this are available now, but apparently this is a bad idea.

Nature's Claim - I want to maindeck one of these pretty bad, but again space issues. The board is pretty much 100% geared against MUD already, but maybe Nature's Claim frees up space by moving away from the red splash. I was thinking something like: -2 Volcanic Island, -2 Ingot Chewer, -1 REB, -1 Pyroblast for +1 Forest, +3 Nature's Claim, +2 Mental Misstep.

Trygon Predator - I swear I want to cut Tarm, even though he blocks while finding Tinker, wins in three or four turns against slower decks, comes down a turn faster than Trygon, etc...I just really dislike Tarm even though it's the secondary win condition. Trygon is slower, but much better against Stax, so...?

[Shax]

I think Stax is slowly losing ground now, but its relative power is still on par or better than the blue decks unless they pack hate still. I suppose players get bored of saying ''Lodestone Golem''.. swing till you win. BoM having TurboTezzeret win was a bit of a shocker since I think any of the 'Turbo' list were a bit trashy and that John Jones was getting awfully lucky to take first in those events for about two months straight. I guess I have a boot in my mouth now. One MUD in that top 8, and two Dredge.

Anyways that was just a nitpick. Bob control is good and I would run the maximum Gush with a Fastbond and then you have two to three Bobs. Four bobs is a bit overkill unless you ditch some other high cost spells to not make the ship sink every few games. Since you have Green/Black make sure you use those unless you want a four color deck which opens you up to everything for the cost of Ancient Grudge if you think that is worth it or Chewer. Really you need a plan of attack the benefits from A: Gush and B: Dark Confidant. I always used to use Tendrils or EtW since Bob does actually get swings in on the opponents that matter and if they are running MUD then you should be blasting them with Ancient Grudge or Nature's Claim and at worst use Hurkyl's Recall to get ever how many Bob swings and then combo off. I was never that much of a fan of Thoughtseize, but against Big Blue this card is excellent and against MUD on the play as well. The about it is that against Dredge it is a blank that cost 2 life unless you hit Chalice of the Void or Unmask game one which I think your artifact hate would be usefull against anyways. Punishes players who do not play correctly since maximizing Bob flips and Gush oppurtunities are key.

[Mr. Type 4]

I swear I want to cut Tarm

My big issue with this guy is that he really doesn't do anything.  You have a lot of hand destruction but it doesn't protect against the fast time Vault wins that people can just produce off the top-deck, and hand removal also sucks against Div Top which a lot of people play. 

It's probably more important that you have a way to "combo out" yourself.  This will help when you take a bunch of damage off Confidant and need to win before you kill yourself.  If you instead just drop a Tarmogoyf when you're sitting at 3 life with Confidant out, you're going to sweating that next upkeep.  Something to think about.

[Onslaught]

Maybe that means the Tinker target should be Blightsteel for that "I have to win right now" element?

[brokenbacon]

Well yeah arguably Blightsteel is the best target right now for the sheer "answer this or lose" power it carries.

[ludollu]

Hello.

I Played a confidant control deck at the BOM.
I'm a noob yet I finished 11th (7-1-1).
I'm either very lucky or my list is not so bad (or a little of both).

My list :

4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Pierce
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Nature's Claim
//14
4 Dark Confidant
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
//7
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
//4
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
//4
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Trygon Predator
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Blightsteel Colossus
//7
//36
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
//6
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
//18

Sideboard:

4 Leyline of the Void
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Nature's Claim
1 Naturalize
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Darkblast
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Mindbreak Trap
//15

Mental Misstep was good all the day. Countering Ancestral Recall, Fastbond, Pyroblast, Thoughseize, etc. Versus Dredge It's was also a good card to stop nature's claim, darkblast or therapy.

If you have some ideas to improve my list ...

[Mr. Type 4]

Hitting Blightsteel off Bob sucks pretty hard.  I lost the critical game 3 of a top 4 two weeks ago because of it, and I was waaay ahead, poised to win that turn.  You just have to be wary of the fact that it can happen to you.  Note that Bob maher himself lost to Confidant damage in finals of the Vintage Championship.

Mental Misstep was good all the day. Countering Ancestral Recall, Fastbond, Pyroblast, Thoughseize, etc. Versus Dredge It's was also a good card to stop nature's claim, darkblast or therapy.

I just cant imagine playing 4x of a card maindeck that is so bad vs Shop in the US metagame.  I guess the rest of your deck with the Steel Sabotages, trygon etc helps.  

I'm a noob yet I finished 11th (7-1-1).

What decks did you play against?  which one was the loss?

[Onslaught]

Here's the most recent build I've been playing:

4 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Myr Battlesphere

4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize

4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain

4 Preordain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Gush

1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Noxious Revival

1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tinker

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

7 Fetches
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island

SB: 2 Nature's Claim
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 2 Steel Sabotage
SB: 1 Forest
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 1 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Echoing Truth

I liked having two Gush a lot more than just one, I'll probably drop a Preordain to bring another Gush back. I thought I would hate cutting Regrowth for Noxious Revival, but it's actually kinda cool. Since you have 7 Duress, Noxious can pretty much be a free Time Walk a lot of the time if you know they have nothing relevant. Putting a land on top of an opponent's deck for 2 life is a lot better than it sounds. It doesn't even feel so bad when you use it as a Regrowth, since the lower cost/instant lets you keep Drain mana up or whatever. I hate Myr Battlesphere so much, but this deck needs all the help it can get against Workshops. The one (and only?) flux slot is the Jace. It should probably be a maindeck Nature's Claim, or back to Misdirection if MUD wasn't so popular.

I tried playing on Cockatrice, but it seems like MWS has more Vintage opponents still. When an opponent did join afer half an hour, hi opening play was double Black Lotus. I PM'ed Smmenen to see if he cared to followup on his article about this deck, but no reply. I'm still having a lot of fun with this. It seems to have mad game against pretty much everything except MUD, though Oath can also be tough. Against other stuff though: you don't really care about Null Rods, Tarm can block non evasive fishy people while you set up a Tinker or Jace, 7 Duress is good against storm or other blue control, only 17 mana is great vs. other blue decks, etc.

[ludollu]

I played against MUD, Oath, Painter, Ichorid, two Gush storm, two Jace Control and finally a Madness

Match 1 vs MUD (2-1)
Round 1 : I win the roll and I start with land + mox + mox I tinker few turns after and my opponent try a Duplicant. I counter it with Steel Sabotage.
Round 2 : I control the early game (Tangle Wire x2) until my opponent play a Golem :'( I play 2 Tarmogoyf but after 2 Chalice of the Void (one and two counter) and after a Duplicant I loose ...
Round 3 : My oppontent play a Sphere of Resistant then I play Wasteland and Nature's Claim (against his Sol Ring) to mana screw him. I kill few turns after with a Tinker + BSC

Match 2 vs Oath (2-0)
Round 1 : The first game was very tight. I Force of Will a tinker turn one. I Mental Misstep twice : a Vampiric Tutor and a Brainstorm My opponent give me tokens and I start to kill him but he draw and play a Oath :'( He reveal an Elephant which destroyed my three lands and I kill him with three 3/3 and two 1/1 ^^
Round 2 : For the second game my opponent play two Oath but he doesn't have his Forbidden Orchard. After few turns he tutorise his land and he Oath twice. His second creature was the last card in his library ... so he loose ^^

Match 3 vs Painter (2-1)
Round 1 : He has a good hand and he win easily.
Round 2 & 3 : I draw more and I play lot's of anti-artefact ... I win !

Match 4 vs Ichorid (2-0)
Round 1 : My opponent mull to one card and I start with land, Black Lotus, Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf. I win.
Round 2 : I start the game with Leyline (+ Mental Misstep and Wasteland in hand). My opponent play Unmask (and take Mental Misstep) then I draw a demonic Tutor and I search Yixlid Jailer. Few turns after my opponent resolve a Nature's Claim but I Tinker BSC for the win.

Match 5 vs GushStorm (2-0)
Round 1 : I play a Tarmogoyf quickly which was Repeal. So I re-played my Tarmo which was re-Repeal. So I play two Tarmo !!! And my opponent play a Jace. But I win few turns later : my opponent doesn't found his Yawgmoth's Will after time walk + Jace's Brainstorm.
Round 2 : After some turn, my opponent try a demonic to play fastbond, I Misstep so he Force ; also I mindbreak Trap Finally I win.

Match 6 vs GushStorm (0-2)
Round 1 : I begin to attack the mana base of my opponent ; I waste a land and destroy an artefact. To continue I try a Yawgzebul but he force. Finally, my opponent do something like that : fasbond, land, gush, land, gush, yawgzebul, etc. tendrils :'(
Round 2 : I remember that he tinker for a black lotus and then play a yawgzebul ftw ...

Match 7 vs JaceControl (1-1)
Round 1 : My opponent resolve a Trygon Predator and does nothing else. From my side, I played a Sensei whixh found ... nothing, not even a fetch ...
Round 2 : My opponent played a Dark Confidant + Sower into my Tarmogoyf :'( I'm close to the defeat when he reveal BSC to his Dark Confidant I played tinker to Inkwell ; I was to five lifes and my opponent can only deal four damages I win ^^
Round 3 : I have in hand Time Walk, Tinker, Yawgmoth's Will and all my manas are tapped. My opponent play Key-Vault :'( But, he can't kill me in the five additionnal turns ...

Match 8 vs JaceControl (2-0)
Round 1 & 2 : I draw more so I win more ...

Match 9 vs Madness (2-1)
Round 1 : My opponent play a bazaar + mox + mox. He draw a lot, exile my Tarmo, counter my tinker, etc. I loose.
Round 2 : I put Leyline in game ftw.
Round 3 : My hand was Underground Sea, Mox Sapphire, Black Lotus, Tinker, Mental Misstep and two random. I played land, mox, black, tinker. My opponent try to reb my tinker so I misstep. I win

[keys]

ludollu: Your aggro approach to the strategy is very interesting.  Thanks for the report!  I'm going to have to consider MM more seriously now...

To the OP: Confidant Control is one of the most fun Vintage archetypes and I love how customizable it is.  Right now I'm playing a straight U/B version that is similar to some of the BUG "Trygon Tezz" lists but loses Trygons, Nature's Claim, and 1 Jace for Thoughtseizes, Engineered Explosives, and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas.  Tezz 2.0 is an explosive win condition that has a lot of similarities with Tinker.  He costs an additional mana, which is significant, but he can kill just as quickly, and is harder to remove.

This is my list:

4 Dark Confidant
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
1 Mind Twist
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
4 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard:
2 Doom Blade
1 Darkblast
2 Annul
2 Energy Flux
2 Mindbreak Trap
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Yixlid Jailer

My friend piloted something similar to 2nd place at a small local tournament: http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5640&iddeck=40807

It might be slightly worse against Oath and MUD without the maindeck Trygons and Claim, but the manabase is tighter, and the additional disruption from Thoughtseize, Twist and the explosiveness of Tezz improve the Storm and Jace/Tezz matchups.

Cheers

[Onslaught]

Oh cool, the tournament your friend got 2nd at is the closest Vintage tournament to me (I live in Irvine) and I'd definitely like to attend one day.

You're right about the archetype being extremely customizable. When I look at your list, it feels so much more controllish than what I've been playing. I think of mine as a Gro deck without the Gro, so I really love the 7 Duress package. Also, another key difference between our lists is the vulnerability to Null Rod. I don't really care if they resolve it, but with your full jewelry/Time Vault you probably have to fight over it more. Is Null Rod not seen that much right now? A while ago it was heavily represented with various GW(B) beats going around.

[keys]

Yeah, Null Rod hurts, but there's Hurkyl's and Tinker/Tezz still fight through it.  I think if you're going for a Aggro/Control "Gro" type build, ludollu's list looks really strong, but if you just want to draw a bunch of cards and beat with robots, U/B Confidant is a lot of fun.

Knight-Ware throws great tournies.  If you're in the LA area you should check them out.

[Onslaught]

I've been playing a lot lately and just wanted to say Noxious Revival is really freaking good.

[Onslaught]

So I've been flirting with some other decks lately, and all they have done is remind me of why I like this particular archetype so much. It has some cool bullet points going for it:

-Playing with seven copies of Duress is Really Good (and fun). I usually complain about cards that can be liabilities against Workshops, but T1 Duress T2 Confidant is the crux this deck so I'm sticking with seven.

-It draws business spells in the mid-game more frequently than other decks. There are no dead cards like Time Vault, and it only has 18 mana sources. Combined with four Preordain, you really shine after the first few turns. Blow up their hand, resolve a Confidant, and begin a constant stream of juice while they draw lands and stuff.

-It's immune to Null Rod. I know this is a stupid talking point since it seems like there aren't as many Null Rods around now as there were a year or two ago, but I still think it's cool.


So those are the main points that I think define this deck, and ultimately they are the key things that make this deck fun to play (for me at least). Anything else I'm definitely open to changing and would love some input. After the 18 mana sources, 4 Confidant/7 Duress package, and the draw power/tutoring, the remaining cards up for discussion are:

-Tarmogoyf: I hate this card so much. I've tried a 2/1 Tarm/Quirion split as well, but Tarm is just so much better against MUD (and probably just in general). He never does anything, but there isn't really any creature to put in this slot. Trygon is too expensive, and nobody else is as efficient as Tarm. With such a low mana curve, a two drop beater is mandatory to speed up the clock...otherwise I might as well add lands and play Jace Control or something. I'd love to cut this if at all possible.

-Jace: I put him in the slot that used to be taken by Misdirection. I like him at x1, and I don't think a second would be wise with so little mana.

-Sensei's Divining Top: Currently at two, which just seems weird to see every time I type out my list. I'm never mad to draw this, and there are 7 Fetches/Confidant...so maybe two is the right number. Maybe drop one for a second Gush?

-Noxious Revival: I put this in to see how it compared to Regrowth, and surprisingly I'm going to keep Noxious Revival in Regrowth's old slot. So far, the versatility of being able to Time Walk by giving them a fetchland on top when you have Tarm going wild has outweighed the pain of how bad it is when you use it as a weaker Regrowth.

-Mana Drain: Two of these has been pretty much perfect. Spell Pierce seemed like it would be better in this slot since keeping U open is infinitely easier for this deck than having UU available, but I was dead wrong. This deck thrives on the mid-game, and that's where you just plain want the hard counter. You can usually Duress the early game threats that Spell Pierce would have caught anyway. I don't think I'd want a third copy of this, so I def don't see myself running 2 Drains + X amount of Spell Pierce.

-Gush: I had two for a while, but it's currently back to just one. I still think two or three Gush could be viable with Confidant, but then you definitely want some kind of combo kill (and Fastbond) instead of primarily winning with creatures attacking. I'd gladly drop Tarms to fit stuff like that, but it needs more than just the three Tarm slots and eats into the 7 Duress package.

-The Tinker Target: BSC is fine and all, but I think I still want Inkwell back in this slot. The times I rely on Tinker to save me are the same times when I have nothing in my hand to protect the Tinkerbot. Inkwell is just as susceptible to Hurkyl's as BSC, but at least he is immune to STP and Chain of Vapor. The times where Tinker is a finisher that I can protect, Inkwell will usually only need to swing twice due to Confidant/Tarm beats. One turn slower than BSC, but I think of Tinker in this deck as a late-game out against stuff like Noble Fish instead of an early "oops I win" that BSC achieves. My artifact count is so low that I couldn't even go for an early BSC anyway.

I liked the old board with 2 Volcanic, 2 REB, and Ingot Chewers (one of my fave cards), but that was back before Workshops were the most played archetype and before Nature's Claim existed. I tried a UB version without Tarms (and added Wastes/Strips) to justify using red in the board, but it was as terrible as it sounds. Even if I dropped Tarm, I'd probably stick with UBG due to the current power of Nature's Claim. REBs for killing a resolved Jace or Tezz remains tempting though.

Here's my current list:

4 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Blightsteel Colossus

4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize

4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
1 Hurkyl's Recall

4 Preordain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Gush

1 Noxious Revival
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

7 Fetches
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island

SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Hurky's Recall
SB: 1 Steel Sabotage
SB: 3 Nature's Claim
SB: 2 Island

[Onslaught]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/usnat11/day1#10

I guess playing Bob and Gush together is viable after all...

[Adan]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/usnat11/day1#10

I guess playing Bob and Gush together is viable after all...

This makes me nosedive pretty hard, especially after I performed quite well with a very streamlined Spanish Gush list. I hope Smennenenen and Mr. Type4 are going to write a report about GenCon. The lists don't look too bad, but I bet I would suicide myself out of any tournament where I'd touch that deck. I'm kinda speechless so far.

[hitman]

Steve has had one up in the reports forum.