tinker & jar in academy?

[Justin]

Hola boys & girls. Im playing an academy deck identical to the one used in rakso's "How to play control vol. CXXXVII". its referred to as D'Avanzo Academy 2002. I personally love this deck, and if i ever run into d'avanzo the guys got a coffee on me. This list didnt run tinker & jar, and ran a 4th meditate and a 4th helm of awakening in their place. Has anybody tested both ways? what were the results?

[Razor]

I run foil Tinker & Jar over the fourth Meditate and Helms as advised by Matt this spring.

3 Helms is enough.  A fourth Meditate would be nice at times but is not as good as another draw-7 or the Impulse.  3 Impulse, 3 Meditate works well, if I recall.

Aside: Defense Grids are horrible versus using 4 FoW and 2 Abeyance - D.G. have no synergy with the all-important Helms.

[Justin]

defense grids are horrible, i never understood why people would justify their use in academy. thanks!

[KandyKid]

tinker and jar are a must in this deck, i dont see how anybody can argue against that. Last time i checked, draw 7's tend to be pretty good in this deck.

[BigChuck]

I had a jar, along with the 4th meditates and helms...If you posted your current decklist it would be more helpful. I don't mind helping if the decklist is here, but I'm not going to go searching around the net for it

[BigChuck]

Also, if you have the cards to run academy, I would honestly try to put them to better use. While I really enjoyed playing academy, some games you just completely fizzle and will not win. That happened around 25% of the time to me, which I found to be way too much. Keeper is more consistant for my tastes.

[Akuma (gio)]

"Also, if you have the cards to run academy, I would honestly try to put them to better use."

I don't really agree with this comment. I think it's always a good idea to try out other decks. Besides being enjoyable, it also makes you a better overall player, letting you get a feel for other archetypes.

Just because I have all the cards to play Keeper doesn't mean that all I should play is Keeper. If you do have the cards, consider yourself lucky, you can play almost any deck type you like.

[Justin]

kandykid -draw 7s are good, but another may not be needed. arent you the guy that runs defense grids and yawgs will?
i typically go off on 2nd or 3rd turn.

decklist

mana (28)
4 helm of awakening
8 solomoxen
1 lotus petal
1 mana vault
1 mana crypt
1 grim monolith
1 fastbond
4 city of brass
4 gemstone mine
2 undiscovered paradise
1 tolarian academy

combo (4)
2 candelabra of tawnos
1 capsize
1 mind over matter

draw/search/protection (28)
4 force of will
4 impulse
4 meditate
1 wheel of fortune
1 timewalk
1 timetwister
1 timespiral
1 windfall
1 ancestral recall
1 frantic search
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 mystical tutor
1 regrowth
1 crop rotation
2 abeyance
1 stroke of genius
1 braingeyser

so thats it, i dont think i missed anything. lemme know what you thik, and give props to d'avanzo for this build. thanks!

[Justin]

2 cards away from being black bordered, anyone got a beta lotus? timetwister?

[Justin]

bigchuk - i know keeper is more consistent, but academy is flashy. i stopped playing magic back when "the deck" consisted of autumn willow/abyss. slow, drawn out games just arent really my taste anymore. i do agree with you that keeper is more consistent, and i own a keeper deck fully powered, but honestly i cant bring myself to play it.

[Razor]

Word has it that Academy is still the fastest combo deck around - even post-restriction.

I refined the following list to within one card of Matt D'Avanzo's this past March.  He liked 3 REB and 3 Misdirections SB (versus my 4 and 3) if I recall.

I'd also like to mention that Bargain-Rector-Bloom is another bloody fast and reliable combo deck, too.

//NAME: Academy v.1.6
// Razor
// ray@webinmotion.net
// 02-03-17
//Mana 27
        3 Helm of Awakening
        2 Undiscovered Paradise
        2 Underground Sea
        4 Gemstone Mine
        4 City of Brass
        1 Tolarian Academy
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Mana Vault
        1 Grim Monolith
//Accel/Combo 21
        2 Candelabra of Tawnos
        1 Capsize
        1 Fastbond
        1 Mind over Matter
        3 Impulse
        3 Meditate
        1 Frantic Search
        1 Wheel of Fortune
        1 Timetwister
        1 Time Spiral
        1 Windfall
        1 Memory Jar
        1 Stroke of Genius
        1 Braingeyser
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
// Disruption 6
        4 Force of Will
        2 Abeyance
//  Searching 6
        1 Tinker
        1 Crop Rotation
        1 Mystical Tutor
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Regrowth
SB:  4 Phyrexian Negator
SB:  4 Red Elemental Blast
SB:  3 Misdirection
SB:  1 Mind Twist
SB:  1 Balance
SB:  2 Seal of Cleansing

[Tatanka]

I'm the guy who use yawgmoth's will and defense grids....
and I'm the guy who will be flammed.

First here's my decklist


Land (13)
2 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Underground Sea
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Tolarian Academy

Artefact (17)
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Diamond
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
2 Helm of awakening
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Memory Jar
2 Defense grid

Blue (23)
1 Capsize
1 Mind over Matter
3 Impulse
3 Meditate
1 Frantic Search
1 Timetwister
1 Time Spiral
1 Windfall
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Braingeyser
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor

Black/Green/Red (7)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's will
1 Regrowth
1 Crop Rotation
1 Fastbond
1 Wheel of Fortune

SB:  4 Phyrexian Negator
SB:  1 Compost
SB:  3 Misdirection
SB:  1 Defense Grid
SB:  1 Tranquil Domain
SB:  1 Balance
SB:  1 Seal of Cleansing
SB:  2 Interdict
SB:  1 Abeyance

Of course the tinker/jar is good, it's not becaus Matt don't play with them that you have to copy him

Defense grid are good in my case becaus of the metagame wich consist in a shitload of mono-U and almost 0 keepers, if I would met keepers instead of mono U then go for abeyance over defense grids and fit one more helm over mox diamond.

Yawgmoth's will just was plain good in every game I draw it, try to fit one instead of a impulse then after 10-12 games if you don't like it I won't argue just come back to your impulse.  After all we have different metagame and different play style.  At least give it a try before saying it's not good.

Justin, you told "kandykid -draw 7s are good, but another may not be needed."
On this point you are totally wrong another just "ok" draw 7 is all what we need to make the deck really, really, really good!
I guess from top Tier 2 to Tier 1.

btw I'm also 2 cards away from having it all foil and bb, missing lotus and mox jet

Tatanka

[halo99]

Quote (Razor @ June 27 2002,16:45)I'd also like to mention that Bargain-Rector-Bloom is another bloody fast and reliable combo deck, too.

Razor, i don't suppose that you'd want to post a decklist for that combo would you? i don't think that i've ever seen it.

[Freddie]

Memory jar is too good not to play IMHO, it also adds another win condition.

Just in case of extracts, or cap, or ivory mask, ect.

-Freddie

[Justin]

TATANKA - i appreciate the response, and theres no need to get testy just because people flame your defense grid tech. just because matt doesnt have the tinker/jar combo in the deck listed doesnt mean that it is not useable. THATS THE POINT OF DISCUSSION. and another thing, kandykid runs defense grids in his academy, so just because he doesnt run
abeyance "doesnt mean you have to copy him"

as for everyone else -thanks for your response! -Justin

[Razor]

Halo99,

For the Bargain-Bloom decklist see the "Combo/Control Decks" thread.

[Tatanka]

Justin: My apologies if I seemed testy to you, sorry

 
btw I haven't see kandykid decklist, maybe you could post it

Tatanka

[Justin]

Tatanka -heres kandykids decklist thread

kandykids thread

[Amuraivel]

I am very obviously, but how does this deck usually win?
What are the alternative win conditions?
I see alot of mana, artifacts and academy...but well do you deck the guy?
Realistically, by which turn should one have already won?
Has anybody ever tried a fireball in the thing?

Just curious,

--Amuraivel

[cooberp]

TinkerJar are great.  I really don't understand the opposition to them.  Razor, your list looks very strong.  Chuck, I have never found Academy to Just Stall.  It is prone to some atrocious draws, to be sure, but it very very rarely can't finish what it starts.  Tatanka, if you know you'll be flamed because you're pushing cards that aren't good for Academy, why post?
I still like Mox Diamond...I think I'm just lucky with it.
I stand by saying that this is The Best deck to play in a largely aggressive metagame.  If it has a competent pilot it simply ignores what are they called again um creatures and will post a favorable record against all but the best Keeper players, who still won't take better than 60%--perfectly reasonable if you expect to face a lot of aggressive decks, one of which is likely to overwhelm Keeper if it's a big tourney with a lot of matches.  Its only really bad matchup is mono-blue.

[Justin]

i cut an impulse and a meditate to facilitate the tinker/jar combo. i love it. jsut figured id follow up on the post. and yes the idea is to deck the opponent with a massive stroke of genius or braingeyser. people have tried fireball (in the shape of kaervek's torch) but it generally is not needed imho. now if i can just find a foil tinker......