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Petko
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« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2004, 11:38:14 pm » |
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I completely agree with you, Paul.
With Richard showing great success with Landstill, many players around here sleeved it up. It's relatively cheap to build and that would result in an even greater occurance of the deck. Plus Richard's success in Montreal popularized it even more.
Ray was playing RG for as long as I could remember. I also remember him having hard-fought matches against Richard's Landstill. Ray just continued to tweak his RG until he came up with something that could handle an environment with a lot of Landstill.
The type of metagame is a huge indication of how well certain decks will perform in that metagame. Although play skill is also a large factor, one still should think twice about bringing Landstill into an Oshawa Stompy infested metagame.
Again, the metagame will always shift to deal with the most prevailant deck in that metagame. I don't think I've ever seen a tourny where Peter did poorly with Dragon just a while ago, now, the amount of hate is unreal. Last two tournaments I brought Dragon I was completely clobbered. Although Lady Luck was definately not on my side, I was still completely hated out. Heck, I've even seen Al side in the majority of his sideboard against Dragon one round.
In regards to the topic at hand, Keeper is a very customizable deck; this allows it to be geared towards to metagame which the deck will be played in. I really don't think there is a "standard" Keeper deck, although I've seen A LOT of people just netdeck Zherbus' build. What I don't agree with this is that certain card choices may not be that appropriate in a metagame other than his.
Looking over your build, Jakedasnake, I see that you have made steps into combating the growing popularity of aggressive decks. I'm also tweaking around with the spot removal in my build; right now I'm running three Swords to Plowshares main with one in the sideboard. My metagame is more budget oriented and there is quite a bit of aggro and usually some other randomness as well. This is why I run three to four Cunning Wishes main (depending if I'm devoting another slot to more maind eck spot removal or trying something new), as I need to be able to handle any situation I come across.
All I can say is continue to tweak until you are satisfied with your deck's ability to handle your own metagame.
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Different name, same Frenchie!
<3 Toad
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Chaos Blade
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« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2004, 05:39:27 pm » |
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What do you guys think of a maindeck D blow and Vampiric Tutor? So far Vamp has been ok but I have been debating on D Blow. I want to meta for Ur Landstill Tog variants etc.
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Mixing Mike
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« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2004, 07:40:27 pm » |
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Here is what i like about control - it can adapt to the meta better than any deck out there. It can win in any meta. We don't see it winning as often as before because it is not being played by the top players as much. About time someone else said Control was still the strongest archtype. Personally, I think that once people realize that they still need MD creature hate like they did in July of last year, then people will stop glorifying the 'Rise of Aggro'. I think another factor in the current aggro wave is that combo is so hard to *win* with right now that not to many people play it. Now getting back on track, has anyone else been testing the Abyss/Morphling thing other than me? It's really worth looking into. I'll PM my list out to anyone who wants a look at it. |
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Chaos Blade
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« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2004, 08:15:02 pm » |
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I think Humilty in the board is a better choice. Other than casting cost it works better with your win if you are using Decree.
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Ultima
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« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2004, 09:25:32 pm » |
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Actually, i have been thinking and wanting to test the landstill matchup more.
I have played keeper for some time and i know that the amount of control landstill is packing is a bit more than keeper can handle especially with misdirection.
Therefore, i have begun testing with Tsabo's web in the board to improve this matchup and it has been very goood so far.
If you get a chnace you should try this if you expect alot of landstill adnd the ever difficult fish matchup as well.
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Team Evil Deed- You don't know the power of the darkside.
Team GRO- Ours are bigger than yours.
Every man dies. But not every man really lives.
Were you a man who once said Death smiles at all of us. All a man can do is smile back.
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Chaos Blade
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« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2004, 09:51:55 pm » |
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Wouldnt it mess up your own Mana Denial function? It does seem interesting though.
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Ultima
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« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2004, 11:44:51 am » |
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Why would it mess p the mana denial exactly?
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Team Evil Deed- You don't know the power of the darkside.
Team GRO- Ours are bigger than yours.
Every man dies. But not every man really lives.
Were you a man who once said Death smiles at all of us. All a man can do is smile back.
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Chaos Blade
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« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2004, 12:25:29 pm » |
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Wouldnt it stop your Wastelands from using its effect? If I read the card right.
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Eddie
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 361
Mr. Monster
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« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2004, 05:27:28 pm » |
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Tsabo's Web: When ~this~ comes into play, draw a card. ; Lands with an activated ability that doesn't produce mana don't untap during their controllers' untap steps.
I don't see any problem with this and wastelands, other than you can use them only once (so probably not for mana).
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No room in the house exceeds a length of twenty-five feet, let alone fifty feet, let alone fifty-six and a half feet, and yet Chad and Daisy's voices are echoing, each call responding with an entirely separate answer. In the living room, Navidson discovers the echoes emanating from a dark, doorless hallway which has appeared out of nowhere in the west wall.
House of Leaves - Danielewski
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Chaos Blade
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« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2004, 05:44:33 pm » |
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Ahhhh I see I see now I get the card. Its really badass, as it shuts down Man Lands. Ill try this biatch out.
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Jakedasnake
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« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2004, 11:58:30 pm » |
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Just thought I'd mention that I've replaced the two Damping Matrix with a Humility and Vampiric Tutor.
The change has been nothing but excellent. It's almost never a dead draw, and it does a TON to seal the game.
I've also been considering dropping 2 Stifle for a Dismantling Blow and Mind Twist.
Thoughts?
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"Benjamin Franklin was a founding father. He fatherly founded that lightning was made of electricity. Electricity in the sky."-Jeremy Lavine
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2004, 12:40:44 am » |
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How is a Keeper deck with 2 MD Stifle and 2 MD Matrix geared to take down Green Aggro? Somebody should change the title of this thread, its a total misnomer. If you really see the deck that mutch consider a Hibernation in the SB, 2 Scepters MD and a Humility MD.
I think D.Blow MD is a good idea considering the current meta, and is your list missing something (No Gorilla Shaman)?
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Chaos Blade
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« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2004, 10:19:27 am » |
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I have ran one D. Blow for awhile and it was ok. Even though I didnt have much testing with it I dropped it for a Mind Twist. I dontk now if i should of done that or not.
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2004, 11:09:36 am » |
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Cut Mindtwist? You really shouldn't cut Mindtwist for Spot Removal. I have no clue why anyone would ever cut Mindtwist in this meta or any meta for that matter.
How do people feel about 4 STP, 3 MD 1 SB? I think the majority of players are stigmatized to only use a combination of 3, in Modern Keeper. Unless you see the Keeper mirror match 24/7, STP #3 has to be better than Stifle MD ... and thats coming from me (Total Stifle Whore).
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Spizzard
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« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2004, 11:10:29 am » |
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Dropping Mind Twist is a nono... It crushes aggro if executed.
Therefore, dropping a Dismantaling Blow is well worth it. D.Blow is situational and useful vs a fraction of the decks, Mind Twist *is* useful vs everything (using it vs everything is a different story).
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nietzreznor
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« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2004, 12:05:32 pm » |
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3 STP seems like a lot. Granted, it may be better than stifle against most aggro decks, but getting your hand flooded with swords in matchups where they're not that great is annoying. A 3rd decree wouldn't be bad, though, and with 3 decrees a third swords probably isn't as necessary.
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Jakedasnake
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« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2004, 10:05:24 pm » |
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Mind Twist, in my opinion, SUCKS ASS against Big 0. First off, making them discard Squee's isn't much advantage to you. Secondly, the deck plays 8 madness creatures, 4 of which cost zero. Considering that you'd need to drain into a Mind Twist to have any effect early game, they'd probably already have some sort of engine out.
Mind Twist ISN'T very good against aggro. Feel free to disagree.
Mind Twist would only be for GAT and Hulk, and the mirror.
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"Benjamin Franklin was a founding father. He fatherly founded that lightning was made of electricity. Electricity in the sky."-Jeremy Lavine
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2004, 10:47:54 pm » |
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Ok, Mind Twist was banned for a reason. If you see enough of O.Stompy that your considering cutting Mind Twist to improve the matchup, why in the hell are you playing Keeper in the first place?
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Jakedasnake
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« Reply #78 on: January 28, 2004, 11:25:37 pm » |
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Mind Twist is good when:
The opponent has a large grip.
Your opponent isn't playing Misdirection.
You can play it early for large.
It's bad when:
The opponent is in top deck mode.
Your opponent is playing Bazaar/Squee, or fast combo.
Your opponent plays Misdirection, or has the ability to counter.
You need it to be a blue card.
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"Benjamin Franklin was a founding father. He fatherly founded that lightning was made of electricity. Electricity in the sky."-Jeremy Lavine
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Ultima
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« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2004, 12:32:20 am » |
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Mind twist is too random IMO, it has that ability to just win games, but i'd rather have the consistency.
D. blow although giving the ability to draw cards, is far to expensive to really be effective outside of a nice drain, which puts it at the same level as twist in the early game and thus not optimal IMO.
The twist issue is still being debated but really it just seems that the people that play it rely on past experience to warrant its spot.
Personally, i have played it and it surely does win games, but in this meta where everything is so fast and going for your face i'd rather play more consistency than hope for that lucky draw wtih twist in the first hand.
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Team Evil Deed- You don't know the power of the darkside.
Team GRO- Ours are bigger than yours.
Every man dies. But not every man really lives.
Were you a man who once said Death smiles at all of us. All a man can do is smile back.
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