Gay fish

[erik]

Having recently acquired some beta merfolks and lords that are begging to get used, I was wondering if anyone has a decklist for a competitive fish deck? I remember one being posted on BD just before it went down, but I forgot to save it :/

[bebe]

This is Curious Fish. It was later renamed Gay Fish.  I will play this at times
- 2 Disrupt
- Teferi's Response
- Mystical Tutor
+ 4 Standstill
My problem with Standstill is that a lot of people have 1 drops and man-lands around here so it can get hijacked. Feel free trying both builds.

The Original Curious Fish

creatures
        4 Rootwater Thief
        4 Manta Riders
        4 Lord of Atlantis
        4 Cloud of Faeries
spells
        4 Force of Will
        3 Misdirection
        2 Disrupt
        Teferi's Response

        4 Curiosity
        Mystical Tutor
        Time Walk
        Ancestral Recall
        
        3 Null Rod
mana
        LoA
        Mox Sapphire
        Strip Mine
        2 Waste land
        4 Faerie Conclave
        4 Mishra's Factory
        10 Island

Some of the choices:

Creatures:

The Merfolks - these are a good mix of speed and control.

Spells:
I have found that I need both Misdirecrtions and Disrupts to be competitive against a variety of decks.
Obviously I could have used Counterspells or Drains in these spots but I prefer the versatility of Misdirections and the cantrip value of a Disrupt. Memory Lapse was also a consideration with Standstills but I wanted the MisDs.

.

Land:

Of course more Wastes would be nice. I side them in against decks that use duals.

LoA is just palin brutal.


So now the sideboard. This was sent to me by Razor and actually has worked quite well on Apprentice:

4 hydroblast  (satisfies our needs vs sligh, funker, keeper/ose)
2 wasteland  (satisfies our needs vs funker, keeper/ose)  
2 washout  (satisfies our needs vs parfait, stompy, and sui)
3 powder keg  (satisfies our needs vs stompy, and sui)
3 psionic blast
capsize

vs.stompy -2 force of will, -1 misdirection, -3 null rods
vs parfait -3 misdirections
vs.funker -2 misdirections
vs sui-3 null rods
vs sligh -2 disrupt -1 rootwater

The original sideboard had Snaps in the Keg spot.

BTW, this is the best aggro deck out there IMHO.

[Phantom Tape Worm]

The most current decklist for Gay fish is as follows:

Creatures:
4 Rootwater Thief
4 Manta Riders
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Cloud of Faeries

Spells:
4 Force of Will
3 Misdirections
4 Standstill
4 Curiosity
2 Psionic Blast
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Null Rod

Mana Sources:
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory
9 Island

The sideboard I use changes wildly depending on what I expect the metagame to be.  Some of the cards I consider are:

Wasteland
Propaganda
Blue Elemental Blast
Extract
Psionic Blast
Tradewind Rider
Washout
Snap
Upheaval
Man o'war
Waterfront Bouncer


Bebe prefers kegs for removal, I prefer bounce, but I find it's really just a matter of taste (there's just something funny about beating the best decks in MTG with 1/1's and bounce).

Either way, this deck is quite good and has served me well in the trenches of Richmond comix where it has become one of the "decks to beat", locally anyways.



A word of caution however: beware tsabo's web.  I was recently traumatized after loosing to keeper (a match that is usually very favorable), both games the keeper player got out the web on me and I was simply unable to recover.  This was so distressing because this deck is aggro control, it's supposed to beat control decks like keeper.  If it can't do that because of an artifact cantrip that keeper can easily sideboard (or even main deck), this is a huge problem.  

Unfortunately i know of only a few ways to combat this, and someone please correct me if i'm wrong cause i'm not sure if this is an answer, but will tidal warrior's ability:
"T: Target land becomes an island until end of turn."
if done during the clean up step of an opponents turn allow your man land to untap?

*sigh*

you know, even if that does work, it's really a very poor solution to the web since it requires the addition of tidal warrior to the sideboard (seem weak to anyone else?) in place of other more valuable cards.  


Bounce is another option, but since tsabo's web reads:
"When Tsabo's Web comes into play, draw a card."
allowing him to play it multiple times would be free draws for him.


Powder Keg is another option, but if you're packing null rods (my other reason behind not packing them in the sideboard) there is a gross lack of synergy there.  Even if you side out the nulls for kegs, vs a fully powered keeper nulls are invaluable....it's a tough call which to use, and i would not advise trying to run both.  But maybe that IS the solution since it can also kill morphling...hmmm.


My true hope however, is in extract:
U - Sorcery
"Search target player's library for a card, and remove that card from the game. Then that player suffles his or her library."
I have no idea how it will do since i've not tested extract yet, but keeper hates rootwater thieves and there are 4 of those already maindecked.  And while it pains me to have to add keeper hate to my sideboard (the deck's build is supposed to beat keeper inherantly, without having to resort to heavy sideboarding) at least extract will also be useful vs the new dragon decks i expect to see.  And previously combo was not addressed on the sideboard anyway.


All comments welcome

[pernicious dude]

If you Tidal Warrior your manland during his clean-up,
it'll go back to Web-food at the end of his turn,
before it untaps.

Thief's too slow to dig for a cheap one like the Web.
Extract is bad, though, and useless if they've got it in hand.

This is one spot where Bebe's liking for Kegs pans out.
I don't like Kegs in this deck, myself,
since it has stuff at every low mana point,
but the Web is a real problem.
OTOH, it shuts down their own Library and Wastes...
I wonder if anyone's using it anywhere else?
I maindeck a Web in my Goblin Welder Deck as card draw.

Which bounce would you use?
The only things you list that'll hit an artifact
are Tradewind and Upheaval.
I remember back when you were saying you were going to try Tradewind.
Has it been working for you?

[Phantom Tape Worm]

It's too bad that tidal warrior doesn't work, I was under the impression that it might but I wasn't sure.  I thought it could work something similar to the Waylay (white lightning) trick white weenie got for a little while.  Ah well, tidal warrior didn't seem like the right answer anyway.


Extract is bad huh?  hmmm.  I still have yet to test it, but i'm hoping you're wrong on that count.  It would seem to me that a turn 1 extract backed up with a turn 2 rootwater thief is bad news for keeper.  Hell, two consecutive extracts could give you the game if you manage to take both morphs.  Yeah, i know, it seems like removing one card that they don't even have in their hand would have little effect on the game, especially at the cost of a card.  But the plan is to use it vs keeper and combo exclusively.  These decks typically rely on certain key one of's in their deck to win.  Perhaps this is more obvious in combo decks like academy, dragon, or reaplace, but keeper does rely heavily on certain one of's as well.  Abyss comes to mind.  So does yawgwill, or any of the other restricted nonsense bombs they play.  My thinking is that early game vs keeper (like first turn) you can look through their deck, and deduce what they have in their hand. Then try to pick apart their best strategy by removing a bomb.  Cripple a strategy: hit abyss, hit a morph, hit yawgwill, or hit tsabo's web, whatever you anticipate causing you the most trouble (morphling is without a doubt the most dangerous thing they have against the fishes, but they usually come in 2's in keeper so taking one is risky without another extract or rootwater thief nearby).

I would agree that extract is a bad card to run for most decks and that it's utter trash vs most decks.  Vs redundant aggro decks like sligh or stompy it's a total "do nothing" waste of a card.  But right now we're looking for a solution to combo and keeper here.  And since gay fish is packing 4 thieves to assist in the extracting process, AND has tons of card drawing to make up for the loss of a "do nothing card", i think it may have a place in the sideboard.

But like i said, i haven't tested it yet, so right now i'm actually talking out my rectal, but it should work......right?



Oh yeah, as far as tradewinds go, i wish i could tell you more about my experience with them.  I've been running two on my side board as of late but i rarely get the chance to use them, and the few times i do, they are immediately Red elemental blasted.  Dead on arrival.....actually that's not entirely true, last tourny I played at, I faced off against a stacker deck.  Tradewind came out at the very end of the game (my opponent was already down to 3 life with me firmly in control of the board) I swung with him and a man land for the win.  I have yet to bounce anything with him in a tourny, and i'm starting to think that he's not really worth the 4cc. He's got a big red target painted on his chest, and i think he actually whispers "kill me" to my opponent as i cast him.  One of the things i like about this deck is that it seems so innocuous.  No one bothers to worry about a 1/1 faerie, so when you're beating them down and taking control they don't realize that it's happening, and this confusion can sometimes help to win games.  But everyone knows to get rid of a tradwind on sight, the play is obvious, it's just what's done when you see one.  So, I'm thinking about loosing him....but we'll see.


Oh, and one more thing, I was considering black vise as one more anti control measure.  Great synergy with standstill!!!  It allows you to style kill during his upkeep by breaking your own standstill with a standstill, and then breaking that. Seemed like it might have some promise.  Any thoughts?

All comments welcome.

[pernicious dude]

Yesterday I was sitting next to a Fish Opposition
who turn 1 Extracted the Oath player's lone Morphling.
I'll admit that was pretty nice.
Try it out and let us know.

[bebe]

well, I played my version (with Standstill) of Curious Fish today and went 3 -1 losing only to blue splash red control deck. I made the final four but dropped out to allow another player a shot at the prize.

mycurent sideboard:

4 hydroblast  
wasteland  
capsize
2 snap
3 powder keg  
4 psionic blast

When I played this deck again I will make a few changes:
- 3 Null rods + 3 Ophidian
- 4 Standstill  + 3 Mana Leak + Teferi's Response

I will repeat this. Standstill just does not make the cut. I keep trying it out and keep getting disappointed with the results. Way too often it works against you. 'Phids are just better more often than not. The Rods just do not do enough to be the best solution to anything.

To beat Sui you definately the blasts, btw.

Our metagame is control blue with splashes, sui, and random ugliness primarily.

[Phantom Tape Worm]

Bebe, it is clear that you and i have vastly different metagames.  I typically play against lots of artifact heavy decks (stacker, funker, keeper, OSE, occassionally parfait, and mask).  Against these decks null rod is amazing, however, since your environment consists of random scrubbiness, maybe you should consider maindecking the kegs instead and just leave nulls out all together.


As far as taking out standstills....I would caution against this.  Regardless of the occasional hijack, the deck is designed to use and run more efficiently under a standstill than any other (hence the 8 man lands 3 strips and cycling/untappy faeries).  If you take out standstill I would argue that you loose much of the synergy that you previously had.  I understand that getting it hijacked is an issue in your man land heavy environment, but I remember playing the deck before standstill, and at least in my testing it just didn't have the kind of draw power it needed to be a force to be reckoned with.  Of course perhaps that is because I had tidal warriors and other junky stuff in there before....

Which brings me to my next point.  Is ophidian a suitable replacement for standstill??  I would say no.  There are several reasons for this, reasons 4 and 5 being the most important:
  1) ophi does not have synergy with curiosity (granted he is already curious inherently).
  2) ophi has a higher casting cost (really not that big a deal since your version runs slightly more lands than mine anyway, but still worth consideration).
  3) ophi is not innocuous (people know about the dangers of a rampaging ophidian and know to get rid of him ASAP, but people often have problems trying to decide when/if to break a standstill)
  4) ophi has no evasion, and you have little removal.
  5) if your metagame is man land heavy enough to warrant not playing standstills, why switch to a card drawing engine like ophidian which is stopped dead by man lands?

I think if you are looking for a non-standstill drawing engine, that comes as a creature, theiving magpie is the better choice.  Even at the higher cc it's got lots more synergy....but, then you have to face the reality that you'd be playing thieving magpie in type 1....why does that seem wrong to me?  


The thing is the increased need for lands changes the way the deck plays.  It seems to me bebe, that you prefer to play a more control oriented version, as indicated by your decision to include mana leaks.  This isn't bad though.  I recently did some test playing against a buddy's wordgorger dragon deck.  The fishes got owned.  We played six games of which the fish won one.  This was ofcourse pre-sideboarding but i can definately see why you are interested in adding more counters.  If you're going to exclude standstill, let me know how the extra counters do in its place.

*side note, dragon is obscene.  I haven't seen a deck like this since combo winter.  It consistantly wins by turn 3 or earlier vs aggro decks, even aggro control has a hard time with this thing.  Only vs a dedicated control deck did dragon begin to loose.  It's cheap, easy to build, this deck is going to see lots of play in type 1.

Also, i tried teferi's response and never got it to work well enough to include it because i tap out all the time.  However, if you are including mana leaks, maybe you will find yourself in a position to better utilize teferi's.

Anyway, bebe, tell me how the testing goes for the new version.


As usual, all comments welcome

[bebe]

My metagame is not random scrubbiness. On Sunday I faced OSE, Sui, Enforcer and Lam's blue control deck. I lost only one match. Against Stacker my deck will fail but no one plays Stacker here and I would add Rods if that were the case.

I actually tested today with the 'Phids and was not happy as you surmised but Standstill is worse. I can't believe you don't get hijacked by fast aggro and U/r. I caution against including Standstills. what do you do against first turn Shades, Hyppies etc. If you are not holding a FoW you have wasted cards. The answer is not Magpies either. Scrying Glass solved my problem in matches against control I've actually reconstructed the deck a bit but until I stop winning I am reluctant to make too many changes.

Yes, metagames will vary. Toronto has a sophisticated Type 1 core, however, so you do not get free passes against scrubs very often (unless Razor or myself are playing one of our very rogue designs).

[Razor]

Good report BeBe.

BeBe is right.  Every one of the the top 5 decks on Sunday (of the 15 that entered) had 4 Mishra's Factories.  Mine had 2 Nantuko Monasteries, too.

I liked watching Curious Fish smash me in the face 2-0.  The only damage I "dealt" it was Force of Will damage.

I tend to agree that Standstill is a "win-more" card since you need to have board control before you play it.

BeBe: Giving me your seed in the top 4 was a truly astonishing move.  Fire/Ice gave U/r too much card advantage for you to recover from.  Misdirections couldn't save you from it, either.  BTW, lunch is on me next time.  Did you see me destroy Arand's Mono-U deck with my janky no P-9 deck?

[kirdape3]

What are the results versus Suicide, especially a version running Nantuko Shades?  With only the four Forces and Psionic Blasts to combat a rather nasty and angry army of swinging men, I'd assume that it would be difficult to combat.

[Adeptstremere]

Do you think Saprazzan Heir is worth a slot in this deck?

Saprazzan Heir
1U
Creature - Merfolk
1/1
Whenever Saprazzan Heir becomes blocked you may draw three cards.

I've always used this in my fish decks with great effect. Just for the mere fact of not giving you the three cards, your opponent will refuse to block it, which is good for you especially once you have a lord or two. When he's low on life he WILL block it which means huge card advantage=u win  

Suprisingly I've never seen anyone using this card before in any lists here or on BDominia.

[bebe]

I went 2-1 vs. Sui. Four Psi Blasts were monstrous in the match up. Sui here is really Legend Black. They have 3 main deck Rods. So i side in Kegs when they remove them. Masticore is hell. If you counter it they lose otherwise you do. Therefore Snaps and Kegs and Blasts all go in.  
Saprazzan Heir... hmm. It's an idea in this metagame although he is very vulnerable to Fire/Ice and Cores. Might test that out.

[specialk]

Me being mana screwed kinda helped you out razor but i can't stop everything you throw at me with such an anti-U sideboard. It is spelt Arend

[herby]

anyone tried unstable mutation?  it adds a lot of speed to the deck.