|
dangerlinto
|
 |
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2015, 03:19:57 pm » |
|
I'd play this in mono-blue control. It's better than paying 4 life for a dismember.
MBC is probably a tier-2 deck right now; tho, thanks to a poor delver matchup. Stellar workshop matchup, tho.
I wonder about that. Because in a lot of cases, the "removal" from a 3/2 flyer to a 2/2 ground-pounder buys a lot more time for MBC to stabilize behind Jace. As you mentioned, the 4 life was a lot to give up. You can buy 2 or 3 turns off this instead of that 4 life and if you land Jace, a good chunk of the time you can take the card advantage hit by bouncing it (30+% of the time it's just mana back to their hand). I think you are still pretty much in for trouble against delver with MUC, but then maybe this card improves that matchup a little.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
vaughnbros
|
 |
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2015, 07:24:34 pm » |
|
I'd play this in mono-blue control. It's better than paying 4 life for a dismember.
MBC is probably a tier-2 deck right now; tho, thanks to a poor delver matchup. Stellar workshop matchup, tho.
I wonder about that. Because in a lot of cases, the "removal" from a 3/2 flyer to a 2/2 ground-pounder buys a lot more time for MBC to stabilize behind Jace. As you mentioned, the 4 life was a lot to give up. You can buy 2 or 3 turns off this instead of that 4 life and if you land Jace, a good chunk of the time you can take the card advantage hit by bouncing it (30+% of the time it's just mana back to their hand). 1U and a card to turn a 3/2 flier into a 2/2 morph just sounds terrible. In the scenario you just laid out you just paid 1U, a card, and a jace activation to exile a creature and draw your opponent a card... Just play Unsummon at this point. I'm apparently still not understanding the allure of this card. I'd play both of these cards in a heartbeat over this:  
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Protoaddict
|
 |
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2015, 12:51:22 am » |
|
Neither are instant, so an argument could be made.
I think in any tempo based deck, if you really need to remove a creature, Vapor snag beats out most options, or boomerang if you need more versatility in mono blue. Neither see play. I am not sure I see the need for this card in the current meta. Yes it hits blightsteel and Pyromancer, and yadda yadda, but is that vector of attack something that we have been hard pressed for?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dangerlinto
|
 |
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2015, 08:57:51 am » |
|
I'd play this in mono-blue control. It's better than paying 4 life for a dismember.
MBC is probably a tier-2 deck right now; tho, thanks to a poor delver matchup. Stellar workshop matchup, tho.
I wonder about that. Because in a lot of cases, the "removal" from a 3/2 flyer to a 2/2 ground-pounder buys a lot more time for MBC to stabilize behind Jace. As you mentioned, the 4 life was a lot to give up. You can buy 2 or 3 turns off this instead of that 4 life and if you land Jace, a good chunk of the time you can take the card advantage hit by bouncing it (30+% of the time it's just mana back to their hand). 1U and a card to turn a 3/2 flier into a 2/2 morph just sounds terrible. In the scenario you just laid out you just paid 1U, a card, and a jace activation to exile a creature and draw your opponent a card... Just play Unsummon at this point. I'm apparently still not understanding the allure of this card. I'd play both of these cards in a heartbeat over this:   Sometimes, when you are playing big blue control, you do stuff like waste two cards to handle the board because you know you'll gain control of the game. Unsummoning a delver is a ridiculous way to hold on to hold onto your jace. The end result of that is 3 turns of unsummoning a delver. Not good value for my 2UU. Where as with this, I could land jace, fateseal your top card, hit the delver and take the 2 points and now I'm sitting pretty knowing exactly what your card is on the floor and either handle it or not with my jace still on the board. You can't point at the cost of this card and compare it to any other cards - each time you will fail in the comparison because there will be a situation this card handles that this doesnt. It's an instant. It exlies. It's blue. It's only 2 mana. That doesn't mean it's going to be sliced bread, but it definitely worth looking at in certain decks.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
tito del monte
|
 |
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2015, 09:17:10 am » |
|
t's an instant. It exlies. It's blue. It's only 2 mana.
That doesn't mean it's going to be sliced bread, but it definitely worth looking at in certain decks. Seems a perfectly reasonable and realistic assessment of a card that is at least playable and very much in Magic's best colour. One slight downside I see, is that I *think* unlike a morphed card, a manifested card has a CMC, meaning you can't just wipe them away with an Engineered Explosives on 0, which is a shame, as you might otherwise expect to find the two cards in the same deck: Trinket-fuelled MUC or some kind of Landstill build for example. Correct me if I'm wrong obviously. Anyway, it's an upgrade on Curse of the Swine, which I feel is probably the nearest card to this that we've seen. And I'm sure someone is going to give the thing a try at least. Not everything has to be uber-broken - and most of us would probably rather keep it that. In that respect, this seems to be a good design, that could or could not find an interesting niche. For an uncommon in a new set, I'll happy settle for that level of ambiguity in power level.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
fsecco
|
 |
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2015, 09:30:47 am » |
|
As far as I know, while face-down, Manifested and Morphed cards are exactly the same. Maro even said in his blog that they chose to do Manifest in the same block as Morph because it's easier for players to understand it.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dangerlinto
|
 |
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2015, 09:35:15 am » |
|
One slight downside I see, is that I *think* unlike a morphed card, a manifested card has a CMC, meaning you can't just wipe them away with an Engineered Explosives on 0, which is a shame, as you might otherwise expect to find the two cards in the same deck: Trinket-fuelled MUC or some kind of Landstill build for example. Correct me if I'm wrong obviously.
A Manifested card has CMC 0. Explosives will blow it up good. Repeal would cost just U, etc...
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
tito del monte
|
 |
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2015, 11:14:01 am » |
|
Ah OK sweet - I just thought because the cost to flip it over was its actual CMC rather than a separate (morph) cost it would be considered as having a CMC. But that's good to know! 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
mmcgeach
|
 |
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2015, 11:36:20 am » |
|
Yeah, I dunno if using this on a flipped delver is the greatest thing ever. From the mono-blue control perspective: usually you have a snapcaster or trinket mage out and can use that to block the 2/2 manifest and protect your jace - a 2/2 on the ground is a lot easier to deal with than a 3/2 flier. Using it on a pyromancer seems better... plus then your EE on zero hits the manifest pyromancer replacement, the pyromancer tokens, and all the flipped delvers.
On the other hand, this would probably compete for (maindeck) space with repeal, which is by far my favorite thing to do to a flipped delver; but probably does find a spot in the sideboard alongside the propagandas.
But, man, this thing hits griselbrand and blightsteel and pyromancer and damn near everything. Maybe a good comparison is Echoing Truth?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ben_berry
|
 |
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2015, 12:59:48 pm » |
|
If I had to guess I'd say this was actually meant to be used on Kitchen Finks.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
dangerlinto
|
 |
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2015, 01:17:05 pm » |
|
If I had to guess I'd say this was actually meant to be used on Kitchen Finks.
That seems likely. Grafdigger's Cage was constructed entirely for Standard/Modern problems - it was just a "bonus" it worked well in Vintage.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|