My Neo Academy

[KandyKid]

Ive been playing Neo-Academy for a long time now, started out being really scrubby but now, 1 year later, I am amoungst the elite when it comes to neo-academy

Here is the Deck..

The Blue Stuff...

3. Big Blue
1. Capsize(Alternate Win Condition, Infinite mana with candelabra and Academy)
1. Frantic Search
4. Impulse
1. Time Spiral
1. Tinker(to get the jar/candle)
1. Stroke of Genius
1. Windfall
3. Meditate

= 16

The Black Stuff...

1. Demonic Tutor
1. Vampiric Tutor
1. Will

=3

The Green Stuff...

1. Regrowth
1. Crop Rotation
1. Fastbond

=3

The Red Stuff...

1. Wheel of Fortune

=2

The Brown Stuff...

6. Moxes
1. Lotus
2. Candles
1. Mana Vault
1. Mana Crypt
1. Grim Monolith
1. Memory Jar
1. Sol Ring
4. Helm of Awakening
3. Defense Grid (TECH)

= 23

The Base...

3. Underground Sea
1. UP
4. CoB
4. Gemstone Mine
1. ACADEMY
1. Deserted Temple(some of you hate it, BUT IT STAYS!

= 14

Some reasons for choices....

1. DGrids over Abayences... They dont CanTrip BUT they do power the Academy and Work EVERY TURN. They have Bad Synergy with helms, but when playing, one knows when to drop what.

2. No Geyser... I went with a merchant scroll over it, merchatn scroll is a tutor for 1 mana(Most of the time there is a helm in play   ) and it goes in your hand, not on top of your library.

3. LOA and Temple... They are just that damn good, fact they sometimes you need the colored mana source, they more than make up for it. LOA is great against control when you can go off early. The temple goes great with ACADEMY and LOA and it also filters mana, has great synergy with candles and i can empty my mana pool into it if needed.

4. Grim... Its free mana, why not play it??

Tell me what you all think!... I probably forgot to mention something, but it looks fine to me (IRL i only have 8/10 p10 cards) but ill get the rest sooner or later!  

I know Im over by one card, that would be the LOA, jsut testing it out

Ill put in a Geyser when I get one.

[PsychoCid]

You're wasting about 3 slots on artifacts and 3-5 on land.

Abeyance is better than Grid, as the cantrip is worth a lot, and if you have to drop a Grid early, paying 4 mana to Impulse eot would suck.

LoA is too slow for combo decks.

I prefer Braingeyser to Torch, and usually Merchant Scroll doesn't belong.

2 Meditates is a dangerously low count.

You lack 4 FoW entirely, this isn't anything that can be overlooked.

Even with Tinker, MemJar usually isn't a good tool for Academy.  Yes, 7 new cards is wonderful, but it's too clunky as a whole.

[hippie tourach]

Meditate is amazing--you want 4 to go off really well.

Capsize is no MoM, as the combo requires 7 artifacts in play.  How do you call it an "alternate win condition" when you don't have MoM in the first place?

Merchant Scroll is limited usability--the sorceries are more important than instants in this deck--usually you want to tutor for a draw-7 in early game or combo component later.

Run Braingeyser, since it can be cast on yourself   I do it all the time, and it wins me the game when I do it.  Torch sucks--what is a "utility creature" that Academy worries about?

3 Defense Grid... compared to 4 FoW and 2 Abeyance...  Don't you think Defense Grid + Helm of Awakening is a wonderful combo?  You always drop Helms when you have them... so I don't know what you mean by knowing when to drop what...

LoA will give you sometimes 1 or 2 draws.  Deserted Temple is never as good as Candelabra.  Just don't run it.

I personally like MJar.  It's cheaper than Time Spiral, and sometimes more effective.  But it's a slot that can go either way.

Mox Diamond is bad when you run 10 lands, which is what you should be doing   Speaking of lands, where is UP?

Will doesn't usually net many cards--and if you're in a hole, you should play 'twister or Spiral.  It can be good, but the deck just doesn't have the slots.  Right now you'll be rolling over to any deck with 4 FoW, so I think Will can take the cut.

[MoreFling]

wonder what he'll do if the opponents plays a turn1 academy (besides merely crying).

[KandyKid]

Answeres to Q's you guys have:

PhsycoCid: what in the world would i impulse at eot if i had a defense grid in play??? You are aware taht i can impulse during my turn, right!?!?

Hyppie Tourach: Will can take the cut: are you on crack? Seriously, cutting will from this deck is like cutting is like cutting trenches from a trenches deck, you jsut cant do it.

Also, This deck doest roll over to 4 FoW. Defense Grids are a must counter, which eats up forces. Fact i do have some troubles, i dont roll over and die.

Also, Capsize + Candelabra + Tolarian Academy = infinte mana. (I always have atleast 5 artifacts in play, helms lessen the cost of buyback aswell)

Also, the torch stays because this deck has some problems with Sui Black. First turn Negator and second turn Duress + Duress or Hymn is a beating. The fact taht it cant be misdirected is cool.

MorFling: You ever heard of a card called capsize???

Ill reply some more, but now i gotta go write a provincial, TTYL.

[PsychoCid]

Quote Run Braingeyser, since it can be cast on yourself  I do it all the time, and it wins me the game when I do it. Torch sucks--what is a "utility creature" that Academy worries about?

I do agree with Geyser over Torch, but the latter part is just stupid.  Ever heard of Gorilla Shaman?  And then there are non-utility creatures that you still might need to fear, but much less so if you can go off fast enough.

Quote PhsycoCid: what in the world would i impulse at eot if i had a defense grid in play??? You are aware taht i can impulse during my turn, right!?!?

My name is right in front of you on the board and you still couldn't spell it right.  Proven your incompetence, you have.  You Impulse at eot to set up your hand to go off on yours, that's how it works.  Duh you can Impulse during your turn, but you only do that when you're trying to go off.  Usually you set yourself up, first.  Lots of ignorant people try to play complicated decks, so it's no surprise most of them don't know how to work them.

Quote Ive been playing Neo-Academy for a long time now, started out being really scrubby but now, 1 year later, I am amoungst the elite when it comes to neo-academy

Well, sure, your playing skills with the deck COULD be well off, given that I haven't ever seen you play.  But the deck itself needs help.  Don't ask for it if you don't want it, though.

[the phoenix]

Yawgmoth's Will is a bad card choice because you also run Twister and Spiral, and because you can't go crazy the turn you play it (which is what you want to do) since you'll remove too many key cards from the game.

Geyser is very important IMO. Not only is it a second win condition, but often you'll use it on yourself for something like 20 cards, and then you'll be able to go off. And, um, the cards generally tend to go into your hand, not to the top of your library.

Mind Over Matter is simply a staple card in the deck. Defense Grid is dead against many decks and, against counter decks, you're better off with cards like Meditate (4 of em) and MOM which are *also* must counters but *aren't* dead against so many decks.

I wouldn't run Tropical Islands main. True, you have just as many green spells as black, but don't forget about Negator and Mind Twist in the board. Some people are saying that Jar isn't good in this deck, but I definately disagree. It often makes Tinker a must-counter, it's a good fail-safe device in case you stall when you try to go off, and it often allows you to go off after setting yourself up perfectly with your original hand.

Four copies of Meditate are quite important. Not only are they da bomb when going off, but sometimes serve as a last ditch effort (no, not the card) when you're low on life and don't have the necessary cards in hand to go off.

And like others have said, Torch, Mox Diamond, and Merchant Scroll are all sub-par. And you need some UPs.

Lastly, CandyKid and PsychoCid (it rhymes! ), do you have to be so argumentative? Insults tend to snowball . This comment is also directed at MoreFling, but that wouldn't have rhymed ...

[hippie tourach]

My Neo-Academy runs very well without Will... hmm...

the pheonix covered why its not good enough to deserve the slot.

Defense Grid is not a must-counter when you play with Helms.

Quote I do agree with Geyser over Torch, but the latter part is just stupid.  Ever heard of Gorilla Shaman?  And then there are non-utility creatures that you still might need to fear, but much less so if you can go off fast enough.

Academy has a problem if its wrecked by Gorilla Shaman.  Maybe slowed down by a turn or so if its dropped first turn, but Torch won't do anything about that anyway.

[the phoenix]

Quote (hippie tourach @ June 20 2002,20:49)Defense Grid is not a must-counter when you play with Helms.

In case that was directed at me, yeah I know. He said it, and I was just driving my point home.

[hippie tourach]

Quote (the phoenix @ June 20 2002,19:57)In case that was directed at me, yeah I know. He said it, and I was just driving my point home.

It wasn't.  I agree with what you said to him.

[KandyKid]

Test them in your own decks before you diss them. Thats all i have to say

And I SHOULD run a geyser, but the fact is, I dont have one   , pretty sad taht i have most of the P9 but not some random card

[hippie tourach]

I have tested Defense Grids.  I found them to be far inferior to Abeyance, since they don't cantrip, often don't even work, and the extra turns of protection are unnecessary in a combo deck.

The "don't diss the card if you haven't tested it" argument is stupid, anyway.  What do you think you would say if I posted a deck with Great Wall and said "Test it before you diss it"?

Sometimes you can tell that a card is bad (or inferior to another) simply by reading its text and thinking about your deck.  Defense Grid + Helms = bad synergy.

[Rico Suave]

Defense Grids aren't bad or anything.  They do have bad synergy with Helms, but they don't suck absolutely.

Despite that, I still think Abeyances are better.

[Justin]

listen to psychocid and a few others on this post. the defense grids, the torch and the LoA are ass, and the land count is too high. i play 11 land including the tolarian in mine and find that to be the right count. AND GET A BRAINGEYSER! unless you get seriously stalled, which you probably wont recover from anyway, the gorilla shaman is not a big enough deal to run torch anyway. you should go off almost immediately, the keeper player or sligh or whoever wont have a ton of available red mana to activate it.

[Zharradan]

I'd be interested in any play advice (or a pointer to a primer .. I couldn't find one on BD) people have for Academy.

I've tried it out a little (not the above decklist) and found myself making many sub-optimal moves. The "correct" move at any given time (unless you have already "gone off") does not often seem to be easy to detect. At least, not unless you have been playing the deck for a long time... which I obviously have not.

[Siral]

I dont love combo decks but i have tested them to learn how to play vs.

One of the most important things in a combo deck like Neo-Academy is surely the mana base

4 Underground Sea
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy

I think this is the exact configuratio of the mana base since you must have a strip mine to remove the opponent academy if you wanna win

Geyser is one of the another important card of the deck.
Usually Academy player plays a little Geyser on himself (little is about 12-20 cards ) and then start with the real combo

I really hate Helm of Awakening.
Grim monolith, 6 mox, 1 Lotus, 1 Sol Ring, 1 mana Vault, 1 Mana Crypt, also a Lotus petal. I dont see the need of other acceleration. And a Helm is also a great advantage for opponent (think about a no powered Mono U that thanks to your helm play a second turn BtB or a Mono red that play Blood Moon)

My actual playtesting list is

7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Grim Monolith
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Memory Jar

4 Force of Will
3 Big Blue
1 Braingeyser
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Power Artifact (Infinite Mana with Monolith)
1 Tinker
1 Timespiral
1 Windfall
4 Impulse
4 Meditate
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mystical Tutor

1 Whell of Fortune

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

2 Abeyance

1 Regrowth
1 Crop Rotation


4 City of Brass
4 Underground Sea
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy


Sideboard

you can use a lot of cards in Academy Sideboard:

Defense Grid (anti control)
Phyrexian Negator (Kill him with 5/5 guys is more funny than let him draw all the deck )
Red Elemental Blast (Back to Basics is not friend of this deck)
Blue Elemental Blast (Blood Moon......argh)
Seal of Cleansing, Dismantling Blow, Disenchant (Null Rod is the real enemy of this deck)
Powder Keg (gain tempo vs aggro deck if the combo dont work quickly)

[hippie tourach]

Strip Mine in a 5 color combo deck is not a good idea.  Some Academies run Lingering Mirage or Capsize that can deal with another Academy and also have other uses, but I just stick it through for games 2 and 3--they are so rare that there's no point in specifically maindecking against it.

I run in SB Seal of Cleansing for B2B Blood Moon Null Rod and Negator/Dibs/Duress for control.  Running tons and tons of REBs and Misdirections and Abeyances doesn't seem worth it when you can just use an alternate win condition

Helms power the deck incredibly--I'd say they give you at least 1 turn faster kills on average.  The advantage to your opponent is minimal--the biggest things they will play off it are Nether Void and Blood Moon (B2B is no problem) which both suck and which you have to FoW.  But sacrificing a turn in which you could have killed them lets them play those cards anyway, so it makes no difference there.  It does make a difference against decks without those cards, and that's why Helms are worth it.

I run:

4 Impulse
4 Meditate
4 Force of Will
1 Frantic Search
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Windfall
1 Time Spiral
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Mind over Matter
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Braingeyser

2 Abeyance

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Fastbond
1 Crop Rotation
1 Regrowth

1 Wheel of Fortune

1 Memory Jar
4 Helm of Awakening
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
2 Lion’s Eye Diamond

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Tolarian Academy

SB: 4 Phyrexian Negator
SB: 4 Serendib Efreet
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 4 Seal of Cleansing

Zharradan: I don't know of a primer, and I don't know that it's possible to make one (or one for any combo deck for that matter).  The process is so intricate and complex that a primer couldn't do it justice.  I've gotten any skill in playing the deck that I have (not that it's much ) just from practice.

[Zharradan]

Quote (hippie tourach @ June 24 2002,13:54)Zharradan: I don't know of a primer, and I don't know that it's possible to make one (or one for any combo deck for that matter).  The process is so intricate and complex that a primer couldn't do it justice.  I've gotten any skill in playing the deck that I have (not that it's much ) just from practice.

I think the main issues I find myself having is working out what to tutor for, and knowing when to mulligan. Just testing the deck in solitaire I have found a few times when I thought it should go off but instead completely fizzled... and other times when I didn't think it would work but thought "what the hell" and managed to pull out the zillion point stroke on turn 2.

I guess it all comes down to practice... but I doubt I'll spend any serious amount of play time with this deck. I just like to stick my fingers into all the pies   .. but pure combo like this isn't really for me. To me, this seems like a "cool trick" deck more than anything. (yes yes, I know it is rather competitive ;p)

... one thing I did notice however is that playing this deck can use up a lot of time. It is "fast" in the sense that you get a turn 3 kill, but that third turn can take forever.

[cooberp]

Eeeeeeeeewwwwwww.  There are three Academy threads going now; one of them has a bunch of posts that are informed and make sense.  This isn't it.  I posted 17 or so points of consensus wisdom on the deck in another one of them, and am working on a primer that I will hopefully get Matt D'Avanzo to collaborate with me on that will alleviate much of this inexperience.