My Gro

[TheNuOne]

I'm new to T1, although I may see if I can make use of my old Gro cards after Extended rotates. Heres what I got.

//NAME: T1 Gro
//  Mana (13)
        4 Land Grant
        1 Library of Alexandria
        4 Island
        4 Tropical Island
//  Creatures (8)
        4 Quirion Dryad
        4 Serendib Efreet
//  Countermagic (16)
        4 Force of Will
        4 Misdirection
        4 Daze
        2 Foil
        2 Disrupt
//  Card Drawing (14)
        4 Sleight of Hand
        4 Gush
        4 Brainstorm
        2 Opt
//  Broken Stuff (9)
        1 Mystical Tutor
        1 Regrowth
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
        1 Timetwister
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Emerald
//  Sideboard (15)
SB:  4 Submerge
SB:  4 Chill
SB:  4 Emerald Charm
SB:  3 Dodecapod

Obviously based on an earlier list, with some personal additions/subtractions. Help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Bastian]

Gro isn't exactly an amazing deck in type 1, but it can do well. You're packing some power on the deck. I must say that if I were you I'd be playing Super gro which is far more versatile than gro... But since you posted a gro deck I'll try to restrict myself to your choice.

6 Island
4 Tropical Island
4 Land Grant
1 Forest
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald

4 Quirion Dryad
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
3 Merfolk Looter

4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection
2 Foil

4 Sleight of Hand
4 Gush
4 Brainstorm
4 Opt

1 Regrowth
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Winter Orb

SB:
4 Submerge
4 Chill
4 Emerald Charm
3 Dodecapod

Given the fast mana control decks have access to, I don't think you should be packing either dazes or disrupt, since the 1 mana they have to pay should be easily accessible.

Mystical tutor, timetwister and library of alexandria have no place in the deck. Just because that they're broken cards it doesn't mean they're broken in all decks! (well, the tutor isn't broken, but you don't need it in gro)

Serendib efreet is too expensive for the deck I think. Nimble mongoose is a beating and it will evade abyss. Since we're not playing super gro (and hence no enforcer or meddling mage) I picked up werebears, although wild mongrels or perhaps gaea's skyfolk... (I really hate the U/G version of this deck).
And finally, for the biggest mistake of them all, where is winter orb?  

...and we still have 5 free slots for which I can't find any decent spell or creature... Why? I think you should be playing super gro, which would give you tithe (very good), swords to plowshares, enforcer and meddling mage. It makes the deck better vs certain matches like suicide black (at least you wouldn't be packing dodecapods on the SB if you had white! You would have enforcer instead...).

I hope this was enlightening enough and that someone can fill the gaps I left to fill.

[TheNuOne]

Its a common misconception that Super-Gro played Tithe. Good Super-Gro decks never played Tithe. Nimble Mongoose is an idea, as it evades Abyss, but Serendib gets around Moat. Also, Serendib is not too expensive for the deck, at least not in testing...also, a blue creature is helpful for Dryad. You say that Mystical Tutor, Library of Alexandria, and Timetwister have no place in this deck. I've liked them all so far...please explain your reasoning. A first turn library is a huge advantege, especially with Gush in the deck (which can raise hand size by 4). Timetwister is a must in any blue-based aggressive deck, as refilling your hand is a very good thing. Mystical Tutor for Time Walk, Timetwister, or Ancestral Recall is never bad, and as a blue spell, it gives Dryad a counter. You could be right about Daze and Disrupt...but what to put in is the question? I rarely have mana open, so putting in something like Mana Drain or Mana Leak is tough...though I probably wouldn't even play mana drain, as this deck has few ways to bleed of colorless mana. And you said it yourself, if Daze and Disrupt aren't needed cause of fast mana...is Winter Orb? With Moxen, Sol Ring, and Lotus, along with redundant mana bases, I don't think that Winter Orb would really do that much. To tell you the truth, Super-Gro only played Meddling Mage, Mystic Enforcer, and Swords...not Tithe. I really can't see that many advanteges to disrupting the mana base and sutracting things to make it super-gro. Sorry.

[Bastian]

It may be a misconception for extended decks to use tithe in super gro, but the same doesn't apply to type 1 super gro. Matt d'avanzo introduced the idea and it has been working VERY well so far. It feeds dryad (unlike land grant) and it gets me 1 or 2 lands.

Serendib efreet gets around moat indeed, but do you know just how much play it sees? It rarely, very very rarely appears nowadays in control decks. If such it will appear once in a while in keeper and usually appears in parfait (although this deck is rather uncommon).

Timetwister is a must in any blue-based aggressive deck

Gro isn't just an agressive deck. It's aggro control. Besides, you have already got gush and several other good cantrips which will help you with your hand. If you were playing a faster deck or if the environment was filled with necro and suicide black I'd say go ahead, but as it is timetwister is nearly obsolete (in a similiar way to moat).

The library may get you an extra card a turn, but it's not worth to play it. Even though most of the time you have a full hand the library can be easily destroyed, and it doesn't give any kind of colored mana. And since you'll have to pack winter orbs library gets even worse.

This is an aggro-control deck and mystical tutor makes you lose tempo advantage, making you waste a card slot, and a draw to get a card. If the only cards worth tutoring on your deck with mystical tutor are only 3 (two if you take the twister out), then you can pass the tutor for something else.

If I play either daze or disrupt my opponent will surely have at least 1 extra mana to play. These two counters are good vs fast, agressive decks such as suicide black or sligh, but they're no good vs control. Daze/disrupt makes your opponent tap 1 extra land for one turn, rendering those counters obsolete.
Winter Orb makes your opponent lose several turns when he taps his lands for mana. He will have to waste one turn to untap one land. Winter orb is far more crippling vs control.

Super gro gives you meddling mage, which is VERY good vs control or combo. Mystic enforcer which can avoid abyss unlike none of the creatures on your deck can, and also makes for a good card vs aggressive decks. It can fly over Moat (if that's such a preocupation for you). You also gain seals of cleansing/disenchant which are more versatile than emerald charms and you gain swords to plowshares, which is the best creature removal white has to offer.

What cards do you have to use if your opponent suddenly drops something like... covetous dragon (funker), a su-chi or juggernaut (stacker 2), negator or nantuko shade (suicide black)? Then swords is the best answer.

As for tithe.. it wasn't used in extended super gro because it didn't need it. It works fine on type 1 super gro. If you have so many doubts about the performance of the deck why don't you try to play it?

[TheNuOne]

The problem is, you have several things to add, and much less to take out. Mystical Tutor really doesn't cause much of a tempo loss, and it is almost surely regained by the Twister/Ancestrall you'll get. I can see arguments for using Mongoose instead of Serendib, and using Tithe, but what would a Super-Gro decklist look like in T1?

[halo99]

here's my grow decklist, just for comparision:

// Creatures
        4 Quirion Dryad
        4 Blurred Mongoose
        4 Nimble Mongoose

// Cantrips and Such
        4 Gush
        4 Opt
        4 Brainstorm

// Counters
        4 Force of Will
        3 Misdirection
        1 Daze

// Mana Denial
        3 Winter Orb

// Extra
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
        1 Sylvan Library
        1 Regrowth

// Mana
        4 Land Grant
        4 Tropical Island
        5 Island
        1 Forest
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Emerald

and i have a deck list for super grow but it is not even close to being finished...

// Critters
        4 Quirion Dryad
        4 Nimble Mongoose
        4 Meddling Mage

// Cantrips and Such
        4 Gush
        4 Brainstorm
        3 Opt
        4 Tithe

// Counters
        4 Force of Will
        3 Misdirection

// Extras
        3 Winter Orb
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
        1 Sylvan Library

// Mana
        4 Tropical Island
        1 Savannah
        4 Tundra
        4 Island
        3 Land Grant
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Black Lotus

[Os-Vegeta]

Here's my version of Supergro

Mana (17)
4 Island
4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire

Creatures (12)
4 Quiron Dryad
3 Meddling Mage
3 Mystic Enforcer
2 Nimble Mongoose

Library Manipulation (10)
4 Gush
4 Sleight of Hand
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Sylvan Library

Counters (9)
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Misdirection

Land Search (6)
3 Land Grant
3 Tithe

Other Spells (4)
3 Winter Orb
2 Swords to Plowshares (Might want to run 4 of these in      
                                 an aggro-heavy environment)
1 Time Walk

Threshold has more power now with this version because of the Mystic Enforcers. This helps alot against Moat, not to mention a 6/6 with flying and protection from black for 4 mana gives you a big advantage.  Meddling Mages help protect you from removal, Moat, The Abyss, and whatever else might pop up.

[acoly]

First thing, library is absolutely broken in this deck.  Run it.  I would imagine that mystical would be good too, im gonna throw it in mine and test it.  This is a deck that makes library, ancestral, and walk absolutely amazing, fetching them faster cant be bad.  Still up in the air with twister, seems like it could be very good in the right deck.

Second, winter orb seems really bad to me for use in type one due to moxen.  It doesnt strike me as a good card against any deck out there.  Sure it will slow things a touch, but is that enough?  It hasn't worked for any other deck in years (I admit that gro introduces a lot of cards that were previously "bad" but im not sure if orb makes it).

I dont get adding tithe.  You basically screw up gro's primier advantage: low land counts compared to other control decks.  I certainly understand the usefulness of swords to plowshares, but you will be siding these no?  Its not like Ug gro doesnt have lots of sideboard options for anticritter.

What do you call with mages?  Either you call a 1x of, or you call a counterspell.  Either way doesnt sound terribly destructive to me.  The counterspells are helpful, but that is moreso because you only have 4x hard counters in the deck.

I agree that the higher critter count makes the deck much better against aggro first game, but you throw away the excelent countering power, low land counts, and consistancy of the Ug deck.  I like the 6/6 fatty, but you have to admit that she is a simple necessity to evade both moat and abyss because you really cant keep it from hitting unless you waste a mage on it only to be wiped out by balance.

Finally, daze is good at 2x because it makes the opponent change his play.  Needing to leave 1 more mana open to cast a spell is can be really annoying.

[Os-Vegeta]

I see, so scrap the Mage and Tithes, and you have more slots open.  I'm not so sure about Winter Orb though...  I added Mage because there were quite a few people from here who have already suggested running Mage.  He could be useful against control decks though.  Why not just name Balance?

[MarkPharaoh]

I think Daze and/or Disrupt is good in the deck because it makes your oppenent think if your actually holding one and is thinking whenever to tap out or not.  That can be annoying.  It is also a good pitch card to Misdirection and FoW.  

[Burntgerbil]

Why don't you just take it in your metagame and keep notes on what you use & don't use and then tweak your deck. All the advice in the world can't replace 1000 or even 100 matches of playtesting.

[Bastian]

Acolytec, you're giving advice based on YOUR gro deck which has nothing to do with gro at all. And which happens to be very similiar to this one as well.

Why are people giving their opinions based on their biased opinions rather on playtesting based ones? "I think that this card doesn't work" isn't enough, now is it?

First of all not all type 1 decks pack moxes. Second, those that do are not totally depending on them to be sucessuful. And playing a winter orb is far more crippling than LoA. LoA doesn't provide ANY colored mana which in a deck with so few lands can be a killer.

Besides, on gro LoA becomes a "I win more" card than it's useful, since most gro decks are already able to have lots of cards in hand. Wasting a card slot to play a land that gives no colored mana on a deck that has few lands and that doesn't add anything to the deck... well, it's obvious.

And if you're willing to play the deck so, then please, don't call it gro. Your decks resemble the Chapin "Gro" that make look type 1 like a nuisance. They may win something, they may be something, but they're definitly NOT gro decks.

"Finally, daze is good at 2x because it makes the opponent change his play.  Needing to leave 1 more mana open to cast a spell is can be really annoying." ohhh... look... he plays DAZE! I'm so scared that now I'll leave that mana open. Oh wait, this is type 1... control decks have access to fast mana, what was he thinking about?

[bebe]

Well, here is my version... A few quick notes...
No Twister or Library. Rods instead of Orbs main.
FLOOD PLAIN... works with Rods well and provides one more
thinner to the deck. I get my land and good topdecks.
I found Swords and Allures absolutely invaluable in 80% of the matchups in this area.



4 Land Grant
4 Flood Plain
4 Tundra
4 Tropical Island
Black Lotus
Mox Pearl
Mox Sapphire
Savannah

3 Null Rod
3 Legacy's Allure
3 Swords to Plowshares

4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Daze

4 Gush
4 Brainstorm
3 Sleight of Hand
Ancestral Recall


4 Werebear
4 Quirion Dryad
3 Mystic Enforcer

sb
4 Meddling Mage
4 Chill
3 Winter Orb
2 Seal of Cleansing
Island

[acoly]

Considering that he is working on Ug Dryad (Ill call it that, if that makes you happier), i think that my comments should be pretty viable...

I am not simply defending my choice in gro - the problem with Ug gro is simple- you don't have enough critters with only 8.  But what to put for the 3rd critter?  I cannot find a set of 3 critters that I am happy with.  I will say that I really want to put mystic enforcer into my gro deck, but tithes just mess the entire deck up.  I am thinking about just maindecking 3 critter kills/steals and playing the deck entirely as a faster blue.

I want to find a compromise between running enough critters and not sacrificing superior counterspell power to keeper.  Another problem with 3 color is that you die to nonbasic land kill.  Again, its not like you can counter it, whereas the Ug deck can actually sideboard back to basics (which is my winter orb, while oath is my STP).  Not as efficient in many ways but I am pretty good at making the clumsy oath lock work by now.

You could be correct on library, i will pay more attention whenever I get it in testing.  Mind you, the only deck that I have played in t1 that I ran library in was Saphire Oath, so I am hardly a fan of the card, but it seems to work here very well.

Maybe I am wrong, but I am constantly reminded of the Patriot every time I look at a tithe-gro deck.  It seems to have the same fundamental errors.

Allure is targeted (ie: morphling evadable) right?  I'm not very good at enchantment rules.

I find daze very annoying when I play against it, but maybe thats just me (And I always have acceleration of some form in my decks).

[Os-Vegeta]

Bebe:  I like your thinking.  Flood  Plain is much more versatile than Tithe, not to mention it's free cc.

[TheNuOne]

The 3 creatures I'm happy with, with 10 creatures overall, would be as followed:

U/G
4 Quirion Dryad
3 Nimble Mongoose
3 Serendib Efreet

U/G/w
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Mystic Enforcer

Just so you know, I'm open to either option, but I really haven't been able to find a Super-Gro decklist I like yet. However, I'll get to testing, and see if I like any of the decklists I see here (or change them to match my specs). However, I have liked Timetwister and Mystical Tutor alot in testing, so I think I'll keep them. Thanks.

[Bastian]

Acolytec, about saphire oath... DO NEVER PLAY THAT THING AGAIN:P

It was the most horrid, slow, boring game of magic ive ever played... remember?  

[acoly]

HAHAHAHA   I love that deck.  So much fun for me and none for the opponent.  All without the cheesyness of combo   At least I dont have to beg to get a match anymore on bdchat.

Just kidding.  I am testing a transformational oath board for dryad though.  It seems to be working so far.

[acoly]

Been working on the dryad deck the last few days.  Look for my deck and a few playtesting friend's when the TOC goes up.  Testing so far has found our build to be very strong and far better constructed than its roots in Chapman's silly 8 colored land gro.