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Author Topic: Stacker 2 decklist  (Read 3424 times)
Superman on Dope
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« on: July 29, 2002, 07:21:28 pm »

I don't think JP's primer draft from Beyond Dominia made it into the MD primers...

Can someone post a recent version with sideboard?

If I remember correctly, Rakso tested against a version with maindeck Winter Orbs in one of his CPB articles.  It didn't have a sb though.
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Razor
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2002, 09:08:42 pm »

Here is one of the files I have archived from bd on the "Stacker" archetype:

[warning, it is long, so consider hitting your "End" key]

Primer -- Stacker by JPMeyer

Beyond Dominia : The Type One Magic Mill : Primer -- Stacker by JPMeyer


By Rakso, Patriarch & Rules Ayatollah (Rakso)  on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 02:45 am:
The Facets of Designing a Type 1 Deck
By JP Meyer (originally posted on Star City)

Yes, I’m yet another Beyond Dominia denizen who’s decided that they need to write an article on Type 1 for Star City. I built Stacker 2, the mono-red Teletubbies deck featured in Darren Di Battista’s last article through a fairly standard system for building Type 1 decks. However, Type 1 decks are built much differently than decks in other formats. I often post decklists at BD that are untuned and a bit sloppy (at the time,) yet are fairly successful in their earliest incarnations as they follow these points:

For reference: Stacker 2: The World’s Strongest Fat Burner

10 Mountain
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
5 Moxen
3 Cursed Scroll
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Grim Monolith
1 Memory Jar
4 Goblin Welder
4 Juggernaut
4 Su-Chi
2 Masticore
1 Karn, Silver Golem
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Blood Moon
1 Wheel of Fortune

SB
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Ghitu Fire
3 Anarchy
3 Keldon Vandals
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Black Vise

The Only Good Artifact Deck Is Academy (TOGADIA)

4 Juggernaut
4 Su-Chi
4 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Mind Twist
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Memory Jar
1 The Abyss
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Stroke of Genius
4 Underground River
2 City of Brass
4 Underground Sea
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus

SB
2 Masticore
1 Karn, Silver Golem
2 Misdirection
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Annul
1 Icy Manipulator
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Jester's Cap
2 Gainsay
1 The Abyss

Part 3: Threats

While combo decks are weak in Type 1 due to the restriction of tutor cards and the large number of control decks, most decks in Type 1 have a very pronounced fundamental turn that gives most decks a “combo-esque” feeling. By turn 4, Suicide Black has overwhelmed you, Sligh has burned you out, or Keeper has completely shut down your creatures with The Abyss. This facilitates the need for fast, disruptive, or durable threats. Fast threats are those such as Jackal Pup, Phyrexian Negator (with Dark Ritual,) or Juggernaut (with Mishra’s Workshop.) Each of these cards is capable of doing significant damage before an appropriate answer is found. Disruptive threats are those such as Hypnotic Specter, Gorilla Shaman, and Meddling Mage. These disruptive cards make it more difficult for the opposing player to remove them or to win (whether literally or figuratively.) The last set of threats are durable threats. These are the cards like Morphling, Blastoderm, and Cursed Scroll that allow one to win around an opponent’s defenses.

Stacker 2’s threats attempt to fit into each of these categories. Originally, Teletubbies decks (like TOGADIA) only ran Juggernaut and Su-Chi. Juggernaut and Su-Chi are both fast (when Mishra’s Workshop is used) and are unaffected by The Abyss and to some extent, Powder Keg. However, they die to all artifact removal and many creature removal spells. Goblin Welder is also very easy to kill. However, it is EXTREMELY disruptive. It negates the effects of nearly all non-mass artifact removal by swapping the targeted artifact for a dead one (optimally a used Black Lotus or Memory Jar) and even makes Moxen into must-counters, as they can simply be Weldered into dead creatures. The final main threat is Cursed Scroll. Cursed Scroll allows the deck to win in situations that would normally cause Teletubbies to scoop, the most common being a Moat or Oath of Druids. The fact that TOGADIA has roughly half the threats of Stacker 2 (8 as opposed to 18) is probably what caused Adam Duke’s condemnation of the deck.

Part 2: Bombs

One exciting/frustrating (take your pick) aspect of Type 1 is the ability to completely swing games with one or two cards. “Hymn, Hymn, I win!” can be completely counteracted by using a Mystical Tutor to search for Balance. One of the most common examples that I see on Beyond Dominia of not utilizing bombs is the usage of Price of Progress instead of Blood Moon in Type 1 Sligh decks. PoP is a very powerful card in Extended. Therefore, most believe that this should hold true in Type 1. However, while PoP is dangerous for many decks, Blood Moon is game-winning almost every time if it hits. A turn one PoP does at most two damage. A turn one Blood Moon many times elicits a confession. Blood Moon also lets a Sligh deck win even when cards such as CoP: Red are on the table.

When building Stacker 2, I attempted to include as many bombs as possible. Blood Moon has already been mentioned, but Goblin Welder and Memory Jar, two very powerful cards on their own, become almost game winning when combined. TOGADIA posses a single bomb, The Abyss (I neglect to call Memory Jar a bomb in this deck as it is the ability to recur it that makes it insane in Stacker 2.)

Part 3: Restricted Cards

First off, you cannot simply throw the entire restricted list into a Type 1 deck. Most of the cards simply do not fit into most decks. Good examples of this are cards such as Hurkyl’s Recall, Berserk, and Balance. Hurkyl’s Recall is only useful in Academy. Balance only really works in control decks. Berserk is dead outside of beatdown. All of the cards on the restricted list are there because they are broken in certain situations, but very few of these situations occur regularly. Only a select few, such as Demonic Tutor, Regrowth, and Ancestral Recall are always good. A good rule of thumb involving restricted cards is the amount of play they receive (or received) in Extended. Crop Rotation, Mox Diamond, and Voltaic Key were rarely played in Extended and are also rarely played in Type 1. Demonic Consultation and Necropotence were heavily played in Extended and are also very powerful in Type 1.

The only restricted cards in Stacker 2 are the Moxen, Black Lotus, Strip Mine, Tolarian Academy, Wheel of Fortune, Sol Ring, Grim Monolith, Memory Jar, and Black Vise (sideboarded) for a total of 13 restricted cards, a mere 27% of the restricted list. These cards weren’t included simply because they were restricted, but because they provide extremely powerful effects within the deck. The mana artifacts are need to allow the deck to cast a 4cc artifact creature on the first turn. Adam’s Teletubbies deck also utilized only the best restricted cards in his colors without adding extraneous or sub-optimal ones. We also left out other powerful mana-producing artifacts, such as Thran Dynamo and the restricted Mox Diamond, Mana Vault, Voltaic Key, and Lotus Petal. This follows into part 2.

Part 4: Mana

Nearly every Magic player understands the concept of the mana curve. The mana curves in Type 1 decks aren’t so concrete. The prevalence of Moxen and other strong mana artifacts allow for strange mana curves. Take the mana curve for Stacker 2:

0cc-6
1cc-16
2cc-1
3cc-5
4cc-10
5cc-2

A mana curve like that in any other format would be insane. The effects of Mishra’s Workshop and mana artifacts allow for the large holes at every point but 1cc and 4cc. The subtly different mana for Teletubbies actually makes it significantly worse. The 10 additional Wasteland-able lands (over Stacker 2) make it a reality that the deck may have its first non-Workshop land Wasted and delay the deployment of an artifact creature to turn 3. It also makes Back to Basics go from a backbreaker IN the deck to a backbreaker AGAINST the deck.

This article came about almost primarily from the last bit of Darren Di Battista’s article. Any idea you have for a Type 1 deck will work if you work at it enough and use the proper parameters. Hey, it turned a deck that I have seen scorn for matched only by Dan Paskin’s dislike for Ponza into one of the more feared decks on BD. I truly believe that the reason that so many people are turned off by Type 1 is not by the expensive cards, but by the fact that they simply are applying the rules that hold true in the other constructed formats because they don’t know any better.

--JP Meyer
jpmeyer@optonline.net  
jpmeyer on IRC
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kirdape3
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2002, 09:27:40 pm »

That's an old list, and the new ones take out Blood Moon for the Welder-friendly Winter Orb.  Also, Chain Lightning is Incinerate to deal with annoying random River Boas and the like.
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Red5
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2002, 12:38:45 am »

Here's what I've been playing lately.  I piloted it to 2nd place in a 32 person tourny a few weeks ago.  Losing to a U/G oath deck in the finals.

Artifact beats: (11)
4 Su Chi
4 Juggernaut
2 Masticore
1 Karn

Red: (16)
4 Goblin Welder
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Incinerate
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Dwarven Miner
1 Wheel of Fortune

Artifact Utility: (4)
3 Cursed Scroll
1 Memory Jar

Mana: (29)
5 Moxes
1 Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Grim Monolith
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
2 Wastelands (only 2 because of the 2 maindeck Miners)
4 Mishra's Workshop
13 Mountain

Sideboard: (15)
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Dwarven Miner
4 REB
2 Pyroblast
2 Covetous Dragon
2 Shattering Pulse
3 Guerrilla Tactics

If I felt Moat was going to be a problem I would drop the Shaman, the Miner, and a Pyroblast so that I could add three Anarchy to the side.  I hope this helps.

Nic
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Superman on Dope
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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2002, 10:05:12 am »

Thanks guys.

Now that even Stacker doesn't run Blood Moon, how many decks still actually run that hoser anyways?  UR Forbiddian I guess, and oh wait, Milton's Keeper!  How could I forget.
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Superman on Dope
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2002, 02:12:03 pm »

Aight, so Worbs are used now for their synergy, and Incinerate > Chain Lightning.  Got that.

How has the sideboard changed?  Were the Blood Moons moved there or were they removed altogether?  And I've seen many sideboards running Jester's Cap.  Is this standard, or a metagame choice?  
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jpmeyer
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badplayermeyer
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2002, 04:36:18 pm »

My "random metagame" sideboard is:

4 REB
4 Urza's Rage
3 Anarchy
2 Masticore (to go up to 4)
1 Cursed Scroll (to go up to 4)
1 Winter Orb (to go up to 4)

You can then futz with that based on maindeck card totals and metagame expectations.
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walking dude
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2002, 05:40:40 pm »

What would be your hard core control metagame sideboard ala NG?
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jpmeyer
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2002, 07:57:00 pm »

I would cut the Masticores and a Karn from the maindeck and add 3 Gorilla Shamans.  I then might maindeck some REBS.  If I wanted to just beat Keeper and forget BBS I would turn the Winter Orbs into Blood Moons.  The sideboard would then probably become something like:

4 Masticore
3 OPEN SLOT
3 Pyroblast
3 Anarchy
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Blood Moon
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Cuandoman
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2002, 11:19:46 pm »

Funker could use Bloodmoon main. It's actually quite good.
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FatherHell
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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2002, 11:26:20 pm »

Funker runs all nonbasics though, I would kill many of the cards in the deck. It used to run a lone Nether Void...dont see that anymore though.

You must mean Stacker2\n\n

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Cuandoman
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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2002, 11:52:37 pm »

No, I mean Funker. It's red based....

Jet's version plays it main and can operate quite well under it.
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42up
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« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2002, 12:03:40 am »

Quote from: Cuandoman+Aug. 01 2002,00:52
Quote (Cuandoman @ Aug. 01 2002,00:52)No, I mean Funker. I'ts red based....
no actually funker's mana base looks more like this-

7 solomoxen
1 grim monolith
1 mana vault
1 tolarian academy
1 library of alexandria
1 strip mine
4 city of brass
4 wasteland
4 badlands
4 volcanic island

Blood moon would really wreck it.

while it is red and artifact based....you would be losing all your black tutors, mind twist, yawgmoth's will and all your blue power/drawers/tutors and other stuff.
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jpmeyer
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badplayermeyer
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« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2002, 12:05:31 am »

Funker runs all non-basics, but it's both red-based and artifact-heavy, meaning that it doesn't cripple itself with Blood Moon, although it shuts off its off-color cards.
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Cuandoman
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« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2002, 12:10:13 am »

Which is a small price to pay against Keeper who, in game 1 (before BEB / Aura Fracture) has a whole 1 card that can deal with the moon and can't do so without white mana available.

Heck then you just smash their face
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Jet
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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2002, 07:14:53 pm »

Blood moon does kinda hurt funker, but it's a red/colorless based deck with U/b splash. So it doesn't lose much relitivly by restricting its off color mana to moxes. Compared to keeper or any other non-red based 4-5c deck.

It's not ment to be a one sided hoser, its ment to lock the 5c color player out of the game while allowing you to continue to play threats. after all, you have untill they get pearl+D-blow to win.
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