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Author Topic: Presenting: A Beautiful Mind  (Read 9247 times)
NaClhv
Guest
« on: July 08, 2002, 11:35:05 pm »

Ever since tempest, people have known that land tax + scroll rack is a strong combo.  Often characterized as an "ancestral every turn", tax-rack is actually far more powerful than that.  It allows you to see up to 11 new cards every turn (7 + 3 from tax + your draw), and it only gets better with multiple land taxes.  In fact, this is probably the single most powerful card drawing engine in the game, surpassing other notables such as necro+ivory tower, ancestral+holistic wisdom, squee+bazaar, sylvan+abundance, and welder+jar.  

However, despite the fact that its raw drawing power is unparalleled, tax+rack engines have seen little play in type 1.  This is because of the other aspects of the engine present some very thorny problems:  It requires you to be at a mana disadvantage compared to your opponent.  It requires you to play mostly basic lands.  It requires you to play white as a major color.  It's a two-card combo that takes up valuable one-drop and two-drop slots.  Each of these problems place severe restrictions on the viable deck concepts and their construction, which makes the tax+rack engine a difficult one to implement.

To date, the tax+rack engine has only been seen in two major archtypes, and both of them are inflicted with one or more of the maladies mentioned above.  In the aggro end, white weenie decks have tried to incorporate tax+rack into their strategy, but they often find that the tax+rack engine competes with other first and second turn drops, such as savannah lions and white knight.  And the loss of 4 points of damage on the table, in exchange for a card-drawing engine in an aggressive deck, is often not an appealing bargain.  The use of the engine is further hampered by the fact that white is not the best color for an aggressive deck to begin with.

In the control end, parfait immediately comes to mind as the primary candidate for a tax+rack deck.  However, being restricted to white and mostly basic lands makes parfait a mono-colored deck, and thus it renounces the awesome toys of blue and black that other control decks play with.  The fact that parfait has to be at a mana disadvantage is also detrimental to the deck, especially as a control deck which runs the mana-hungry sacred mesa.  For these reasons, parfait has never made it into tier 1 status in type 1.

So we see that the tax+rack engine, despite being powerful, has inherent characteristics which make it difficult to incorporate into either an aggro deck or a control deck.  That leaves two other possibilities:  aggro-control and combo.  While tax+rack as a combo engine is an interesting idea, I chose to explore the aggro-control side of the engine, and came to the deck that I present to you today.

NaClhv  
In association with
The Games of Berkeley Type 1 Crew

Presents

A BEAUTIFUL MIND

Starring:

5 plains
5 islands
2 undiscovered paradise
2 city of brass
2 gemstone mine
1 library of alexandria
1 mox pearl
1 mox sapphire
1 mox diamond
1 black lotus
1 sol ring
-22 mana sources

4 land tax
3 scroll rack
1 trade routes
1 zuran orb
-9 engine pieces

1 ancestral recall
1 fact or fiction
1 time walk
1 balance
1 demonic tutor
1 mystical tutor
1 yawgmoth's will
1 regrowth
1 mind twist
-9 restricted goodness

2 meddling mage
2 devout witness
2 whirlpool warrior
2 werebear
2 mystic enforcer
-10 creatures

2 force of will
2 misdirection
2 back to basics
2 powder keg
1 fire/ice
1 swords to plowshares
-10 control elements

60 cards total

Sideboard: (very tenative)
2 force of will
2 back to basics
1 fire/ice
1 seal of cleansing
2 meddling mage
1 ivory tower
1 aura fracture
2 blood moon
3 swords to plowshares

The idea behind the deck is to have as few lands in play as possible, while playing cheap threats that double as control elements.  This allows you to tax even against many aggro decks that only play 2 lands.  You'll notice that most of the creatures in the deck have dual functions of being a beatdown creature and a control creature that requires little mana to operate.  Keeping with the idea of having few lands in play, all of the counterspells are pitch counters, fueled by the deck's drawing power.  None of the control elements are mana hungry.  They do their thing, mostly by just sitting there.  Almost nothing in the deck requires keeping large amounts of mana open, or having a lot of lands in play.

There are a few cards that are an exception to the above rule:  Mystic enforcer is a pure beatdown creature, and it's a whopping 4 mana to cast.  However, its threshold ability makes it an excellent deal, essentially shaving off 2 mana from its casting cost, and it is one of the few things that can stop morphling.  (werebears follow the same idea:  I can't play normal large creatures with high casting cost, so I play cheap creatures that get large with threshold.  Werebears are also a source of non-land mana in the deck)

Mind twist and yawgmoth's will are also mana intensive, but these cards fall into the "synergy be damned, this card is broken" category.  Fact or fiction is iffy for the deck, but it is included in it for now under the same idea as yawgwill and twist.  Besides, fof and yawgwill each have a different kind of synergy with this deck:  Fof works well with scroll rack and whirlpool warrior, and yawgwill is good in a deck with a lot of low-casting cost permanents.

Overall, the deck plays like a cross between parfait and miracle grow:  Play threats and the tax-rack engine, and win by attacking with large creatures.  Against aggro, use the card drawing and manipulation (tutors, scroll rack, whirlpool warrior) to find answers to whatever threat you're dealing with, and just draw a ton of cards when the tax-rack engine is established.  Against control, the build of the deck insures that you can overwhelm a counter wall, and that you can pretty much always tax.  Use the scroll rack and whirlpool warrior to switch between aggro and control as the situation demands.

The following are matchup analysis against some of the standard archtypes in type 1.

Vs. Keeper: 70% win ratio (49-21 win record)
This deck smashes Keeper.  The matchup proceeds with Keeper trying to counter or d-blow all of Mind's threats, and then either eventually failing or losing to the creature that Keeper couldn't spare a counter on.  I have tested this matchup extensively, with a total of 70 games recorded on my win-loss notepad, and many more played besides.  The 70 games were played mostly pre-sideboard, against a variety of different kinds of Keeper builds, against a variety of Keeper players (all of who were experienced as Keeper players).  The 70% win ratio stayed more or less constant across all of the variables mentioned above.  Even when I played some games after switching decks with my opponent, or when some other people tried variations of A Beautiful Mind that's more geared towards aggro, Mind continued to smash Keeper, with roughly the same consistancy.  This continued to be true even after the Keeper players in my area made changes to their deck to deal with A Beautiful Mnd (e.g. maindeck aura fracture).  The post-sideboard matchups would obviously depend on how much hate each deck packs in the sideboard, with both sides having pretty good cards to bring in.  But I do not foresee Keeper winning more than 60%, even after sideboarding.  All in all, Mind easily crushes Keeper.

Vs. OSE: 70% projected win ratio (4-0 win record)
While those that devoutly play Keeper or OSE might actually debate whether they are the same deck or not, from the standpoint of a deckbuilder outside of the standard blue-based control mindset, they are the same deck.  If you can build a deck that beats one of them, it will most likely beat the other as well.  This rational, combined with the fact that the only playtesting I've done against OSE resulted in a 4-0 annihilation of OSE, leads me to conclude, with a fair degree of confidence, that Mind will win against OSE with the same ease that it does against Keeper.

Vs. Oath: 70% projected win ratio (6-1 win record)
The same argument as in OSE applies here.  All of the blue-based control decks fall to Mind, presumably because of their common weaknesses.  Of course, more playtesting would be nice, but again the combination of the similarity argument and the 6-1 win record against Oath leads me to believe that 70% is the correct number.

Vs. Suicide black: 55% projected win ratio (3-2 win record)
Although testing is lacking here, I believe that the 5 games played are representative of the overall trend of the matchup.  Suicide black has a problem with land tax:  It makes sinkholes pretty much worthless, and greatly diminishes the power of hymn to tourach, and Suicide has a hard time playing around it.  Furthermore, mystic enforcer is a huge problem for suicide.  After sideboard, the matchup doens't get any better, with Mind having a far more versatile sideboard that includes going up to 4 swords to plowshares.  Of course, a slower black deck (Butterknives, Nether Void) has even a tougher time, as they absolutely have to let Mind tax, and cannot threaten with a 4th-turn win.

Vs. Sligh: 55% projected win ratio (4-1 game record)
Mox monkey gives Mind headaches, but other than that, there isn't much to be afraid of.  Sligh is fairly slow for an aggro deck, and once Mind gets tax-rack going, there is virtually no hope for Sligh.  Given the win record that I have against sligh, I might quote a more optimistic figure than 55%, but for now I will err on the side of caution.

Vs. Stompy: 45-50% projected win ratio
There isn't an outstanding Stompy in my metagame, and it's probably the aggro deck that I'm most afraid of.  Its creatures can win in combat with a 2/2 (which comprises most of Mind's creatures), and Stompy is probably the only deck with a mana curve low enough to play around land tax.  It is also the fastest of the aggro decks.  Fortuantely, it is probably also the aggro deck that is hurt the most in post-sideboard games.

Vs. Sligh/Stompy hybrid: 45-50% win ratio (28-30 game record)
This is essentially a Sligh deck that splashes green for some of green's better creatures, kird apes, and rancor.  Again, gorilla shaman is troublesome for Mind, and hull breach is a beating.  But this is not enough to change the fact that this is an aggro deck, which has to deal with all the brokenness that type 1 control has to access to.

Vs. Stacker/Funker: 60% projected win ratio (4-2 game record)
In addition to all the normal anti-aggro measures of Mind, Stacker/Funker has to deal with back to basics and devout witness.  Goblin welder is as dangerous as ever, but they get named with meddling mage, keged, fire/iced, or simply ignored if I have tax/rack operational.  Most of my feeling for the 60% win ratio comes from the results of playtesting an earlier, inferior incarnation of A Beautiful Mind against Stacker/Funker, which won about 55% of its games.

Notice that in all of the aggro matchups mentioned above, the post-sideboard games become more favorable for Mind, which has a more flexible inherent deck strategy, and a wider range of sideboard options.

Vs. Parfait: 65% projected win ratio
The 65% figure comes from the fact that an earlier, inferior version of Mind was able to beat Parfait 65% of the time, and I don't see much changing with the new version.

Vs. Miracle Grow: 35% projected win ratio (4-7 game record)
I'm not quite sure why Grow does so well against Mind, but it does.  I'll need to look into this more if Grow becomes more popular in my area.  For me, the matchup feels like the Keeper vs. Mind matchup, except that Grow is analogous to Mind and Mind is analogous to Keeper.  Post-sideboard prospects are better, with the swords coming in, and again the overall deck flexibility becoming a factor.

Vs. Dragon: 20% win ratio (4-20-1 game record)
Dragon ape-smashs A Beautiful Mind.  It has a lower mana curve than my deck does, and it's too fast anyway, making land tax irrelavant.  A lone force of will or swords is easily duressed or unmasked.  Meddling mages are only a partial solution, as Dragon has two types of cards to perform every useful function (entomb or buried alive?  Animate dead or dance of the dead?), and devout witness is often too slow and requires keeping mana open, a huge problem for Mind.  Granted, the match will get better post sideboard, but there's no getting around the fact that this is a losing battle for Mind.

Vs. other combo:  I haven't done much testing, but I expect that the matchup against Academy will be bad.  Besides that, other combo such as pandeburst or underworld dreams can be beaten about 55-60% of the times, judging from about 15 games played.

As you can see, A Beautiful Mind is an excellent deck, beating many of the top decks of type 1.  If your metagame is filled with keeper and other blue-based control, play it and win.  The deck can be made to excel against aggro also, if that's necessary (although with Dragon running around, any notion of a viable aggro deck goes out the window, so that's kinda pointless).  As it stands, I designed the deck to win against control and split 50-50 with various aggro decks, so that's why the win percentages look as they do, but the deck itself is quite flexible in how it can be built, with the idea of tax+rack combined with cheap aggro-control elements being the winning formula.

Obviously, Dragon is the big problem.  Mind was designed before the advent of the Dragon, and I have not yet adapted to this change in the metagame.  Given that I pretty much don't need to worry about aggro (thanks to Dragon, and the fact that my metagame is aggro-light to begin with) and win against control anyway, I could afford to devote huge amounts of resources to fighting Dragon, but I still don't see it going better than 50-50.  (In fact, I'm almost wondering if it would be better for me to spend my time improving Dragon, so that it would reach the point of total dominace, thereby forcing DCI to do something about it)  Interestingly enough, the very fact that Dragon beats Mind is what puts Dragon on the map in my metagame.  Without my deck, Dragon would simply be anotherpilethatlosestokeeper. dec.

But all in all, A Beautiful Mind is a new decktype that should be played in type 1.  Type 1 really needs a deck that beats keeper; two of the negative stereotypes of type 1 - that it is a format requiring all the power cards, and that it is a stagnant format - is continually perpetuated by the fact that keeper is a deck that does not lose more than 50% against anything.  (Incidentally, another negative stereotype, that type 1 is all about fast combo kills, is now much more true thanks to Dragon)  Mind is the kind of deck that will be good for type 1 in general:  It de-thrones keeper and othe blue-based control.  It doesn't cost much to build (no duals, and all the power cards just improve the deck.  They're not essential, like ancestral is essential to keeper).  It's highly flexible and customizable (remember, tax-rack engine plus low mana aggro-control is the formula, and within that limit there is a wealth of possibilities).  And most importantly, it's fun to play (who doesn't like drawing tons of cards?  Who doesn't like swinging with fat 6/6 flyers?  Who doesn't like the fact that the deck can be personalized?).

I'm looking forward to your feedback.  But remember, any posts saying "That just ain't so", especially regarding the win percentages, should be backed up with about the same amount of testing as I have done.  In other words, if you tell me that the win percentages against Stompy are actually 30-35% based on 20 games of testing, I'd be willing to accept that figure, since I haven't done much testing against Stompy.  But if you tell me that I'll lose to Keeper 75% of the time, just because you can just tell that from looking at the decklist, I'll probably tell you to go do more testing, on par with the 70+ games that I have done.  

Other than that, please respond with questions, comments, and suggestions.  I appreciate your feedback.
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Legend
Guest
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2002, 12:23:35 am »

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS
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Nova
Guest
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2002, 12:27:09 am »

[EDIT]: Me and the much maligned Legend agree on something, I never thought I'd see the day

You had better be joking about the 70% win ratio against keeper.  I think you may have the percentages the other way around.  I say the matchup is closer to 70-30 in favor of the keeper player.  This actually reminds me of back on BD when CooberP wrote in the enchantress primer about HIS win ratio against keeper... needless to say he ended up eating crow over it.  In fact, I'd say if you cut all your win ratios about in half, they'd be much closer (I don't think your deck has a good matchup against any of the tier one and most of the tier 2 decks).  Why run a bunch of 2 ofs?  That screws up your focus so much it's unbelievable....

Maybe I should just calm down...count to 10...and hope you're just mocking RandomMiser with this....

Sorry for what amounts to a flame, but really if you wish to duel me with a "standard" keeper 10 games or so and I don't win at least half I'll renounce my statement publicly.  I'm rusty with keeper, you might have a chance!

In case you didn't get that:

This is a public challenge to you.  I will use Matt D's Keeper, which is held as the standard and you can use that pile of horse poo you call a deck.  10 games, if you can win 7, hell 5 games against it I will, as I said above, publicly renounce my criticism.  Otherwise don't waste our time by posting decks that don't belong in T1.

-Nova
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Legend
Guest
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2002, 12:35:06 am »

Seriously, this pile of crap reminds me a lot of Coober P's continuing delusional support of the atrocious Enchantress deck.

This BETTER be a joke. "A Beautiful Mind" just stinks. It stinks. I can't say it any other way. What are you doing? What did your testing consist of?

You playing "A Beautiful Mind" and a lobotomized baby seal playing the Keeper deck?
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Vegeta2711
Guest
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2002, 12:53:54 am »

I remember a similar deck that you posted on bd. It got shot down horribly. Now... there was a reason it got shot down. Seriously I cannot see how the hell this thing could win against Keeper or anything considered Tier 1 as such.

Also as far as I can tell all Keeper has to do is counter Scroll Rack and that's game. Oh and B2B if you try to drop that first. The Abyss eats 8 of your creatures... I could go on about other weaknesses, but I think I'll stop there.

I think this quote sums it all up.

"Overall, the deck plays like a cross between parfait and miracle grow"

Now when was it good to have a hyrbid between two sub par decks?

Also as another joke, I think WW would own this simply 'cause it can disenchant the rack and kegs.  
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TracerBullet
Guest
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2002, 01:13:06 am »

Yeah, well, if he wants to back those numbers, i'm almost always ready for a game on AIM TracerBullet1000

I think we may end up with slightly different results.
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psyduck
Guest
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2002, 01:17:28 am »

Ah, you guys are idiots who dont see why this deck is so amazing. I believe the victims of the deck online have been CF's mask, whove i smashed about 3-1 (i would have gone 4-0 had i not been stupid and added a counter to the keg), and various other BD people including Rakso's keeper. This deck has smashed in real life many people whom I hope will follow up on this post to attest to the power of the deck,

I believe CF had very bad memories of the deck, as well as other #bd'ers online, as I proceeded to bash their heads in with this deck.

The number of keeper decks this deck has played is close to the hundreds (me and nachiv combined), and you can say whatever you want about the deck, but either put up or shut up.


This deck smashes keeper and monoblack like nobody's business.  However, Legend, if you aren't impressed, that's fine. Show up on #bdchat and we'll play a few.
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prodomoi
Guest
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2002, 01:18:48 am »

NaClhv: I believe your win percentages are pre-sideboard, correct? I would be interested to see how your numbers stack up after sideboarding (I played OSE vs your deck). OSE may even have a better chance than Keeper after sideboarding (Disks).

Guys, believe me, when I first saw the deck, I thought it was a steaming pile. It still looks like a steaming pile. After going 0-4 with OSE, I was scratching my head, "How the heck am I losing to that piece of poop?"   Of course, none of the games I played with OSE or any other deck were sideboarded; that remains my only, albeit serious, complaint. It's entirely possible that the deck may go 30-40% vs Keeper after sideboarding.

Of course, there's the distinct possibility that I have no idea how to play Magic. However, I have discussed the deck with three other BD guys (I guess I should say MD guys now); one posts often and has played Keeper for years. They were getting the same results with Keeper.

Before the name-calling and disparagement begins (oh well, too late), try the deck out. If your testing proves NaClhv dead wrong, then so be it, but at least you can back it up with actual playtesting.

Note that I'm not just trying to "stick up" for a buddy of mine. I've seen the designer a grand total of three times. My sincere objective is simply to promote impartial discussion.
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Vegeta2711
Guest
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2002, 01:21:56 am »

Fine. I'll add myself to the list of challengers to play against this deck.

Feel free to IM me at Silky172
In BDchat I'm Artowis.
I'm almost always up for a game.

I'll play just about anything against this thing.
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TracerBullet
Guest
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2002, 01:52:16 am »

***cough***hack***Doomsday***cough***cough***
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Legend
Guest
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2002, 01:55:18 am »

Yep.
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Magimaster
Guest
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2002, 02:00:16 am »

I swear, that's the lamest name ever.


god, reminds me of this time, my old highschool teacher was trying to talk about the movie "A Beautiful Mind" but instead kept saying "A Beautiful Man" without realising by accident and we all thought he was talking about a gay porn and thought he was gay...

and thus our hatred for him grew deeper.....
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dandan
Guest
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2002, 02:03:57 am »

I can't see this deck getting those kind of %s but it is interesting. I think if you are playing janky cheap utility creatures then you've missed a very important one:

Mothes of Runes
Protection from Abyss, weenies, Dragon, Swords

It also gives you another one drop if you don't have a Tax or if you want to stick on 1 land.

I assume I'm right in saying that you can give Dragon Prot Black in response to its CIP ability and remove the Animate Dead before it leaves play.

Of course this will make your deck look like a really bad WW  
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timw
Guest
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2002, 02:41:51 am »

Legend : I would like to be the first to say that in one month, after this deck gets played in your local metagame, people should lose respect for your T1 magic advice, if only because you couldn't keep an open mind for five minutes and give constructive criticism rather than reject an innovative and excellenty built deck. I will rub it in when you have to acknowledge that this deck beats keeper.

I've played quite a few keeper games against Mind. Mind usually has the upper hand. Try the deck in your local metagame if you don't believe me. This deck beats keeper fairly soundly game one, and after sideboarding it's not likely to get better. Frankly, this deck out draws keeper and out controls it.

Try the deck. This is not doomsday. NaChlv is a local berkeley player who's been refining this deck for over a year, not posting it because he wanted to be certain of his results. I'll put any shred of reputation I ever had online on this deck - It's good. Besides for Dragon, it's the best and most interesting deck that has shown up in T1 in a long time.

If any players are in the bay area, and you'd like to take your BD/TheManaDrain posted Keeper/5-color control deck up against this one, I'll ante a Mox Pearl, Mint UL, against any UL mox, best of five games, no sideboard. Anytime. I'm at Games of Berkeley most Friday nights. NaChlv I'm sure would take the same bet.
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mindtwister
Guest
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2002, 02:42:21 am »

Mother of Runes
{W}
Creature -- Cleric
1/1
{T}: Target creature you control gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn.

Notice the words *you control*.
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Legend
Guest
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2002, 02:57:52 am »

um...whatever you say.....
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Fishhead
Guest
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2002, 03:12:11 am »

Ah yes, it begins again.  Wink  

I'll admit that my first reaction when I saw this deck was that it was a janky pile of crap.  How can it win, especially against the almighty Keeper?  I can pick and poke at the decklist (how can you counter anything with such a strange counterbase!  how many colors?  how many basic lands?) all day.  

But the strange fact is that it wins.  It doesnt win against everything - Combo decks generally are a bad matchup.  But it has a good matchup against Control or Aggro and an especially good matchup where BtB comes into play.  

So playtest it and report your results back.  Whichever way your results go, doesnt matter to me.   But, dont just snipe at it without playing.  Everyone agrees (except maybe the creator of the deck Wink that it looks like a pile of random cards.  So does the original Sligh.  Looks are deceiving.  And you dont want to have to eat your hat if this turns out to be something.  Wink
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dandan
Guest
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2002, 03:37:42 am »

Oops, daft scrub mistake about Mother of Runes. It's been a long time since I had a WW (and she wasn't that good in WW)
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NaClhv
Guest
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2002, 05:36:30 am »

I see that I have received the expected responses.  I will now reply to the comments so far.

First, the deck is not a joke, like doomsday was.  I am entirely serious about everything that I've posted above.  I am furthermore not at all pleased by being taken for someone who would start something like the whole doomsday joke.

Secondly, to those of you that say "That just ain't so!", I notify you that I'm not fond of having to repeat myself.  Those of you who followed the deck back in Bdominia are aware of this.  However, due to your irritating persistence in hearing what I have already told you, I am now forced to quote myself:

Quote
Quote
But remember, any posts saying "That just ain't so", especially regarding the win percentages, should be backed up with about the same amount of testing as I have done.  In other words, if you tell me that the win percentages against Stompy are actually 30-35% based on 20 games of testing, I'd be willing to accept that figure, since I haven't done much testing against Stompy.  But if you tell me that I'll lose to Keeper 75% of the time, just because you can just tell that from looking at the decklist, I'll probably tell you to go do more testing, on par with the 70+ games that I have done.  

Thirdly, note the people who are saying that the deck is good, and compare them to people who say that the deck sucks.  EVERY SINGLE PERSON who's actually seen the deck work (Psyduck, Prodomoi, Timw, Fishhead) agrees that this deck is everything that I have claimed it to be.  On the other hand, EVERY SINGLE PERSON who says that the deck sucks (Legend, Nova, Vegeta2711, et al) are people who HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE WITH THE DECK.  Therefore it is not too difficult to discern the experts from the newbies in this debate.  Who are you going to listen to, the people who have actually played with and against the deck, or the others who are speaking out of orifices that were never intended for that purpose?

Fourthly, I welcome all challenges, but unfortunately I do not play on apprentice.  However, a couple of people in my playgroup do, and I'm sure that they'll be glad to play against you.  Although the deck will not be in the hands of its creator, I'm sure that the power intrinsic to the deck itself will be sufficient to quell any doubts you had about my deck, even if it might be played suboptimally.  Perhaps this will be an occasion for me to pick up apprentice.  If that happens, I'll be glad to administer the beating personally.

Although I cannot accept on-line challenges right now, I will gladly accept all in-person challenges.  I play at Games of Berkeley, in Berkeley, CA, at Friday nights.  Timw, being more of a gambler than I, has set the conditions for his challenge, but they are a little bit too risky for my tastes.  I will play the best out of 10 games (instead of 5, so as to prevent Keeper from winning with a lucky streak), ante anything up to a mox, with no sideboard, against "standard" Keeper.

As soon as people stop saying "It cannot be!  Nothing beats Keeper!" and "How can you suceed when I failed?", I will go into answering specific objections against the deck (Why are there so many 2 of's?  What's up with the counter base and the creature selection?  What about the abyss?  etc.)  But I will leave that for another post, and give you guys some time to think things over.
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Rakso
Guest
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2002, 07:10:15 am »

What the heck is this?

If anyone read "The day Beyond Dominia died" on Star City, this was pretty much the "essay" posted by an alleged MOTL member on BD that got someone sitebanned for excessive bragging. I remember the guy came back a second time to complain to BDers that he'd told on them to the owner of MOTL.

Sometimes this place reminds me too much of Beyond Dominia... all the bullshit on it.

Has anyone noticed I hardly post here?
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Rakso
Guest
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2002, 07:13:21 am »

Sorry... not quite a dig against Zherbus, but against some of the people who've come to be here.

Oh and by the way, I even wrote an article on how to beat Keeper, so it's hardly an issue.

Of course, it's saying that you can beat Keeper AND that Fuck U Blue is a good deck that bothers people...

50% against everything... with Werebears in a non-green deck, etc.?

I'M supposed to believe a braggart like this, and I know I'm going to get flamed because he's going to say I can't keep an open mind maybe?

Been there, done that...
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Rakso
Guest
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2002, 07:16:00 am »

Oh, and at least call it "A Walk To Remember."

It seems a tad more appropriate.
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psyduck
Guest
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2002, 07:18:45 am »

hey, you know what naClhv, i dont think these morons are going to understand. I've played this deck agianst many players such as cf, and axemurder has played agianst this, and everyone generally agrees that this is a quite a fearsome deck.
rakso, i was trying to msg you....
Anyways, I dont think you can speak to legend normally, he only has a 3-5 second attention span, and will respond by saying "THAT DEK SUCX" or "THATS NOT WHAT I READ IN THE BDOMINIA PRIMER, SO IT MUST SUCK TOO"..
to legend : stfu from now on unless you decide to grow up
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Rakso
Guest
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2002, 07:22:24 am »

Quote from: Nova+July 09 2002,01:27
Quote (Nova @ July 09 2002,01:27)[EDIT]: Me and the much maligned Legend agree on something, I never thought I'd see the day

You had better be joking about the 70% win ratio against keeper.  I think you may have the percentages the other way around.  I say the matchup is closer to 70-30 in favor of the keeper player.  This actually reminds me of back on BD when CooberP wrote in the enchantress primer about HIS win ratio against keeper... needless to say he ended up eating crow over it.  In fact, I'd say if you cut all your win ratios about in half, they'd be much closer (I don't think your deck has a good matchup against any of the tier one and most of the tier 2 decks).  Why run a bunch of 2 ofs?  That screws up your focus so much it's unbelievable....

Maybe I should just calm down...count to 10...and hope you're just mocking RandomMiser with this....

Sorry for what amounts to a flame, but really if you wish to duel me with a "standard" keeper 10 games or so and I don't win at least half I'll renounce my statement publicly.  I'm rusty with keeper, you might have a chance!

In case you didn't get that:

This is a public challenge to you.  I will use Matt D's Keeper, which is held as the standard and you can use that pile of horse poo you call a deck.  10 games, if you can win 7, hell 5 games against it I will, as I said above, publicly renounce my criticism.  Otherwise don't waste our time by posting decks that don't belong in T1.

-Nova
Quote
Quote You had better be joking about the 70% win ratio against keeper.  I think you may have the percentages the other way around.  I say the matchup is closer to 70-30 in favor of the keeper player.  This actually reminds me of back on BD when CooberP wrote in the enchantress primer about HIS win ratio against keeper... needless to say he ended up eating crow over it.  
Now here's another thing I hate that I really hated back on BD...

Note that the post I'm quoting had ZERO content, a bunch of flames, and a dig at CooberP who I don't think is even on this forum.

What the fuck is this?

Anyone feel like venting testosterone, go to Afghanistan or someplace you'll be useful.

If anything, Coob was more credible. If he "ate crow", it was because he made some mistakes in the draft of his primer that Azhrei and Matt poked fun at him for. There were no real hard feelings, just the usual ribbing, and his primer wasn't half bad, was it?

90% of the people who used to be on BD were the "chorus" I was referring to in my most recent column. That is, people who'll completely exaggerate what 5% say and take extreme positions that aren't objective anymore.

I can't imagine why anyone might pick on CooberP as an example of an annoying braggart who ate crow. I know I can name a better example or two.
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Justin
Guest
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2002, 07:38:01 am »

we should all be thankful we have black mask to hold type 1 together. that is all
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Rakso
Guest
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2002, 07:52:32 am »

Trade you a Gush for your Ancestral...

And it wasn't BLACK Mask damnit...
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Ufactor, the Restricted
Guest
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2002, 08:00:21 am »

here, here...I agree with Rakso that alot of what passes for discussion around here is bullshit.  can we all stop wanking around and talk some serious magic?
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Rakso
Guest
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2002, 08:01:43 am »

Quote
Quote Anyways, I dont think you can speak to legend normally, he only has a 3-5 second attention span, and will respond by saying "THAT DEK SUCX"
Bah, I heard a number of people aren't excited about coming to these forums because half of the threads are attempts to associate deck names with Legend, then justifying things with subtle deck changes that don't end up amounting to anything.

I still have every e-mail he sent me complaining that TurboNevyn=Nevyn, Franchise=Azhrei, Parfait=K-run, Stacker=JP, etc., etc., etc.

I'm really itching to stick Arcane Denial into Psychatog and call it Raksotog from now on...

Whatever makes you think he's going to listen? You complaining only draws more attention to him, which he enjoys?
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Justin
Guest
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2002, 08:25:12 am »

raksotog huh, taps to delete posts? theres alot of chatter here, but i have high hopes for this forum. and it should be BLACK mask, like that jet lee flick i got bootlegged from black rob up at kung fu heroes!

::puts coffee down::
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Rakso
Guest
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2002, 08:29:10 am »

No, no... Rosewater had 5C Mask in mind, not Black Mask.
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